Insomnia difficulty falling in sleep

[tropicaldaze1950]

When you take temazepam as prescribed for sleep, there is zero addiction potential. It just makes me sleepy, not happy or high. I laugh even at the idea to take it during the day - it's pointless. I can stop it at any time, as long as I have something else to make me sleep. I switch between Ambien and temazepam without any problem, never felt a "withdrawal".

It is a completely different story when you take benzos to make you feel good during the day. Medical marijuana is also addictive. It is "all natural" gateway to harder drugs.

I only take clonazepam to sleep, as directed, and I am addicted. It also can cause ED. The doctor who first prescribed it told me that when I told her I was having problems. All benzos are addictive, and we're talking using them as prescribed. Tried Ambien; made me hypomanic and caused balance problems. Lunesta leaves me sedated for hours after waking. Melatonin makes me depressed. As for medical mj or legal mj, IMO, it has its place for sleep, anxiety, depression and PTSD. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I look forward when psychedelics(MDMA, LSD) can be used by trained psychiatrists for mood disorders. I know two of the top docs in the field of bipolar research and they concede that the wall has been hit insofar as breakthrough medications. Most of the meds have too many side effects, so patients stop taking them or they become refractory to the medication(s).

I stopped following bipolar research. At 72, I'm either not going to be around for the next breakthrough or I'll be too old for it to matter. Either way, it makes me sad that I'll likely never be functional again. Testosterone, supplements, diet and exercise are the ways I'm trying to slow down the relentless damage caused by this illness. If I could sleep soundly every night, without addictive medication, my mental and physical health would greatly improve.

 

[sammmy]

And by you are "addicted to clonazepam for sleep" you mean what exactly? What happens if you just stop it?

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

And by you are "addicted to clonazepam for sleep" you mean what exactly? What happens if you just stop it?

sammmy, I know more about this than you. If your doctor tells you there's no addiction risk, he or she isn't a good doctor. When we first moved to Florida and I was seeking a psychiatrist, the first one I saw told me flat out that he doesn't prescribe clonazepam or any other benzo and if I wanted to be his patient, I had to detox. First and last visit. As for what happens if I stop, and I've tried several times over the years; My mediocre sleep(5-6 hours a night) goes to poor sleep(3-4 hours a night), which leads to hypomania/mood instability and suicidal thoughts. Look up Dr. Heather Ashton, the late British psychiatrist/psychopharmacologist who was an addiction specialist whose focus was on benzodiazipine addiction. As @t_spacemonkey said, you MIGHT be someone who has a low risk of addiction but many more people are addicted to benzos. It's an epidemic that's been raging for years.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

sammmy, I know more about this than you. If your doctor tells you there's no addiction risk, he or she isn't a good doctor. When we first moved to Florida and I was seeking a psychiatrist, the first one I saw told me flat out that he doesn't prescribe clonazepam or any other benzo and if I wanted to be his patient, I had to detox. First and last visit. As for what happens if I stop, and I've tried several times over the years; My mediocre sleep(5-6 hours a night) goes to poor sleep(3-4 hours a night), which leads to hypomania/mood instability and suicidal thoughts. Look up Dr. Heather Ashton, the late British psychiatrist/psychopharmacologist who was an addiction specialist whose focus was on benzodiazipine addiction. As @t_spacemonkey said, you MIGHT be someone who has a low risk of addiction but many more people are addicted to benzos. It's an epidemic that's been raging for years.

it angers me when docs still prescribe benzos to NEW patients and telling them they are 'safe'. it shows you how ignorant the established medical system is. I found it really hard to navigate through it, and by design take everything they say as a LIE which has to be proven otherwise.
I personally delt with massive insomnia, and pretty much tried every drug on the planet (currently 100% drug free, minus TRT). benzos are definitely the most effective, but as said very dangerous.
there is no drug long term which will fix sleep. for short term I think the safest and least addictive are anti histamine type drugs, like hydroxizine, or even seroquel, which at low dose does act similar to an antihistamine.
I would even try lyrica/gabapentin before a benzo, as they too can be nasty to withdraw, but it is usually short lived (weeks not months or years).
they all come with nasty s'x, daytime sleepiness, in case of for ex. lyrica (and to a lesser extent gabapentin), suicidal thoughts are common. I never was suicidal, but after trying lyrica couple times in the past, i could totally relate to somebody who is, by the way you feel. the always went away after I stopped taking them, so it was the drugs.

 

[sammmy]

Psychiatric patients can get addicted to anything. That doesn't generalize to the general population and is not a reason for fearmongering and vilifying a drug.

Large part of the population is addicted to alcohol, marijuana, psychedelic mushrooms, or sniffing glue, or eating sugar. I don't see anyone waving finger about the "addiction potential" of those but let's trash the only drugs that reliably work for insomnia.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Psychiatric patients can get addicted to anything. That doesn't generalize to the general population and is not a reason for fearmongering and vilifying a drug.

Large part of the population is addicted to alcohol, marijuana, psychedelic mushrooms, or sniffing glue, or eating sugar. I don't see anyone waving finger about the "addiction potential" of those but let's trash the only drugs that reliably work for insomnia.

That statement is uninformed, wholly inaccurate and even ignorant. Your 'general population' is where benzo dependence exists, meaning people with anxiety, unremitting stress, with or without sleep problems. In the UK, it's general physicians who are prescribing, not psychiatrists. And this:

Steep Climb In Benzodiazepine Prescribing By Primary Care Doctors​

[IMG alt="NPR"]https://npr.brightspotcdn.com/dims4...a.npr.org/images/stations/logos/npr.gif[/IMG]
By Rhitu Chatterjee
Published January 25, 2019 at 1:18 PM EST



You're right that alcohol is the number one legally available drug but I'm not anti-alcohol. Prohibition was a misguided disastrous attempt at social engineering and the only ones who benefited were small crime organizations that became wealthy and powerful crime organizations. But back to benzos. Doctors have a responsibility to advise a patient of any potential or real issues when a medication is prescribed. If a doctor doesn't understand any risks of the medication he or she is prescribing, they're not good doctors.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

it angers me when docs still prescribe benzos to NEW patients and telling them they are 'safe'. it shows you how ignorant the established medical system is. I found it really hard to navigate through it, and by design take everything they say as a LIE which has to be proven otherwise.
I personally delt with massive insomnia, and pretty much tried every drug on the planet (currently 100% drug free, minus TRT). benzos are definitely the most effective, but as said very dangerous.
there is no drug long term which will fix sleep. for short term I think the safest and least addictive are anti histamine type drugs, like hydroxizine, or even seroquel, which at low dose does act similar to an antihistamine.
I would even try lyrica/gabapentin before a benzo, as they too can be nasty to withdraw, but it is usually short lived (weeks not months or years).
they all come with nasty s'x, daytime sleepiness, in case of for ex. lyrica (and to a lesser extent gabapentin), suicidal thoughts are common. I never was suicidal, but after trying lyrica couple times in the past, i could totally relate to somebody who is, by the way you feel. the always went away after I stopped taking them, so it was the drugs.

Did gabapentin. Diarrhea for several days until I found out it was a side effect. Benadryl and other sedating antihistamines make me hyper and unable to sleep. Been on low dose Serequel several times. Awful. Unable to function all day. And my last time, years ago, I had an accident, on the way to my doctor, due to being too sedated and cognitively impaired. Benzos and Z drugs are no better.

 

[sammmy]

Any drug has a risk. What you both are doing is overblowing the risk of benzo addiction out of proportion because of your personal experience with it, which does NOT apply to the vast group of people that use benzos strictly for sleep, not to feel good.

Because of that fearmongering narrative all over internet, people sometimes cannot get a prescription for insomnia. We don't need to ban all drugs because of bunch of people that had side effects or abuse them.

And then it's even funnier when you are not "anti-alcohol" or "anti-marijuana" when these have higher addiction potential of any benzo. Alcohol acts on GABA receptors, just like benzos, if you don't know that ...

 

[sammmy]

And one last point. The benzo designed for sleep is Temazepam, because it has a half life of about 10 hours so it makes you sleep during the night but doesn't affect you during the day.

Clonazepam has a half life of 30 hours and is NOT designed for sleep because it stays in the body too long. It basically sedates you night and day and maybe that's why you don't like it.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

I'm finished with this thread.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

I'm finished with this thread.

hitting a wall with the guy obviously. we tried our best. everybody makes their own choices and will have to suffer the consequences sooner or later

 

[sammmy]

Yes I am going to "suffer" tonight with 30mg temazepam, sleeping like a baby. Have been "suffering" like that for years, still waiting to become "dependent" on it.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Yes I am going to "suffer" tonight with 30mg temazepam, sleeping like a baby. Have been "suffering" like that for years, still waiting to become "dependent" on it.

After taking it for years and if you can't sleep without it, that's indicative of being dependent on it. Your concept of addiction is someone desperately trying to score what they need, but as long as a doctor will give a person an rx with multiple refills, it's legit. That's why so many are addicted to benzos or opioids or both.

There are many high functioning alcoholics. They have careers, families, friends. Good people. I know several. But they still need to drink everyday, prodigiously. Actually,vociferous denial that one is addicted to a substance is a clear 'tell' about being addicted.

But, yeah; your life. Whatever. Case closed.

 

[sammmy]

After taking it for years and if you can't sleep without it, that's indicative of being dependent on it.

And that's exactly where you demonstrate you don't know what is meant by drug dependence in the sense of addiction. I can stop sleep meds at any time and have done it multiple times. The only consequence is that I won't be able to sleep, just like when I wasn't taking them, so it's NOT a problem created by the meds.

Claiming that you are "addicted" to benzo because it allows you to sleep, is like claiming diabetics are dependent and addicted to insulin, or hypogonal men are dependent and addicted to testosterone, or in general you are "addicted" to any drug that you need to take to treat any problem! How smart!

You and the other genius haven't even tried the right bezo for sleep but make sweeping generalizations without even understanding what drug addiction means.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

And that's exactly where you demonstrate you don't know what is meant by drug dependence in the sense of addiction. I can stop sleep meds at any time and have done it multiple times. The only consequence is that I won't be able to sleep, just like when I wasn't taking them, so it's NOT a problem created by the meds.

Claiming that you are "addicted" to benzo because it allows you to sleep, is like claiming diabetics are dependent and addicted to insulin, or hypogonal men are dependent and addicted to testosterone, or in general you are "addicted" to any drug that you need to take to treat any problem! How smart!

You and the other genius haven't even tried the right bezo for sleep but make sweeping generalizations without even understanding what drug addiction means.

Okay, sammmy, whatever.

 

[sexualathlete]

Benzos aren't prescribed for sleep issues I think or at least they shouldn't. You don't even get the right kind of sleep on them. Zopiclone worked pretty well for a while when I was blasting the heck out of tren and had insomnia but it's also addicting. There was an antipsychotic that worked well too in very small dosages. 12.5mg-25mg quetiapine would put me to sleep and I'd feel fine the next day. No addiction potential as far as I'm aware of.

The best "natural" thing I've found for sleep is 3IUs of growth hormone right before going to bed. I also take a scoop of taurine and tons of magnesium.

 

[sammmy]

And now let's see what reality says:

Temazepam (sold under the brand names Restoril among others) is a medication of the benzodiazepine class which is generally used to treat severe or debilitating insomnia.

The improvements in sleep latency and total sleep time were numerically much greater than any of the other included sleep medications, including eszopiclone, zopiclone, zolpidem, triazolam, estazolam, quazepam, flurazepam, trazodone, diphenhydramine, gabapentin, among others.

Typically abusers of benzodiazepines and all other drugs are the ones that are most scared of getting dependent but they assume that everybody is like them:

Because benzodiazepines can be abused and lead to dependence, their use should be avoided in people in certain particularly high-risk groups. These groups include people with a history of alcohol or drug dependence, people significantly struggling with their mood or people with longstanding mental health difficulties.

 

[sexualathlete]

And now let's see what reality says:



Typically abusers of benzodiazepines and all other drugs are the ones that are most scared of getting dependent but they assume that everybody is like them:

It's for short term use only. Like a week. I pop half a xanax from time to time when I have one of those nights. But I feel like absolute shit the next day.

Why are you so protective of your precious benzo? That drug is used for treat severe or debilitating insomnia not to fall asleep faster. Would you recomment someone with light sleep issues to start using it? Messing your GABA receptors up is better than killing yourself with insomnia. I can agree with that. Seems like a last resort kind of thing to me. You can't just keep inhibiting GABA without consequence. It just makes the problem worse technically.

 

[Hyrulewarrior1978]

The funny thing about drug addicts is that they refuse to admit they are addicted, or they don’t know they’ve become addicted because they’ve taken the drug for so long they don’t know what normal is anymore. It’s even more sad that physicians provide a constant source of these drugs even though the fda introduced black box warnings about wd in 2020 (far too late imo).

 

[sammmy]

It's for short term use only. Like a week. I pop half a xanax from time to time when I have one of those nights. But I feel like absolute shit the next day.

Why are you so protective of your precious benzo? That drug is used for treat severe or debilitating insomnia not to fall asleep faster. Would you recomment someone with light sleep issues to start using it? Messing your GABA receptors up is better than killing yourself with insomnia. I can agree with that. Seems like a last resort kind of thing to me. You can't just keep inhibiting GABA without consequence. It just makes the problem worse technically.

Read the originating post of this thread and let me know if the poster has severe insomnia or just "wants to fall asleep faster"?

It's amazing every single poster here who is against benzos is actually either on them or have abused them and has NOT used Temazepam for sleep. Benzos are not the same and don't speak of one that you have never used!

You all fit the profile of people that should never use benzos. Stick to magnesium and melatonin - unless you find way to abuse those too.