Is HCG necessary on testosterone replacement ?

[JQ88]

Is HCG Always Needed with Testosterone Replacement?

It's just so frustrating man.

Anastrozole takes my e2 too low every ****ing time.

But if I don't take it at all my estrogen climbs too high.

So what the **** should I do??

 

[Loki]

It's just so frustrating man.

Anastrozole takes my e2 too low every ****ing time.

But if I don't take it at all my estrogen climbs too high.

So what the **** should I do??

Have you ever tried Daily Gel/Cream application and daily HCG?

 

[JQ88]

I did but did not give the boost of an injection.

I suppose could cut tabs smaller or get liquidex I just need a touch.

 

[ERO]

If you get it from a compounding pharmacy you can get it any strength you want. I used to get it in 0.15mg capsules and you can get lower than that, like 0.125mg. Trying to cut the 1mg capsules into tiny slices never works once you try to go past 1/4.

Call Defy Medical and get it from them.

 

[JQ88]

Ero,

How do I know how much I need?

I'm on 50mg of Tcyp every three days.

I went a week without Adex and estrogen was definitely creeping up.

Took a .25 Adex and after one day was too low again.

So maybe I answered my own question.

Maybe I can try .125 once a week.

If it takes me too low I could ditch it all together and go with zinc and dim or something.

 

[ERO]

You do need to experiment, but in your case you already know that you need only a very tiny amount. Be sure to wait at least 4 weeks on any change and don't change any other variables (or else you wont know what is working or not working), then get an ultra sensitive E2 test. See how you feel as well, don't try to make your E2 hit a certain number. I personally don't need any AI even at larger T doses - you may not need any AI, either. Only time and testing will tell.

I would work through Defy Medical on this as they are experts and they wont waste your time or start you out on some weird 'one size fits all' dosing - they use your history to start you out right. Tell them about your AI history and they will start you on a very tiny dose, etc...

 

[JQ88]

Thanks man.

It's just tough because the slightest my e2 moves really effects how I feel.

I've been high e2 before... And I got to be honest... That felt a hell of a lot better than low e2.

Although I looked like a marshmallow.

So it's a difficult balancing act.

And then my mind goes around in circles.

 

[ERO]

I could never find the right AI dose either when I started TRT. But after going to T injections every 3.5 days instead of once a week, I found that I can eliminate an AI altogether. Many guys find they either need none, or at least need a lot less AI after going to a twice weekly protocol as well. You get a more stable level of T, which means a lot less conversion via aromatase to E2.

I bet you will be fine on a very tiny twice weekly dose. Not to sound like a broken record, but Defy is great about this type of thing. (I am not affiliated with them) Far, far better than you will ever get at a regular TRT clinic where everybody gets the same (normally far too large) AI dose and then sent out the door.

 

[JQ88]

Hey Ero,

So I lowered my T dose and my last shot was Thursday afternoon.

As Saturday rolled into sunday my libido was raging.

I wonder if less is more with the T?

I hadn't taken anastrozole since last Sunday and tonight I was getting really bad night sweats like dripping. I could not fall asleep and was literally having a panic attack.

I took .25 Adex.

The night sweats stopped within 15 minutes and I feel myself ready to go to sleep now.

Now of course my fear is that it will take me too low.

 

[ERO]

If I were you I would get some compounded AI from Defy Medical. 0.25 mg is actually a relatively large dose and can easily take you too low. A compounding pharmacy can make very, very low strength capsules - like 0.125 mg or 0.15 mg that will lower your E2 without tanking it.

Personally, 0.25 mg will tank me every time.

 

[JQ88]

Yeah man...

I could have even cut the .25 in half.

And yes... Now I'm too low.

I'm getting closer.

Trial and error.

I believe that 120mg/wk is the perfect dose for me.

Ero, do you think if I split up my injections to 40mg (MWF) I might not need the AI at all?

I like deep IM it's just my preference so it's a very small dose for a 3cc syringe.

Also, as far as OTC's do they do anything? Zinc, grape seed, DIm?

It seems anti aging clinics are using grape seed but it could just be a marketing scheme.

I really appreciate your input man.

My night sweats were so bad last night.

 

[ERO]

If you are already on a twice a week schedule, going to 3 days may make a slight improvement in your E2 levels, but I would expect the difference to be slight. Everybody is different though and it may help. You would need to make no other changes and stick with it for 4-6 weeks and then test to know for sure.

If you can cut the 0.25 in half, I would try that first. DIM works for some guys and not others - usually guys that don't convert much to E2 find it helps, where guys that are huge converters find that they still need a prescription AI like Anastrozole. Same with zinc & grape seed. They are both healthy supplements but E2 control is highly individual and these two supplements typically work for guys that don't convert much to E2 to begin with.

If you can swing it, I would check out Defy Medical. They can compound what you need and they are both easy to work with and the top specialists that one could find.

 

[JQ88]

Hey man thanku.

Just crazy because my night sweats and insomnia went away after Adex... But now I am way too low. Hands are spotty and my joints hurt.

You're so right... .25 is a lot for me.

I probably just need a tiny tiny bit.

But do need it for sure.

 

[CoastWatcher]

What sort of support are you getting from your doctor? It sounds as if you're making these adjustments on your own. A solid relationship with a knowledgeable physician is a cornerstone of a successful TRT protocol.

 

[JQ88]

My "trainer" suggested 60/60 for a month and get labs.

I wanted to do that.

But the night sweats were almost unbearable last night. Could not sleep.

I clearly needed some AI. .25mg was clearly too much.

Why feel like crap for a month just to get a number just to try a low dose Anastrozole?

I am going to need a very low dose AI.
Why delay the inevitable?

Feel like I'm getting closer. I know I need to stick with something. 120mg/wk and .125mg Adex per week sounds about right for me through much trial and error.

I could throw out the Anastrozole and just tough it out I guess. Grape seed doesn't seem to do the trick.

I don't know man.

My doctor put me on 200mg/wk which is too much for me and I want more frequent injections.

I'd love to go to a trt clinic but my insurance covers everything right now.

So yeah...

 

[CoastWatcher]

I'd love to go to a trt clinic but my insurance covers everything right now.

So yeah...

I don't know what your financial situation is, but it's entirely reasonable to assume that a good doctor could have worked with you to sort out your issues and have you balanced within a few weeks. As of now, you seem to be at sea. We spend necessary money, even when we hate doing it, to maintain our homes and cars. But not on our own bodies, for the sake of our health...

 

[JQ88]

I hear you man.

And may go that route.

A lot of knowledge on here and I do feel like I'm heading in the right direction.

I'll post labs as soon as I stick to something.

But patient symptoms and reports way more important than a number as far as e2 is concerned. Everyone is different.

120mg/wk feels right.

Maybe I can hold off on AI if I do 40mg (MWF).

Or maybe .125mg once a week (60/60).

I'm gonna have to see.

Erectile strength is best indicator.

I know it doesn't feel like it but I am getting closer and this forum has been a great resource.

I should probably just tough it out without an AI.

But man crazy night sweats and hot flashes and Insomnia last night like I was PMSing.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

The Use of HCG to Prevent / Reverse Testicular Shrinkage and Preserve Fertility

 

[JQ88]

Hey guys,

Finally got some numbers.

Running 100mg of cyp and .25mg Adex twice a week.

I believe VC used to run this same exact protocol.

Anyway it's still a little up and down.

A bit of a roller coaster.

E2 fluctuates. High and low symptoms from day to day.

Suggestions gentlemen???

TT 678 (249-836)

FT 194 (30-150)

E2 17 (7-49)

This was on a trough day.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Hey guys,

Finally got some numbers.

Running 100mg of cyp and .25mg Adex twice a week.

I believe VC used to run this same exact protocol.

Anyway it's still a little up and down.

A bit of a roller coaster.

E2 fluctuates. High and low symptoms from day to day.

Suggestions gentlemen???

TT 678 (249-836)

FT 194 (30-150)

E2 17 (7-49)

This was on a trough day.

When you write "trough day", did you mean the day prior to an injection? I ask, because the idea of "trough" and "peak" should be minimized with multiple injections. The range on your estradiol lab leads me to ask if you ran the "Sensitive" test (LC, MS/MS)? If you did, your E2 is on the low side; if you ran the Standard test, it is likely your E2 is very, very low (since the standard test overestimates E2 in men).