Issues with Testosterone Cream -- anyone else?

[Joe Sixpack]

I've been doing 1 click (50 mg) for about 5-6 weeks now, applied to scrotum. Tested total T only about 2 weeks ago and it was at 740. I FEEL better overall on the cream, with one major caveat that's popped up in the last couple weeks. I started getting softer erections and reduced penile sensitivity, along with getting a bit "sloshy" around the middle. I haven't tested e2 yet, but I've been at this long enough to know that's the first thing that happens when my e2 goes up. Im pretty sensitive to e2, and if it gets up in the high 30s or higher I don't do well. Last time I had sex i couldn't finish because of lack of sensitivity (got a good cardio session in and plowed my wife a new one, so at least that's a positive). I also haven't fared well in the past with higher T levels because it tends to aggravate pre existing anxiety, which has been much better on the cream. Im determined to get the cream to work, and I may switch spots or reduce the dose. We ll see..........

Were you on injections before you were on cream? Cream has the reputation of converting more easily into E2. I am always low on E2, which is why I reduced my injections and added the cream. I needed the extra E2. For you though, the extra conversion to E2 may not be working in your favor.

 

[TLR]

Were you on injections before you were on cream? Cream has the reputation of converting more easily into E2. I am always low on E2, which is why I reduced my injections and added the cream. I needed the extra E2. For you though, the extra conversion to E2 may not be working in your favor.

Yeah, been on injections for 9 years. Tried the cream before but I was prescribed 1/2 gram twice daily (200 mg). That lasted 4-5 days and I couldn't tolerate that shit. Flushed, headache, overstimulated and felt like shit. Did more research and decided to go again at 1 click a day. I've researched the hell out of it and there's a school of thought to go higher with the dose so the androgen load basically "cancels" out the effects of the elevated e2, but one, that doesn't sound "healthy" over the long term to me, and two, from my past experience I don't think I would tolerate that well. Its frustrating because for a few weeks there it was like "wow," but then this popped up after it settled in. I ll probably go down to 25 mg and see what happens. From the androforte study it looks like I would still hit midrange and maybe it will knock the e2 down. Im pretty much a less is more guy in this realm so we will see.

 

[Abuser200]

I feel the same! I notice my libido and extra firm erections with cream (I’m assuming the DHT elevated helps) added into my protocol of injections which are 3x a week. Cream 25mg am 1x day. Initially they had me only adding cream 2-3x a week (scrotal application) but ea day made the difference overall best I’ve felt on trt (curious what your cream mg is ea day)

How many mg’s do you inject 3x week? And how is your total and free T?

 

[engineer]

From my understanding, creams applied transscotaly usually result in less E2 conversion.

Could you please elaborate more on this?

I have been on several protocols using injections and my E2 have always had to be controlled by AIs to manage symptoms.

Upon changing my protocol to T cream on my shoulders, E2 was undetected (TT=400s). Then started to apply 150mg to my belly, my E2 sensitive went to 6 (TT=600s) and upon applying 100mg to scrotum, E2 increased to 10 (TT =1400s, FT=48). Of course I have been having low E2 symptoms: ED even with cialis and viagra, upon increasing the dose of these, ED gets a little better but sensibility is null...

Anyways, what’s going on? I used HCG a couple of times with OK results. You are the only person who said what matches my symptoms and labs. Do I have to add injections back to get some E2 going??

thanks!!

 

[Gman86]

Could you please elaborate more on this?

I have been on several protocols using injections and my E2 have always had to be controlled by AIs to manage symptoms.

Upon changing my protocol to T cream on my shoulders, E2 was undetected (TT=400s). Then started to apply 150mg to my belly, my E2 sensitive went to 6 (TT=600s) and upon applying 100mg to scrotum, E2 increased to 10 (TT =1400s, FT=48). Of course I have been having low E2 symptoms: ED even with cialis and viagra, upon increasing the dose of these, ED gets a little better but sensibility is null...

Anyways, what’s going on? I used HCG a couple of times with OK results. You are the only person who said what matches my symptoms and labs. Do I have to add injections back to get some E2 going??

thanks!!

So I’m not sure I even agree with what I said anymore lol. My experience with transscrotal cream was that my E2 was pretty damn high while using it. E2 sensitize was 79, and non sensitive was 88. Total T was 1680. Free T 398 (46.0-224.0). With injections, and having a similar total T of 1687, and free T of 238 (46.0-224.0), my E2 sensitive was 73, and non sensitive was 59. I was also using HCG at 800iu’s/ week. So for me, it seems that it’s the opposite of what I said. E2 conversion seems higher. But my free T was much higher on the cream, and I’ve heard that E2 conversion happens peripherally in the tissue, and if that’s the case, free T is what would be converting into E2, not the total T. So would make sense that my E2 would be higher on the cream, due to the creams producing much higher free T levels, in most guys, relative to their total T. Idk, it’s all so complicated lol.

Bur one thing I know for 100% certainty, is that transscrotal cream will sky rocket ur DHT, and DHT absolutely inhibits E2. It might not inhibit ur serum number on a lab test, but it for sure inhibits E2 at the receptor level. It’s basically like an ai. It will reduce E2’s effects somewhere along the lines. I’m assuming at the receptors. Or maybe it’s conversion at the tissue/ cellular level. I’m really not the best with the deep science of it. I just know that DHT and E2 oppose eachother. So the higher ur DHT, the less the E2 in your system is going to be effective.

 

[engineer]

So I’m not sure I even agree with what I said anymore lol. My experience with transscrotal cream was that my E2 was pretty damn high while using it. E2 sensitize was 79, and non sensitive was 88. Total T was 1680. Free T 398 (46.0-224.0). With injections, and having a similar total T of 1687, and free T of 238 (46.0-224.0), my E2 sensitive was 73, and non sensitive was 59. I was also using HCG at 800iu’s/ week. So for me, it seems that it’s the opposite of what I said. E2 conversion seems higher. But my free T was much higher on the cream, and I’ve heard that E2 conversion happens peripherally in the tissue, and if that’s the case, free T is what would be converting into E2, not the total T. So would make sense that my E2 would be higher on the cream, due to the creams producing much higher free T levels, in most guys, relative to their total T. Idk, it’s all so complicated lol.

Bur one thing I know for 100% certainty, is that transscrotal cream will sky rocket ur DHT, and DHT absolutely inhibits E2. It might not inhibit ur serum number on a lab test, but it for sure inhibits E2 at the receptor level. It’s basically like an ai. It will reduce E2’s effects somewhere along the lines. I’m assuming at the receptors. Or maybe it’s conversion at the tissue/ cellular level. I’m really not the best with the deep science of it. I just know that DHT and E2 oppose eachother. So the higher ur DHT, the less the E2 in your system is going to be effective.

You may be onto something about the DHT vs E2 on the cream. I am still struggling with low E2 unless I use HCG which is almost impossible to dial in. I have a consult with Defy in about 2 weeks... hopefully they can figure something out like adding Tcyp for example. Let’s see...

Thanks for your answer!

 

[Gman86]

You may be onto something about the DHT vs E2 on the cream. I am still struggling with low E2 unless I use HCG which is almost impossible to dial in. I have a consult with Defy in about 2 weeks... hopefully they can figure something out like adding Tcyp for example. Let’s see...

Thanks for your answer!

Anytime. Ya I’ve been on HRT for 6-7 years, and with Defy for about 3-4 years. I recently took a different approach to dialing in E2. I am using nandrolone as my base, which produces very low amounts of E2. Some say it aromatizes 20% the rate of testosterone, but from what I’ve seen, it’s much less than that. So with my base of nandrolone alone, my E2 would be basically nothing. The way I’m dialing E2 in is, I’m using low dose test and low dose HCG to boost up E2. Started off with 42mg of test/ week, and 525iu’s of HCG/ week. I currently feel pretty good, but feel like E2 is on the low side. Just had my sensitive E2 drawn yesterday. After getting my E2 done, I came home and injected. I bumped up my test dose to 63mg/ week, and HCG to 625iu’s/ week. Depending on where my E2 comes back, I may bump up my doses a bit more. Nandrolone is going to remain constant. To dial in, I’ll only be titrating my test and HCG doses. But this time I want to go slow and dial in based off of how I feel subjectively. Putting little weight in labs this time around. Only had E2 tested to see if it was low, or very low. So unless E2 comes back very low, I’ll probably ride things out for a while on the dose adjustments I made yesterday.

 

[engineer]

Anytime. Ya I’ve been on HRT for 6-7 years, and with Defy for about 3-4 years. I recently took a different approach to dialing in E2. I am using nandrolone as my base, which produces very low amounts of E2. Some say it aromatizes 20% the rate of testosterone, but from what I’ve seen, it’s much less than that. So with my base of nandrolone alone, my E2 would be basically nothing. The way I’m dialing E2 in is, I’m using low dose test and low dose HCG to boost up E2. Started off with 42mg of test/ week, and 525iu’s of HCG/ week. I currently feel pretty good, but feel like E2 is on the low side. Just had my sensitive E2 drawn yesterday. After getting my E2 done, I came home and injected. I bumped up my test dose to 63mg/ week, and HCG to 625iu’s/ week. Depending on where my E2 comes back, I may bump up my doses a bit more. Nandrolone is going to remain constant. To dial in, I’ll only be titrating my test and HCG doses. But this time I want to go slow and dial in based off of how I feel subjectively. Putting little weight in labs this time around. Only had E2 tested to see if it was low, or very low. So unless E2 comes back very low, I’ll probably ride things out for a while on the dose adjustments I made yesterday.

That’s a clever solution. I will discuss that with Dr. Saya... or maybe, since I barely aromatize on the cream, use the cream as a base and titrate Tcyp and HCG. Or even use Oxandrolone as a base (which I am prescribed for a wasting problem on my leg due to a spinal chord injury) instead of nandrolone (Dr. Saya preferred time Rx Oxandrolone rather than nandrolone to me due to ED problems...)

 

[Gman86]

That’s a clever solution. I will discuss that with Dr. Saya... or maybe, since I barely aromatize on the cream, use the cream as a base and titrate Tcyp and HCG. Or even use Oxandrolone as a base (which I am prescribed for a wasting problem on my leg due to a spinal chord injury) instead of nandrolone (Dr. Saya preferred time Rx Oxandrolone rather than nandrolone to me due to ED problems...)

Ya I don’t know enough about oxandrolone to know whether it can work as a base or not. But using the cream as a base, and raising E2 with either test or HCG, or both, sounds like it should theoretically work. Do you mind if I ask what your oxandrolone dose is? Is it currently part of your HRT protocol?

 

[engineer]

Ya I don’t know enough about oxandrolone to know whether it can work as a base or not. But using the cream as a base, and raising E2 with either test or HCG, or both, sounds like it should theoretically work. Do you mind if I ask what your oxandrolone dose is? Is it currently part of your HRT protocol?

No problem! My oxandrolone dose is 25mg/day and it is part of my HRT protocol ... I mean, Dr. Saya prescribes it but like I said, it is due to a wasting problem on my leg (it wouldn’t be necessary for my TRT)

 

[Gman86]

No problem! My oxandrolone dose is 25mg/day and it is part of my HRT protocol ... I mean, Dr. Saya prescribes it but like I said, it is due to a wasting problem on my leg (it wouldn’t be necessary for my TRT)

Ive been looking into Oxandrolone for a while now, but at much lower doses. Like 5-10mg. How’s the 25mg effected ur lipids/ liver enzymes?

 

[engineer]

Ive been looking into Oxandrolone for a while now, but at much lower doses. Like 5-10mg. How’s the 25mg effected ur lipids/ liver enzymes?

I take 25mg to try to maintain the muscle mass on one of my legs. Honestly I would need a higher dose but at 25mg/day, it only tanks my HDL cholesterol. My liver enzymes are not affected much if at all so at the doses you mentioned, I would think that the side-effects would be very mild ... although as you know, each person reacts differently to these meds

 

[SSHSSA74]

BTW, adding cream into the mix made a DRAMATIC improvement for me. I encourage you to give it a try.

Joe, what is your SHBG?

 

[Joe Sixpack]

Joe, what is your SHBG?

61.8 Pretty high

 

[SSHSSA74]

61.8 Pretty high

Ten 4. Yep. Thanks.