IS THIS LOW FREE T

[RotnGun]

So what do you figure is the cause of dementia and alzheimers disease?

 

[Seagal]

High guys. So I got my recent blood tests back from Endo.

He says my levels are fine but wanted to run through this forum to see if he's talking BS.

TT is 18.2 nmol/L or 525 ng/dL
FT is 0.25 nmol/ L or 7 ng/dL

I have got high SHBG which is at 62 nmol/L


Symptoms are....
No libido
No drive in life
Low mood
Anxiety has reduced a lot over the last few months.

Supplement stack...creatine, collegen with biotin, folinic acid(have COMT) hydroxy B12(have MTHFR) vit d3 with k2 4000iu

Diet is mostly animal based so beef patties, lots of eggs, avacados, feta cheese, chicken breast, sweet patatoes, natural yoghurt ans nuts, etc.


I would love to get people's Thoughts and there experiences with high shbg and low FT That's if mine is low.

I think I have tried almost everything to lower it and raise it so any input would be great thanks in advance

You could try boron supplementation to lower SHBG.

Comparative effects of daily and weekly boron supplementation on plasma steroid hormones and proinflammatory cytokines - PubMed

Boron possesses widespread properties in biochemistry and nutrition. Acute supplementation with 11.6 mg of boron resulted in a significant increase in plasma boron concentration. Given such a fast bioavailability, the objective was to determine whether acute (hourly or daily), and weekly...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Systemlord]

So what do you figure is the cause of dementia and alzheimers disease?

Thanks to the processed food companies, and all the brainwashing of Americans to not eat red meat, it’s the western diet propagated by the big food corporations.

The Seventh-day Adventist Church spews its beliefs, and propaganda, eat vegan, eat more of our products and genetically engineered crops, don’t eat red meat because it’ll cause heart disease, and link flawed fraudulent studies to prove their case.

The statin drug manufacturers did the same thing, linked fraudulent studies and hid the actual data at the Oxford University, for which only a select few, had access and couldn’t talk about it publicly due to signing a clause.

 

[whiting1986]

It seems your are on a very low carb diet. You could try adding more carbs your diet. Or having at least one reload day per week. Long-term keto / very low carb diet can have detrimental impact on SHGB and Thyroid, that is, elevated SHGB with lower free sex hormones and decreased levels of the active thyroid hormone T3.
If you try this, please let us know whether it helped with your symptoms.

You could try boron supplementation to lower SHBG.

Comparative effects of daily and weekly boron supplementation on plasma steroid hormones and proinflammatory cytokines - PubMed

Boron possesses widespread properties in biochemistry and nutrition. Acute supplementation with 11.6 mg of boron resulted in a significant increase in plasma boron concentration. Given such a fast bioavailability, the objective was to determine whether acute (hourly or daily), and weekly...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Currently taking. It hasn't touched the sides, tried tongkat ali, fadogia agrestis, turkesterone.

Still the same numbers between 61/62 nmol/l

 

[Seagal]

Currently taking. It hasn't touched the sides, tried tongkat ali, fadogia agrestis, turkesterone.

Still the same numbers between 61/62 nmol/l

If you do not feel any better after two weeks of daily 10mg boron, then I would ditch it.
Do you have any chronic diseases and/or take any medications?
Are you doing any sports?
For how long have you been on your current diet, and since when do you have the symptoms?

 

[whiting1986]

No chronic diseases, no medication.

Exercise every day just about.had the symptoms for a while to be honest.

Current diet about 3/4 months.


But over the last few years I have had high SHBG ans low FT doesn't matter what I try.

Tongkat, fadogia, boron,

It's just a pain in the ass

 

[Seagal]

No chronic diseases, no medication.

Exercise every day just about.had the symptoms for a while to be honest.

Current diet about 3/4 months.


But over the last few years I have had high SHBG ans low FT doesn't matter what I try.

Tongkat, fadogia, boron,

It's just a pain in the ass

Guess you tried everything, including taking a break from everyday exercise (possible overtraining).
I think many men can resolve those symptoms with TRT. In your case I find the high SHBG strange. Like something is hitting the brakes (stress, smoking, alcohol, liver disease).

 

[whiting1986]

I don't smoke , don't touch alcohol, maybe some stress but who doesn't in this modern world. Had bloods done for liver also and everything come back fine.

Hopefully I can get to the bottom of it.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I don't smoke , don't touch alcohol, maybe some stress but who doesn't in this modern world. Had bloods done for liver also and everything come back fine.

Hopefully I can get to the bottom of it.

What if you just ate too much estrogenic plastic when you were a kid? I wouldn't say stop being curious, but don't let it stop you from taking some action.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of T responsible for the positive effects.

Need to have your FT tested using an accurate assay, especially in cases of altered SHBG to know where it truly sits.

This is not done yet.

Much more to come!

Testosterone Assays

Testosterone Assays (2022) Brendan King, MD, Caleb Natale, MD, Wayne J.G. Hellstrom, MD The accurate detection and quantification of serum testosterone levels are necessary for the diagnosis of hypogonadism in men, evaluation of endocrine abnormalities, and monitoring and titration of...

www.excelmale.com

post #11

Direct Measurements of Free Hormones Using Mass Spectrometry-Based Methods

Only at Excel, are we gonna take you deep! Clinical Utility and Analytical Aspects of Direct Measurements of Free Hormones Using Mass Spectrometry-Based Methods (2022) Mark M. Kushnir, Heather A. Nelson, and Kelly Doyle Background The free hormone (FH) hypothesis states that hormone...

www.excelmale.com

*Equilibrium dialysis (ED) followed by LC-MS/MS is considered the gold standard methodology

*FH concentrations measured by UF-based methods often do not agree with ED-based methods because of UF conditions (temperature, time, centrifugation speed), the type of the UF device (MWC membrane material, material of the of the housing, seal around the membrane, etc.), and inconsistencies in the filtration rate. Therefore, reference intervals are typically not interchangeable across methods for measurement of the same FH

CDC STANDARDIZED TOTAL T and ESTRADIOL ASSAYS and soon to be FREE TESTOSTERONE!

How the CDC Clinical Standardization Programs Are Improving Hormone Tests - AACC.org WHAT PROGRESS HAS CDC MADE WITH STANDARDIZING TOTAL TESTOSTERONE AND ESTRADIOL TESTS? Since HoSt began in 2010, CDC has had more than 350 participants in 15 countries. Participants have shown measurable...

www.excelmale.com

Key Points:

* Limitations of using free testosterone by equilibrium dialysis and calculated free testosterone concentrations in practice are the lack of assay standardization, an accuracy-based quality control program, and a harmonized reference range. Until these limitations are addressed, free testosterone by equilibrium dialysis and calculated free testosterone should use reference ranges established by individual laboratories or their specific assay method

*Currently, the CDC is developing a harmonized method for free T based on calculated free T using REVISED FORMULAE. This may bring the measurement of free T to a referable standard in clinical laboratories and common reference intervals that all clinicians can use

*Assays that are standardized are designed to provide accurate results, traceable to “true” value-assigned certified reference materials and gold-standard reference methods. Results obtained using standardized methods can be compared across assays, institutions, populations, and past and future test results, thereby improving diagnosis, treatment, and outcomes of patients




The Need to Harmonize Clinical Laboratory Test Results-----

Laboratory test results are a critical component of patient care. These values help physicians diagnose disease and are critical to developing clinical guidelines that direct treatment options and are instrumental in ongoing efforts to improve and measure the quality of patient care. Most tests report a numeric value for healthcare providers to interpret and the range of numbers reported for a test for a certain condition may vary depending on the method used

Different test methods, however, may report different numeric values for the same condition. Although these test results may be accurate within the context of its own method, this variation can create confusion for physicians and patients. Clinical laboratory test results need to be harmonized so that healthcare providers and the public receive the same numeric result regardless of the method or instrument used or the setting where it was performed

Reference Intervals for Free Testosterone in Adult Men Measured Using a Standardized Equilibrium Dialysis Procedure

Again you heard it here first only at Nelson's ExcelMale! @Nelson Vergel Was going to drop this bomb a few days ago but you let down the curtains early LOL! https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/andr.13310 Reference Intervals for Free Testosterone in Adult Men Measured Using a...

www.excelmale.com

You know, though, that doctors who don't understand the different assays will just give a patient a lab slip. Yes, in the US, Quest and LabCorp use the more accurate test but there are probably small independent labs or even hospital labs that don't utilize it. Outside the US, I don't know. Throughout the EU and Australia, some men are just lucky to find any doctor to prescribe T, even if it's a sub par protocol.

 

[Seagal]

You know, though, that doctors who don't understand the different assays will just give a patient a lab slip. Yes, in the US, Quest and LabCorp use the more accurate test but there are probably small independent labs or even hospital labs that don't utilize it. Outside the US, I don't know. Throughout the EU and Australia, some men are just lucky to find any doctor to prescribe T, even if it's a sub par protocol.

I only got TT measured. MD: 'All Fine'. I trusted them and took the antidepressants. 5 years later, I figured out that there are salvia testosterone home tests. Yes, it was low. Went to GP and asked for T test. 'Oh, it's really low...'. That's how it works here, unfortunately. Could have saved me years of suffering.
Thus I only got TRT once I was significantly below the threshold.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

What if you just ate too much estrogenic plastic when you were a kid? I wouldn't say stop being curious, but don't let it stop you from taking some action.

Just quickly looking, it seems that high carbs lowers SHBG, at least in women. Daily, I consume several tablespoons of sugar(Ray Peat PhD and Matt Stone/180 Degree Health). My SHBG went from 43 to 22 and I went from pre-diabetic to normal fasting and post prandial blood glucose(mid 70s to mid 90s). I don't dispute that for some, low carb/keto/carnivore has improved health. If it works and you feel good, that's all that matters!

I know I'll be strongly criticized for all the sugar I consume but nothing else normalized my blood sugar like sugar! Matt Stone, particularly and repeatedly, says sugar and all carbs, lower stress hormones. I am awash in stress hormones/fight or flight, for years. I wish I could say that I've also experienced a reboot of sleep and sexual function by quieting the sympathetic nervous system. Not yet. Going to stop testosterone for about a month or longer and perhaps restart at 60 or 70 mg, weekly.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

I only got TT measured. MD: 'All Fine'. I trusted them and took the antidepressants. 5 years later, I figured out that there are salvia testosterone home tests. Yes, it was low. Went to GP and asked for T test. 'Oh, it's really low...'. That's how it works here, unfortunately. Could have saved me years of suffering.
Thus I only got TRT once I was significantly below the threshold.

Doctors will eff up a patient, not knowing how to help them, then the patient has to crawl in nearly dead before the doctor realizes that something is really wrong. I sometimes think we all need to retain a lawyer and bring them with us to our medical appointments. Or, go to law school.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Daily, I consume several tablespoons of sugar(Ray Peat PhD and Matt Stone/180 Degree Health).

I do the same thing, except it comes in a colorful package with a bunch of micronutrients, electrolytes, and does not cause the same inflammation that sugar alone can cause.

 

[Systemlord]

Thanks to the processed food companies, and all the brainwashing of Americans to not eat red meat, it’s the western diet propagated by the big food corporations.

The Seventh-day Adventist Church spews its beliefs, and propaganda, eat vegan, eat more of our products and genetically engineered crops, don’t eat red meat because it’ll cause heart disease, and link flawed fraudulent studies to prove their case.

The statin drug manufacturers did the same thing, linked fraudulent studies and hid the actual data at the Oxford University, for which only a select few, had access and couldn’t talk about it publicly due to signing a clause.

I wanted to add, Hong Kong has one of the highest meat consumption per capita in the world at 664g per day, equivalent to two pieces of 10-oz steak.

Hong Kong consistently topped global longevity surveys.

In recent years due to the pandemic and civil unrest, that might change.

 

[whiting1986]

So much great info on the post so thanks guys.

About 2 year ago I was high carbs low fat and still had 61 nmol/l.


I am going to give testo gel a go and see if I can shift that free t up some and lower shbg.

I don't want to have super physiological levels so it's a good starting point.

Thanks every one

 

[jnde207]

High guys. So I got my recent blood tests back from Endo.

He says my levels are fine but wanted to run through this forum to see if he's talking BS.

TT is 18.2 nmol/L or 525 ng/dL
FT is 0.25 nmol/ L or 7 ng/dL

I have got high SHBG which is at 62 nmol/L


Symptoms are....
No libido
No drive in life
Low mood
Anxiety has reduced a lot over the last few months.

Supplement stack...creatine, collegen with biotin, folinic acid(have COMT) hydroxy B12(have MTHFR) vit d3 with k2 4000iu

Diet is mostly animal based so beef patties, lots of eggs, avacados, feta cheese, chicken breast, sweet patatoes, natural yoghurt ans nuts, etc.


I would love to get people's Thoughts and there experiences with high shbg and low FT That's if mine is low.

I think I have tried almost everything to lower it and raise it so any input would be great thanks in advance

That's on the low side, but what's funny is the guys in here that're running 1,000 and up will say, "that's perfect", don't ask me why they'll tell you that but if it was them running around 500 they'd be just as upset as you are, so I would find a way to start TRT ASAP. Any guy in his right mind would, and you'll feel 100% better.
I don't do bloodwork but once in a blue moon (only if I feel really bad for about a week), I started low dose TRT and worked up till I felt a lil better than what you would think "normal" would feel like, and adjust as I go along, cause obviously the longer you're on it, the more you'll need, to reach that feeling.
My dose is test E 200mg/wk and one shot of test P 100mg 3 days before my next test E dose (so I don't get that drop on the last day or two of test E)....
I'm gathering up some test P so I can go straight test P every Mon/Wed/Fri, (I know that's a lot of pinning but I'm one of those guys that don't mind it) and run with anadrol 50mg/day to get a lil more mass back on me, I got really sick this last flu season then hit with strep and dropped a lot of weight from not being able to eat properly, then I'll get back on my test E and test P "normal" dose.
Btw what's your estrogen levels at, or did they even check it for you?

 

[jnde207]

So much great info on the post so thanks guys.

About 2 year ago I was high carbs low fat and still had 61 nmol/l.


I am going to give testo gel a go and see if I can shift that free t up some and lower shbg.

I don't want to have super physiological levels so it's a good starting point.

Thanks every one

If you give the gel a try that's up to you, but just a heads up, it can be unstable, as in the exact mg is never the same in each application.
Just be careful with it is all I'm saying.
Not sure if they found a way to correct it but it was causing heart issues when it first became a thing.
I won't take anything but injectables (and orals but that's another topic, lol), and I actually prefer 10-1ml ampoules instead of the 10ml vial, I'm crazy I know, lol, but I've used it all and that's the best thing for me, and tbh I HATED the 1ml glass ampoules, I was scared I would get glass in my syringe if I didn't use a needle filter, but that's unnecessary, it never breaks small enough to go into a 23ga needle, even if it blows up in your hand while opening it, but either way I switch the needle to a 25ga (less scar tissue, so I don't have to change pin sites as often), so if anything came in, it's not getting back out, lol.

 

[whiting1986]

That's on the low side, but what's funny is the guys in here that're running 1,000 and up will say, "that's perfect", don't ask me why they'll tell you that but if it was them running around 500 they'd be just as upset as you are, so I would find a way to start TRT ASAP. Any guy in his right mind would, and you'll feel 100% better.
I don't do bloodwork but once in a blue moon (only if I feel really bad for about a week), I started low dose TRT and worked up till I felt a lil better than what you would think "normal" would feel like, and adjust as I go along, cause obviously the longer you're on it, the more you'll need, to reach that feeling.
My dose is test E 200mg/wk and one shot of test P 100mg 3 days before my next test E dose (so I don't get that drop on the last day or two of test E)....
I'm gathering up some test P so I can go straight test P every Mon/Wed/Fri, (I know that's a lot of pinning but I'm one of those guys that don't mind it) and run with anadrol 50mg/day to get a lil more mass back on me, I got really sick this last flu season then hit with strep and dropped a lot of weight from not being able to eat properly, then I'll get back on my test E and test P "normal" dose.
Btw what's your estrogen levels at, or did they even check it for you?

My Oestradiol was sitting at 58 pmol/l with the range being 50 -220.

So on the lower side really

 

[jnde207]

My Oestradiol was sitting at 58 pmol/l with the range being 50 -220.

So on the lower side really

Low estrogen (e2) will also make you feel horrible, I've experienced it, now I know what and how females feel when they hit menopause, it's wild, lol.
But it seems yours is low because it's following your testosterone levels, which are fairly low in my opinion.
If you raise your test levels then your e2 levels will follow because there's more test to aromatize into e2.
So atleast you know your system is working properly at aromatization.
I believe once you take some test, and if I was you I'd start at 200-250mg/wk (test E or test C injections only, no gel or pills or foams or whatever else they have out now days), and I think you'll be super excited with the results, you'll definitely feel quite a few years younger.
Now tbh about the other stuff you're taking, unless you need it for a disorder, I would stop taking all that mess, cause it's just gonna make you feel blah because of the upset stomach all the time, and if you're in good health already, then you really don't need it tbh.
Now if you're working out everyday, take a whey protein drink it'll feed your muscles, etc. but I don't think you're looking to do all the working out (bodybuilding), you just wanna feel better like I did when I was in your shoes.
Just run test injections and keep an eye on your e2 levels and you'll do just fine man.
My #1 rule is, "keep it simple".
Good luck with everything, be safe, and obviously if you have any questions, feel free to ask, no matter how crazy you might think it sounds, I'm sure we've heard it all by now, lol.