Ipamorelin and IGF-1

[SteveCleves]

Most people started doing peptide because they were a cheaper alternative to doing hGH. When you have to pay more than $2/dose you might as well go hGH. Good Chinese hGH easily goes for $0.70 - $1.00/iu. With 2mg of Ipa going for about $30, you are looking at $7.50/500mcg. Tesamorelin. is about $75/5mg so that is $1.50/100mcg injection. Either one of them costs far more than good Chinese hGH. If I had to choose between the two I would always go with hGH over peptides. If you pay $35 for modified GRF 1-29 that is $1.75/100mcg. Combine that with IPA and you are easily paying $9.25/dose. You can do 4iu of hGH for $2/dose. These prices all came from Peptide Sciences which is about average in prices on the web. Exactly why I appreciate places like @NuSciencePeptides for providing much less expensive prices. I always try to get the best bang for the buck.

If you go directly to some of those same sources that are selling cheap GH they are also selling peptides. So you can get Ipam for ~$0.50 per 500mcg.

 

[SteveCleves]

Just like with everything else, it’s all about balance. Calorie restriction will also increase longevity. But by how much, compared to eating at a calorie maintenance, and enjoying life more and feeling better? Same thing with IGF-1. Lower igf-1 levels will increase longevity. So it’s all about ur personal balance between improving longevity, vs feeling good, looking good, and enjoying life a bit more while ur here, when it comes to where u want ur igf-1 levels.

Completely agree.

Look all of this nonsense is ultimately about what level of risk is one willing to take vs the reward they hope to get out of it.

 

[BadassBlues]

Definately not Bro Science, if you use HGH, it needs to be cycled.

I can attest to the benefits you mention above using peptides. My sleep, mood, skin and overall mojo have greatly improved since adding Ipamorelin to my daily protocol. I also do cycles of Ipam and MOD GRF for greater benefits, mainly muscular enhancement.

I am a lifelong gym rat, now 66. I am no longer interested in gaining a lot of bulk, just maintaining what I have and looking towards better definition.

In my opinion, and this is just me, it seems to be a more natural and effective route to stimulate natural production rather than add exogenous substances. But also as I stated, what are your goals? For BB purposes, it may be more effective to go the HGH route for maximum gains.

 

[BadassBlues]

Completely agree.

Look all of this nonsense is ultimately about what level of risk is one willing to take vs the reward they hope to get out of it.

"Level of risk"

That is the measurment that should be considered before pulling the trigger on something. I consider myself a fairly conservative biohacker. I do my homework and research everything I can find before ever using any substance or medication.

Lots of stuff out there and a whole lot of guys taking big risks.

 

[BadassBlues]

An IPAM/Mod GRF blend at the right ratio instead of 1 to 1 would be a big seller I would expect. I have not seen this offered.

It's available from multiple peptide sellers. PS has it at 5mg/5mg.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

It's available from multiple peptide sellers. PS has it at 5mg/5mg.

Yes, I use that however it sounds like the commonly recommended ratio is 5 to 1.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Has that been shown anywhere that exogenous gh does this or is that broscience?

Just very intrigued by peptides and GH. Trying to understand them a little better.

Perhaps its just my bigorexia kicking in and I am feeling some FOMO that I am not on GH or peptides.

I now GH is not anabolic, its the quality of life benefits that have me intrigued. Better skin, better sleep, better recovery, fat loss, etc.

That being said, there are dangerous unknowns redlining your IGF-1, from a longevity perspective.
So the question is, is the pulsatile nature of peptides "safer" than just injecting GH?

Absolutely hGH cause a downregulation of natural GH. As GH levels rise in the blood stream, IGF-1 levels also rise this imbalance triggers an increase in somatostatin which signals the pituitart to slow or stop GH production. You can absoluteluy use a GHRP with hGH to avoid this from happening. In any case, once you stop the GH and IGF-1 levels return more to baseline somatostatin fall and the pituitary once again starts producing GH.

Since these are the normal levels of IGF-1 in males

• Ages 18-55: 37-245 ng/mL
• Ages 55+: 25-232 ng/mL

It is probably not a good idea to push IGF-1 levels over 300ng/ml. Even at 3x/d dosing with peptides it is doubtful you will push the IGF-1 levels over 300. The most likely equates to 4iu of hGH. However with guys who are doing 15+iu of hGH it is very possible. However, I am not sure I have seen any blood testing done using those amounts.

Life extension use of hGH is usually 2iu/d. You are not going to see those extremes in IGF-1 at this dose.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Just like with everything else, it’s all about balance. Calorie restriction will also increase longevity. But by how much, compared to eating at a calorie maintenance, and enjoying life more and feeling better? Same thing with IGF-1. Lower igf-1 levels will increase longevity. So it’s all about ur personal balance between improving longevity, vs feeling good, looking good, and enjoying life a bit more while ur here, when it comes to where u want ur igf-1 levels.

Balance is important.

Low IGF-1 levels may indicate a growth hormone deficiency, which can cause symptoms such as:

• A higher level of body fat, especially around the waist
• Anxiety and depression
• Decreased sexual function and interest
• Fatigue
• Feelings of being isolated from other people
• Greater sensitivity to heat and cold
• Less muscle (lean body mass)
• Less strength, stamina and ability to exercise without taking a rest
• Decreased bone density and muscle mass

 

[SteveCleves]

Life extension use of hGH is usually 2iu/d. You are not going to see those extremes in IGF-1 at this dose.

IS there any kind of dose equivalence chart or general guideline that equates peptide dosages to exogenous GH?

For example.
250mcg Ipamorelin = 2 IU GH
100mcg (whatever) = 3 IU GH
...

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Just like with everything else, it’s all about balance. Calorie restriction will also increase longevity. But by how much, compared to eating at a calorie maintenance, and enjoying life more and feeling better? Same thing with IGF-1. Lower igf-1 levels will increase longevity. So it’s all about ur personal balance between improving longevity, vs feeling good, looking good, and enjoying life a bit more while ur here, when it comes to where u want ur igf-1 levels.

A lot of what is parroted about risk is highly suspect IMO.

- As I've pointed out in other threads, elevated IGF-1 in the gen-pop could be a marker for chronically elevated insulin, which is almost certainly bad, but here we are talking about intermittent spikes, in my case several times per week, in a population that should be striving for low insulin levels. Just like with insulin, occasional spikes may be a good thing while chronic elevation is not.
- GH is one of the very few things which increase joint integrity and injury recovery, and reduce visceral fat, all of which should have a strong anti-aging affect
- It's very questionable that calorie restriction would have a net benefit for the demographic on forums like this since the CR studies in higher-order animals compared an all-you-can-eat diet to the CR diet, and there are multiple reasons (instinct, depression) that animals in captivity could overeat when presented with unlimited food. A valid trial would have compared fairly lean, healthy animals to the CR group. Frailty, lack of general resilience against infection and inability to attract mates are at least three things that would argue against extreme CR, although not against occasional fasting.
- The studies on GH-knockout mice and Laron Syndrome people are both dealing with populations where GH was restricted on a lifelong basis, so it's unclear if suddenly restricting as an adult would be of benefit, especially if insulin levels are controlled for.

 

[BadassBlues]

Yes, I use that however it sounds like the commonly recommended ration is 5 to 1.

Sorry, I misread your post. I have seen a 5mg / 2mg blend but can't remember which seller had it.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

IS there any kind of dose equivalence chart or general guideline that equates peptide dosages to exogenous GH?

For example.
250mcg Ipamorelin = 2 IU GH
100mcg (whatever) = 3 IU GH
...

I have not seen one, however:

Pharmacokinetics and Pharmacodynamics of Growth Hormone-Releasing Peptide-2: A Phase I Study in Children Catherine Pihoker, Gregory L. Kearns, Daniel French and Cyril Y. Bowers, The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism 1998 Vol. 83, No. 4 1168-1172

Pharmacokinetics and Pharmacodynamics of Growth Hormone-Releasing Peptide-2: A Phase I Study in Children1

Administration of GH-releasing peptide-2 (GHRP-2) represents a potential mode of therapy for children of short stature with inadequate secretion of GH. Req

academic.oup.com

Basically they found 1mcg/kg of GHRP-2 half as effective as 43mcg/kg of synthetic GH. There was a linear relationship and therefore they conjectured that 2mcg/kg of GHRP-2 would be as effective as 43mcg/kg of synthetic GH.

90kg (200lb) man @ 2mcg/kg = 180mcg GHRP
90kg x 43mcg/kg = 3.87iu of GH

This is about as close as we know other than a chart a guy named Bobaslaw created through his research. This compares 100mcg of GRF/GHRP to hGH and CJC 1295 DAC. Kind of show using peptides 3xd = 7iu GH. I personally think this is kind of high. I would say at most = 3-4iu. I do 4iu of hGH quite frequently and the side effects are hard to take. Peptides at 3x/d are much more tolerable.

 

[johann]

Very informative thread, I went to Mexico and did fly and buy program for hGH and took 2iu for a year and got nothing out of that, and just 4 weeks ago I stared 500mcg/Ipamorelin and 300mcg/CJC1295 and just waiting to see if that does something.

 

[Ryan474]

I have been on GHRH's and GHRP's as well as GH off and on for about 4 years and can say the following:

• Ipa 400mcg at night daily raised IGF only a modest amount (10-30 points, from 130's to 150's), within 1-2 months.
  • I did not carefully control for other factors though so I cannot be sure it was the Ipa alone. For example, I started danazol around this time for very high SHBG (from t3 only thyroid replacement), so the danazol itself in theory could have increased IGF through increasing Free T. I didn't care much about IGF effects of ipa. I was going for improved sleep quality to lead to better wellbeing, and ipa definitely seemed to do that. My sleep quality was sub-par previously.
  • On another note, my response to ipa seems to have changed over time. I'm suspicious it was when i switched to using 'research' peptides after not being able to get them from compounding pharmacies any longer. However, it could be some other physiologic change unrelated to that.
• GH (norditropin or genotropin) at 1 iu/day did not raise IGF much at all, at least in the context of a chronically low-normal E2. Side note: I've heard higher estrogens are associated with higher IGF-1, and this lines up with my experience from lab results.
• GH at slightly higher doses DID raise IGF-1 significantly, even when controlling for about the same E2 and TT levels.
  • -> 1.2iu/day (in morning, but not the day of the labs) brought igf from 192 to 244.
  • -> Upping to 1.5iu/day did not bring IGF-1 up any significant amount (was 254 instead of 244, and that may have been for other reasons i.e. much higher E2 and free T and TT driving the IGF up). Perhaps my genetic potential for IGF-1 production tops out around this level, regardless o dose.
  • -> 1.8iu/day, igf still 247, so no better than 1.2 or 1.5 iu. Side note: started to see high blood pressure.
• Ipamorelin/sermorelin 200/200mcg 3x/daily for 2 weeks brought IGF up from 183 to 269. Then back down to 170 two weeks after stopping.
• Other notes:
  • GHRH's like sermorelin have always affected my mood negatively. Ipamorelin didn't (GHRP).
  • Tesamorelin seems to increase deep sleep and reduce REM sleep, which is probably to be expected on a GHRH. My theory is the increase in deep sleep partly explains why my recovery and progress in the gym was better while on Tesa, but why I would wake early unrefreshed sometimes-- sleep quality seemed worse and mood seemed worse.
  • Now I'm testing out using these various peptides and hgh in an every other day or couple of times per week fashion to hopefully get some of the benefits, without hurting mood etc. My body response in a weird way to many things.

 

[Gman86]

I have been on GHRH's and GHRP's as well as GH off and on for about 4 years and can say the following:

• Ipa 400mcg at night daily raised IGF only a modest amount (10-30 points, from 130's to 150's), within 1-2 months.
  • I did not carefully control for other factors though so I cannot be sure it was the Ipa alone. For example, I started danazol around this time for very high SHBG (from t3 only thyroid replacement), so the danazol itself in theory could have increased IGF through increasing Free T. I didn't care much about IGF effects of ipa. I was going for improved sleep quality to lead to better wellbeing, and ipa definitely seemed to do that. My sleep quality was sub-par previously.
  • On another note, my response to ipa seems to have changed over time. I'm suspicious it was when i switched to using 'research' peptides after not being able to get them from compounding pharmacies any longer. However, it could be some other physiologic change unrelated to that.
• GH (norditropin or genotropin) at 1 iu/day did not raise IGF much at all, at least in the context of a chronically low-normal E2. Side note: I've heard higher estrogens are associated with higher IGF-1, and this lines up with my experience from lab results.
• GH at slightly higher doses DID raise IGF-1 significantly, even when controlling for about the same E2 and TT levels.
  • -> 1.2iu/day (in morning, but not the day of the labs) brought igf from 192 to 244.
  • -> Upping to 1.5iu/day did not bring IGF-1 up any significant amount (was 254 instead of 244, and that may have been for other reasons i.e. much higher E2 and free T and TT driving the IGF up). Perhaps my genetic potential for IGF-1 production tops out around this level, regardless o dose.
  • -> 1.8iu/day, igf still 247, so no better than 1.2 or 1.5 iu. Side note: started to see high blood pressure.
• Ipamorelin/sermorelin 200/200mcg 3x/daily for 2 weeks brought IGF up from 183 to 269. Then back down to 170 two weeks after stopping.
• Other notes:
  • GHRH's like sermorelin have always affected my mood negatively. Ipamorelin didn't (GHRP).
  • Tesamorelin seems to increase deep sleep and reduce REM sleep, which is probably to be expected on a GHRH. My theory is the increase in deep sleep partly explains why my recovery and progress in the gym was better while on Tesa, but why I would wake early unrefreshed sometimes-- sleep quality seemed worse and mood seemed worse.
  • Now I'm testing out using these various peptides and hgh in an every other day or couple of times per week fashion to hopefully get some of the benefits, without hurting mood etc. My body response in a weird way to many things.

What a great and thorough report! Thanks so much for tracking everything so well, and sharing ur experience!

In the past, growth hormone peptides like ipa and CJC didn't raise my igf-1 at all

The combo of GHRP 2/ GHRP 6 did tho. Got igf-1 up to 350. Can’t remember the dosages.

Genotropin HGH definitely raises my igf-1 levels. 1.8iu’s every am got igf-1 up to 330. Took the 1.8iu’s at 7am, and had labs done at 8:30am. And 3 iu’s of underground generic HGH got me up to 378 for igf-1 one time. Pretty sure Genotropin at 3 iu’s got me well above 400 before, but I can’t find those labs in my notes anywhere. I’d have to check labcorp or quests websites under results to find them

for reference, I run in the 200-250 range without taking anything to specifically try and drive up growth hormone levels