Iibido without hcg

[RickD]

Well, I can't say that I don't ever get grumpy but not often. I am normally in a pretty good mood, had great libido and have morning wood every morning and throughout the night. I can't remember when libido and morning wood were not there. It's been several years, probably since I went on the daily injections. It just seemed to level everything off. Maybe as we get older we need a little more? If it were me I'd probably run some labs ( i run them every four months) and see were you stood. But, what is most important is how you feel. Since you don't feel at the top of your game I would probably increase my dose a bit, maybe 2mg, to see if that makes a difference. What do you have to lose? If you don't do anything your likely to feel that way for another 3 to 4 months. Not worth it in my mind.

I think I'll take your advice and ramp it up a bit...

 

[madman]

I've been taking 14 units subq for about 2 years now twice a week, I'm 61. When I first started HRT morning wood came back and all was great, joint pain went away, flexibility increased, muscle mass, all the great stuff. The last 3-4 months, no wood, decreased libido, etc. Generally feeling crumby and depressed. Did you go through any of this? Any thoughts? What are your Total T levels? Mine are currently low/mid at 31.4 nmol/L (Canadian, sorry, anybody have a good converter?)

Forget increasing your dose for the time being as it is critical to know where your FT let alone estradiol level truly sits on your current protocol.

When was blood work done?

Do you have labs to post?

You left out some critical blood markers FT, SHGB and estradiol let alone RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit!

Are you using Delatestryl (Testosterone enanthate) or Depo-Testosterone (Testosterone cypionate)?

Delatestryl comes in 200 mg/mL strength.

Depo-Testosterone only comes in 100 mg/mL in Canada.

You stated.....I've been taking 14 units subq for about 2 years now twice a week.

If you mean .14 mL (14 units) then the strength of your T would have to be 200mg/mL and even then very odd as that would only be 56 mg T/week (28 mg T every 3.5 days).

You are hitting a high-end TT 31.4 nmol/L (905 ng/dL).

Although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of testosterone responsible for the positive effects.

Knowing where your SHBG sits is critical as not only will it have a significant impact on free testosterone but can dictate what injection frequency may suit you best.

You are hitting a high-end TT 905 ng/dL and depending on where your SHBG sits most likely hitting a higher-end FT or very high FT.



I'm 61. When I first started HRT morning wood came back and all was great, joint pain went away, flexibility increased, muscle mass, all the great stuff. The last 3-4 months, no wood, decreased libido, etc. Generally feeling crumby and depressed.

Need to know where your FT and estradiol levels sit.

 

[SkyWarn]

I've been taking 14 units subq for about 2 years now twice a week, I'm 61. When I first started HRT morning wood came back and all was great, joint pain went away, flexibility increased, muscle mass, all the great stuff. The last 3-4 months, no wood, decreased libido, etc. Generally feeling crumby and depressed. Did you go through any of this? Any thoughts? What are your Total T levels? Mine are currently low/mid at 31.4 nmol/L (Canadian, sorry, anybody have a good converter?)

If I were you I would try EOD and maybe bump it up a bit

 

[xibxang]

I'm about a year into TRT under clinical supervision and - as yet - I haven't tried HCG. From the experience I've gathered so far, it seems that if I let my E2 get into the "higher" side then my libido gets really strong (as long as I don't let it got too high). That said, I only have a year's worth of blood test results to go by and once I get more of them under my belt I'll be able to make a clearer assessment.

One thing I do notice though is that if I include a little bit of cardio in my gym sessions then I seem to be hornier. It's nothing that becomes too overpowering but I think I definitely notice the difference.

 

[RickD]

Forget increasing your dose for the time being as it is critical to know where your FT let alone estradiol level truly sits on your current protocol.

When was blood work done?

Do you have labs to post?

You left out some critical blood markers FT, SHGB and estradiol let alone RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit!

Are you using Delatestryl (Testosterone enanthate) or Depo-Testosterone (Testosterone cypionate)?

Delatestryl comes in 200 mg/mL strength.

Depo-Testosterone only comes in 100 mg/mL in Canada.

You stated.....I've been taking 14 units subq for about 2 years now twice a week.

If you mean .14 mL (14 units) then the strength of your T would have to be 200mg/mL and even then very odd as that would only be 56 mg T/week (28 mg T every 3.5 days).

You are hitting a high-end TT 31.4 nmol/L (905 ng/dL).

Although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of testosterone responsible for the positive effects.

Knowing where your SHBG sits is critical as not only will it have a significant impact on free testosterone but can dictate what injection frequency may suit you best.

You are hitting a high-end TT 905 ng/dL and depending on where your SHBG sits most likely hitting a higher-end FT or very high FT.



I'm 61. When I first started HRT morning wood came back and all was great, joint pain went away, flexibility increased, muscle mass, all the great stuff. The last 3-4 months, no wood, decreased libido, etc. Generally feeling crumby and depressed.

Need to know where your FT and estradiol levels sit.

Sorry for the long time between replies but I had to get some blood work to properly answer your question..

I upped my shots from .12cc twice a week to .2cc twice weekly SubQ of 250mg/ml Test in MCT oil (same stuff I've been taking all along) 3 weeks ago and most symptoms went away. Clearly I was low. Depression, shakyness, confusion, Anxiety all but gone. Still missing are libido and morning wood. Blood work taken Tuesday morning (24 hours after injection) is attached.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated since, here in Canada, it's almost impossible the have a doctor treat you for low T. I am self managed and get my T from a local bodybuilder who is the husband of a very close friend so I trust that he would not knowingly steer me wrong.

Also, seeing as the estradiol (not sensitive, the lab doesn't do that) is extremely high, I have (but have not taken any as of this date, I like to try one thing at a time, from the same bodybuilder) capsules containing 25mg Clomid + 2mg Letrozole and would be curious on thoughts on that.

 

[madman]

Sorry for the long time between replies but I had to get some blood work to properly answer your question..

I upped my shots from .12cc twice a week to .2cc twice weekly SubQ of 250mg/ml Test in MCT oil (same stuff I've been taking all along) 3 weeks ago and most symptoms went away. Clearly I was low. Depression, shakyness, confusion, Anxiety all but gone. Still missing are libido and morning wood. Blood work taken Tuesday morning (24 hours after injection) is attached.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated since, here in Canada, it's almost impossible the have a doctor treat you for low T. I am self managed and get my T from a local bodybuilder who is the husband of a very close friend so I trust that he would not knowingly steer me wrong.

Also, seeing as the estradiol (not sensitive, the lab doesn't do that) is extremely high, I have (but have not taken any as of this date, I like to try one thing at a time, from the same bodybuilder) capsules containing 25mg Clomid + 2mg Letrozole and would be curious on thoughts on that.

I upped my shots from .12cc twice a week to .2cc twice weekly SubQ of 250mg/ml Test in MCT oil (same stuff I've been taking all along)


Which was it .12 mL (12 units) or .14 mL (14 units)?

You previously stated (post #9).....I've been taking 14 units subq for about 2 years now twice a week.

I replied (post #22).....If you mean .14 mL (14 units) then the strength of your T would have to be 200mg/mL and even then very odd as that would only be 56 mg T/week (28 mg T every 3.5 days).

I stated.....You are hitting a high-end TT 905 ng/dL and depending on where your SHBG sits most likely hitting a higher-end FT or very high FT.

Seeing now that you are self-treating using UGL testosterone 250 mg/mL strength than when you previously stated you had been injecting 14 units subcutaneously you would have been injecting 70 mg T/week (35 mg T every 3.5 days).

Blood work was done and you were hitting a high-end TT 905 ng/dL.

When labs were drawn (peak/trough)?

Let alone you left out critical markers FT, SHBG, and estradiol.

Even then keep in mind that with a high-end TT 905ng/dL your FT is going to be on the higher end even if you had highish/high SHBG.

We have no clue if you are hitting a TT 905 ng/dL at peak or trough as you never mention when blood work was drawn.

The worst part is that you never had your SHBG, FT, and estradiol tested let alone important blood markers such as RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit.


You previously stated (post #9).....I've been taking 14 units subq for about 2 years now twice a week, I'm 61. When I first started HRT morning wood came back and all was great, joint pain went away, flexibility increased, muscle mass, all the great stuff. The last 3-4 months, no wood, decreased libido, etc. Generally feeling crumby and depressed. Did you go through any of this? Any thoughts? What are your Total T levels? Mine are currently low/mid at 31.4 nmol/L (Canadian, sorry, anybody have a good converter?)

Seems as though you felt descent overall on your previous protocol 70mg T/week split into twice-weekly injections up until 3 months ago?

You had been on the same dose T/injection frequency for 2 years with no issues up until 3 months ago.

Again you were hitting a high-end TT 905 ng/dL which would most likely have your FT on the higher end even if you had highish/high SHBG.


I upped my shots from .12cc twice a week to .2cc twice weekly SubQ of 250mg/ml Test in MCT oil (same stuff I've been taking all along) 3 weeks ago and most symptoms went away. Clearly I was low. Depression, shakyness, confusion, Anxiety all but gone. Still missing are libido and morning wood. Blood work taken Tuesday morning (24 hours after injection) is attached.

3 weeks ago you upped the dose T from 70 mg T/week (35 mg T every 3.5 days) to 100 mg T/week (50 mg T every 3.5 days).

This time around you had more thorough labs done as you tested TT, FT, SHBG.
and estradiol.

Blood work was done (24 hrs after injection) which would be your peak.

Again we want to test at the true trough (lowest point) before your next injection.

As you can see you were hitting a high-end TT 31.7 nmol/L (914 ng/dL) with high FT and estradiol.

The big mistake was that your blood work was done too soon (3 weeks after upping your dose) which is way too early as hormones will be in flux during the weeks leading up until blood levels have stabilized (4-6 weeks TC/TE).

When first starting trt or tweaking a protocol (increasing/decreasing dose of T) it will take 4-6 weeks for blood levels to stabilize when using esterified TC/TE.

Hormones will be in flux during the weeks leading up until blood levels have stabilized and it is common to experience ups/downs during the transition as the body is trying to adjust.

Even then once blood levels have stabilized (4-6 weeks) it will take time for the body to fully adapt to the new levels (set-point) and this is the critical time period when one should gauge how they truly feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-t symptoms.

The first 6 weeks can be very misleading and many make the mistake of jumping the gun too early because they do not feel well.

The only time dose of T should be increased 6 weeks in is if trough levels are too low (highly doubtful).

Every protocol should be given 12 weeks to claim whether it was truly a success or failure.


I upped my shots from .12cc twice a week to .2cc twice weekly SubQ of 250mg/ml Test in MCT oil (same stuff I've been taking all along) 3 weeks ago and most symptoms went away. Clearly I was low. Depression, shakyness, confusion, Anxiety all but gone. Still missing are libido and morning wood.

Again you just upped your T dose from 70--->100 mg T/week and it is common for one to experience ups/downs during the transition as hormones will be in flux during the weeks leading up until blood levels have stabilized (4-6 weeks).

Blood work should be done at 6 weeks.

3 weeks in and you are hitting a TT 914ng/dl with high FT and estradiol.

Levels will be even higher once blood levels have stabilized.


Also, seeing as the estradiol (not sensitive, the lab doesn't do that) is extremely high, I have (but have not taken any as of this date, I like to try one thing at a time, from the same bodybuilder) capsules containing 25mg Clomid + 2mg Letrozole and would be curious on thoughts on that.

Forget jumping on an AI let alone using Clomid.

You are only 3 weeks in and need to wait for 6 weeks then have blood work done to see where your TT, FT, and estradiol levels sit at the true trough.

You are injecting 100 mg T split (50 mg T every 3.5 days).

If you are injecting on Tuesday morning and Friday evening then blood work should be done Tuesday morning just before your next injection (84 hrs between injections).

 

[RickD]

I upped my shots from .12cc twice a week to .2cc twice weekly SubQ of 250mg/ml Test in MCT oil (same stuff I've been taking all along)


Which was it .12 mL (12 units) or .14 mL (14 units)?

You previously stated (post #9).....I've been taking 14 units subq for about 2 years now twice a week.

I replied (post #22).....If you mean .14 mL (14 units) then the strength of your T would have to be 200mg/mL and even then very odd as that would only be 56 mg T/week (28 mg T every 3.5 days).

I stated.....You are hitting a high-end TT 905 ng/dL and depending on where your SHBG sits most likely hitting a higher-end FT or very high FT.

Seeing now that you are self-treating using UGL testosterone 250 mg/mL strength than when you previously stated you had been injecting 14 units subcutaneously you would have been injecting 70 mg T/week (35 mg T every 3.5 days).

Blood work was done and you were hitting a high-end TT 905 ng/dL.

When labs were drawn (peak/trough)?

Let alone you left out critical markers FT, SHBG, and estradiol.

Even then keep in mind that with a high-end TT 905ng/dL your FT is going to be on the higher end even if you had highish/high SHBG.

We have no clue if you are hitting a TT 905 ng/dL at peak or trough as you never mention when blood work was drawn.

The worst part is that you never had your SHBG, FT, and estradiol tested let alone important blood markers such as RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit.


You previously stated (post #9).....I've been taking 14 units subq for about 2 years now twice a week, I'm 61. When I first started HRT morning wood came back and all was great, joint pain went away, flexibility increased, muscle mass, all the great stuff. The last 3-4 months, no wood, decreased libido, etc. Generally feeling crumby and depressed. Did you go through any of this? Any thoughts? What are your Total T levels? Mine are currently low/mid at 31.4 nmol/L (Canadian, sorry, anybody have a good converter?)

Seems as though you felt descent overall on your previous protocol 70mg T/week split into twice-weekly injections up until 3 months ago?

You had been on the same dose T/injection frequency for 2 years with no issues up until 3 months ago.

Again you were hitting a high-end TT 905 ng/dL which would most likely have your FT on the higher end even if you had highish/high SHBG.


I upped my shots from .12cc twice a week to .2cc twice weekly SubQ of 250mg/ml Test in MCT oil (same stuff I've been taking all along) 3 weeks ago and most symptoms went away. Clearly I was low. Depression, shakyness, confusion, Anxiety all but gone. Still missing are libido and morning wood. Blood work taken Tuesday morning (24 hours after injection) is attached.

3 weeks ago you upped the dose T from 70 mg T/week (35 mg T every 3.5 days) to 100 mg T/week (50 mg T every 3.5 days).

This time around you had more thorough labs done as you tested TT, FT, SHBG.
and estradiol.

Blood work was done (24 hrs after injection) which would be your peak.

Again we want to test at the true trough (lowest point) before your next injection.

As you can see you were hitting a high-end TT 31.7 nmol/L (914 ng/dL) with high FT and estradiol.

The big mistake was that your blood work was done too soon (3 weeks after upping your dose) which is way too early as hormones will be in flux during the weeks leading up until blood levels have stabilized (4-6 weeks TC/TE).

When first starting trt or tweaking a protocol (increasing/decreasing dose of T) it will take 4-6 weeks for blood levels to stabilize when using esterified TC/TE.

Hormones will be in flux during the weeks leading up until blood levels have stabilized and it is common to experience ups/downs during the transition as the body is trying to adjust.

Even then once blood levels have stabilized (4-6 weeks) it will take time for the body to fully adapt to the new levels (set-point) and this is the critical time period when one should gauge how they truly feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-t symptoms.

The first 6 weeks can be very misleading and many make the mistake of jumping the gun too early because they do not feel well.

The only time dose of T should be increased 6 weeks in is if trough levels are too low (highly doubtful).

Every protocol should be given 12 weeks to claim whether it was truly a success or failure.


I upped my shots from .12cc twice a week to .2cc twice weekly SubQ of 250mg/ml Test in MCT oil (same stuff I've been taking all along) 3 weeks ago and most symptoms went away. Clearly I was low. Depression, shakyness, confusion, Anxiety all but gone. Still missing are libido and morning wood.

Again you just upped your T dose from 70--->100 mg T/week and it is common for one to experience ups/downs during the transition as hormones will be in flux during the weeks leading up until blood levels have stabilized (4-6 weeks).

Blood work should be done at 6 weeks.

3 weeks in and you are hitting a TT 914ng/dl with high FT and estradiol.

Levels will be even higher once blood levels have stabilized.


Also, seeing as the estradiol (not sensitive, the lab doesn't do that) is extremely high, I have (but have not taken any as of this date, I like to try one thing at a time, from the same bodybuilder) capsules containing 25mg Clomid + 2mg Letrozole and would be curious on thoughts on that.

Forget jumping on an AI let alone using Clomid.

You are only 3 weeks in and need to wait for 6 weeks then have blood work done to see where your TT, FT, and estradiol levels sit at the true trough.

You are injecting 100 mg T split (50 mg T every 3.5 days).

If you are injecting on Tuesday morning and Friday evening then blood work should be done Tuesday morning just before your next injection (84 hrs between injections).I

I always inject Monday Morning and Thursday Evening and always get my blood work done Tuesday Mornings. I do usually get CBC and liver panels at the same time just didn't for this particular draw.

I will wait another 4 week and test (getting close to Xmas at that point) and heading south 3rd week in January so although the timing isn't ideal that's about as close as I can get before we leave.

You seem very knowledgeable on this and I very much appreciate your imput. Is there anything else you'd suggest on the next tests besides adding CBC and liver panels?