Though this a thread about Aveed/Nebido, and I'm not trying to hack it, but why is there antipathy to pellet therapy, when the principle behind test undecanoate is similar to pellet implantation? And if one does that off of insurance, or pays extra if covered by insurance, the doctor can place many more pellets. That's all and I apologize for going off topic.
Is Aveed (Nebido outside the US) Long Acting Testosterone Injection The Answer For Men's Low T?
- Thread starter Keith Willse
- Start date
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
Pellets are usually expensive and out-of-pocket, can cause bruising and extrusion and the dosage cannot be titrated or changed once inserted. Some guys love it, so nothing against it.
I had Testopel, once. It was, for me, covered by insurance. Wasn't the solution, unfortunately. My urologist and I still discuss pellets.
I know Nebido has a long history in most of Europe. With all the clinical data, can't understand why the FDA is not giving its full approval. In a similar fashion, Glucophage/metformin, had been in use for 20 years, when the FDA approved it for use in the US in the 70's.
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
It's approved. It is called Aveed in the US.
But if I'm understanding correctly, the FDA isn't allowing it to be titrated at similar dosage to Nebido, despite years of clinical data from outside the US. Approval lite.
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
Lower dose of 750 mg but also shorter intervals and a different loading protocol. See post #9
www.excelmale.com
Update on Aveed (Nebido- testosterone undecanoate- long acting testosterone)
Update on Aveed (Nebido- testosterone undecanoate- long acting testosterone): After a few problems with the FDA review process that have slowed down its approval by 3 years, this was the last announcement: "Endo Pharmaceuticals Inc., a subsidiary of Endo Health Solutions Inc. (Nasdaq: ENDP)...
www.excelmale.com
I apologize for not reading, thoroughly.Lower dose of 750 mg but also shorter intervals and a different loading protocol. See post #9
Update on Aveed (Nebido- testosterone undecanoate- long acting testosterone)
Update on Aveed (Nebido- testosterone undecanoate- long acting testosterone): After a few problems with the FDA review process that have slowed down its approval by 3 years, this was the last announcement: "Endo Pharmaceuticals Inc., a subsidiary of Endo Health Solutions Inc. (Nasdaq: ENDP)...
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
No problem. The whole dosing protocol thing can be confusing. Now you see that the latest study I posted showed that it is better to inject every 8 weeks instead of 10. Of course, that would require doctor pre-authorization since it would be "off-label".
Thank you.
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
Shorter interval between testosterone undecanoate doses may boost levels in hypogonadism
Testosterone undecanoate injected at 8-week intervals for men with hypogonadism may reduce fluctuations and increase mean testosterone levels compared with a 10-week dose regimen, according to data from a modeling study. “The currently approved 10-week dose regimen of testosterone undecanoate...
www.healio.com
DragonBits
Well-Known Member
I followed this issue closely back in the day. I owned stock off and on in the company that had the license for Nebido and got aveed approved.Lower dose of 750 mg but also shorter intervals and a different loading protocol. See post #9
Update on Aveed (Nebido- testosterone undecanoate- long acting testosterone)
Update on Aveed (Nebido- testosterone undecanoate- long acting testosterone): After a few problems with the FDA review process that have slowed down its approval by 3 years, this was the last announcement: "Endo Pharmaceuticals Inc., a subsidiary of Endo Health Solutions Inc. (Nasdaq: ENDP)...
The company, Endo. Pharmaceuticals had the license for Nebido, but didn't really want to get it approved, as if it did get approval they would have had to pay $50 million to shareholders as part of their purchase of another company. So I could tell they put no effort into getting Nebido approved, and as soon as the deal went past the date in the deal, they worked hard on getting Aveed approved. As you know, Aveed is 3ml while Nebido is 4ml of exactly the same substance.
Since Aveed is a "new" drug, there is no generic for Aveed.
The thing is, Aveed is around $1,121 for one vial, while Nebido is typically ~$130, and generic testosterone undecanoate in castor oil is ~$30 per vial.
We say it's all about the money, while all of this makes sense for big phama financially, it results in tortured logic medically speaking.
john.davidson25
Member
I am stopping pellets and going to Aveed for the first time in about a week. If you guys like, I can provide an account of what it's like to go from pellets to Aveed, if it will be helpful to those considering getting off pellets and trying Aveed.
My biggest fear with Aveed is I tend to require higher levels of T and it will just not bring me up there and I will walk around like a zombie for weeks. Stay tuned.
My biggest fear with Aveed is I tend to require higher levels of T and it will just not bring me up there and I will walk around like a zombie for weeks. Stay tuned.
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
I used Nebido back in the days and loved it. I used it every 8 weeks at 1000 mg per shot.
Nebido is the most studied therapy in the TRT field. The problem with using it is that doctors wait too long between injections.
After two injections 10 weeks apart, I suggest that you measure your total T (LC/MS) and free t (equilibrium dialysis) eight weeks after the second injection to see if your total T is still above 500 ng/dL. That should tell you what to do next.
Many doctors don’t prescribe Aveed because the FDA requires that doctors should be registered with the company and have the patient come to the office for injections.
I don’t know how many pellets, the mg of each pellet and the frequency of insertion you used. Let me know.
Nebido is the most studied therapy in the TRT field. The problem with using it is that doctors wait too long between injections.
After two injections 10 weeks apart, I suggest that you measure your total T (LC/MS) and free t (equilibrium dialysis) eight weeks after the second injection to see if your total T is still above 500 ng/dL. That should tell you what to do next.
Many doctors don’t prescribe Aveed because the FDA requires that doctors should be registered with the company and have the patient come to the office for injections.
I don’t know how many pellets, the mg of each pellet and the frequency of insertion you used. Let me know.
john.davidson25
Member
Hi Nelson
I thought Aveed and Nebido are the same drug, with the exception that dosing for aveed is less than Nebido? My concern is exactly what you described. Many doctors don't understand the "Crash" that comes last few weeks and how disruptive it is not being able to maintain a steady state T levels, short of injecting every day which I thought about but just not practical for me. Let's see, hopefully I'll have the same benefits you got with Nebido.
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
Sorry for mentioning both brands of the same ester. Aveed is the brand in the US and Nebido is the brand used outside the US.
Nebido and Aveed are both injectable forms of testosterone undecanoate, a medication used to treat low testosterone levels in men. The main difference between the two is the concentration of the medication in each vial. Nebido contains 1000 mg/4 ml, while Aveed contains 750 mg/3 ml[1][2][3]. They are essentially the same formulation, with different brand names in different countries[2][4].
According to the FDA, the lower dosage of Aveed (750 mg in 3 mL) compared to Nebido (1000 mg in 4 mL) was selected by the manufacturer in an attempt to reduce the volume of the injection[1]. Aveed is the same formulation as Nebido, but it allows for a longer interval between treatments, with injections every 10 weeks compared with every 2-4 weeks for other injectable testosterone products[2][3]. The dosing schedule for Aveed involves a single 3-mL (750 mg) intramuscular injection given once at initiation of therapy, at 4 weeks, and then every 10 weeks thereafter[3]
Like any testosterone product injected in larger volumes and deeply into muscle, Aveed carries a risk of pulmonary oil microembolism (POME), a serious but rare side effect that causes coughing spell after the injection. That’s why the FDA requires patients to go to see their doctor for every injection.
I suggest to anyone using either brand to get their own T tests the day before the third injection to avoid assuming that the injection frequency is adequate. Don’t wait to just get tested by your doctor. Most don’t titrate the dose and just follow the package insert.
Nebido and Aveed are both injectable forms of testosterone undecanoate, a medication used to treat low testosterone levels in men. The main difference between the two is the concentration of the medication in each vial. Nebido contains 1000 mg/4 ml, while Aveed contains 750 mg/3 ml[1][2][3]. They are essentially the same formulation, with different brand names in different countries[2][4].
According to the FDA, the lower dosage of Aveed (750 mg in 3 mL) compared to Nebido (1000 mg in 4 mL) was selected by the manufacturer in an attempt to reduce the volume of the injection[1]. Aveed is the same formulation as Nebido, but it allows for a longer interval between treatments, with injections every 10 weeks compared with every 2-4 weeks for other injectable testosterone products[2][3]. The dosing schedule for Aveed involves a single 3-mL (750 mg) intramuscular injection given once at initiation of therapy, at 4 weeks, and then every 10 weeks thereafter[3]
Like any testosterone product injected in larger volumes and deeply into muscle, Aveed carries a risk of pulmonary oil microembolism (POME), a serious but rare side effect that causes coughing spell after the injection. That’s why the FDA requires patients to go to see their doctor for every injection.
I suggest to anyone using either brand to get their own T tests the day before the third injection to avoid assuming that the injection frequency is adequate. Don’t wait to just get tested by your doctor. Most don’t titrate the dose and just follow the package insert.
DragonBits
Well-Known Member
I just did a blood test 14 weeks and 4 days post injection.
I felt that my T was low, but IMO after reviewing my results, it was more psychosomatic than real. (I am certainly aware of how long it's been) My Total T came out at 664ng/dl E2 21.5 pg/ml, I was a little surprised.
Right now, 2 weeks post injection, I would guess my total T is ~2000. It will gradually fall over 3 months to ~600+.
I did once a test 4 weeks after the injection and my values were not to high, Nebido seems to keep my levels quite stable. Working good for me, have 1G every 9 weeks.
I’m having high blood pressure lately, but I’m investigating still, no final conclusion, otherwise I’m feeling great!
Deleted member 43589
Well-Known Member
I made the the decision about 3 months ago to start back on the generic testosterone undeconoate. I have been doing 40mg every 5 days, going sub-q. Will not see any labs until may. I have always done well with TU but never micro dosed sub-q.
I would be interested to know more about this method, how you feel and pros and cons
Any pip? Why not IM?
All the best!
I started TRT with Nebido, and used it as directed. I honestly didn't enjoy the massive shot (4mL) and the miserable dip in levels before the next pin, which apparently isn't supposed to happen.
Much happier with Sustanon since then.
With more frequent injections, Nebido might have some merit. But I don't know if the manufacturer produces smaller ampoules.
Much happier with Sustanon since then.
With more frequent injections, Nebido might have some merit. But I don't know if the manufacturer produces smaller ampoules.
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