HCG Monotherapy. Success so far and questions.

[CoastWatcher]

Okay, thought I would bump this thread.

I still have some of the clicky joints remaining. Probably from having low E2 for so long. Can someone advise me if taking Armidex at this point would be wise? Since starting my HCG mono it has come up to 44 pg/ml. I dont have access to the sensitive test as I am in UK.

I dont want to crash my E2 as I seem to be sensitive to estrogens.

Thanks

Other than the clicking joints, possibly a residual effect of low E2, what else can you tell us? To simply spin the wheel and toss in some anastrozole...

 

[lookingforhelp]

Well because of my initial hesitancy to start with testosterone to begin with, he suggested sticking with the HCG and adding in a tiny tiny dose of an AI once a week. I do not know the exact amount yet as we spoke over the phone (he lives a couple of hours away) and he is sending me the prescription through the post.

He is a great Dr and very open minded but still areas which he could maybe be more informed on. For example, his dosing for T is every 7 to 10 days where as its common knowledge on these forums that people do better twice weekly. He is however the best Dr I have ever seen in the UK. Its almost impossible to get a prescription for HCG or an estrogen blocker in this country so I dont want to lose him! Just feel like with all of your guidance I can double check his opinions.

I don't want to piss him off so I am sort of following his rule a little bit. I need him on my side! He said to add in this AI and re-test bloods in a month.

From your experience do you think this is a wise choice? Or would opting for lower dose HCG twice weekly and some Testosterone be a safer option?

I don't want to have to take an AI if I don't have to!

Since my E2 has raised I am experiencing fatigue/tiredness again, weaker erections, no spontaneous ones, no drive, dull outlook, weaker. Having said this my sleep is so so much better with higher E2. Low e2 I had terrible insomnia. I still feel ''brighter'' than I did before HCG. Its hard to work all the symptoms out.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Well because of my initial hesitancy to start with testosterone to begin with, he suggested sticking with the HCG and adding in a tiny tiny dose of an AI once a week. I do not know the exact amount yet as we spoke over the phone (he lives a couple of hours away) and he is sending me the prescription through the post.

He is a great Dr and very open minded but still areas which he could maybe be more informed on. For example, his dosing for T is every 7 to 10 days where as its common knowledge on these forums that people do better twice weekly. He is however the best Dr I have ever seen in the UK. Its almost impossible to get a prescription for HCG or an estrogen blocker in this country so I dont want to lose him! Just feel like with all of your guidance I can double check his opinions.

I don't want to piss him off so I am sort of following his rule a little bit. I need him on my side! He said to add in this AI and re-test bloods in a month.

From your experience do you think this is a wise choice? Or would opting for lower dose HCG twice weekly and some Testosterone be a safer option?

I don't want to have to take an AI if I don't have to!

Since my E2 has raised I am experiencing fatigue/tiredness again, weaker erections, no spontaneous ones, no drive, dull outlook, weaker. Having said this my sleep is so so much better with higher E2. Low e2 I had terrible insomnia. I still feel ''brighter'' than I did before HCG. Its hard to work all the symptoms out.

I understand your efforts to maintain a relationship with this doctor who, though certainly not at the cutting edge of androgen management, is certainly better than what you might find anywhere else. That said, it's always best to discover what is being prescribed and not wait for the letter carrier to drop it in the box as a surprise. What will a "tiny, tiny dose of an AI once a week" be? It may well be just the ticket to bring things into line...or - given the challenges of managing estradiol levels that seem to be elevated due to HCG - it may not. How much time passed between protocol adjustments and your most recent lab work?

 

[johndoesmith]

UPDATE

Spoke to my Dr this morning. He suggested trying a tiny dose of Arimidex once a week before going to Testosterone therapy.

With my results:

Total T: 576 ngdl
E2: 44 pg/ml (high)
SHBG 45 nmol/l (high)

Will these improve? I have suffered with low e2 for a while so I am a little concerned of crashing my levels and feeling like shit. How long does E2 take to recover?

Can you say when these were taken relative to injection?

Do you have the reference ranges?

Any other tests?

It certainly seems like high E2 for where total test is and with your symptoms.

 

[lookingforhelp]

I believe he said it would be Arimidex. And I would have to use a pill cutter and take a tiny bit of it. He did say sizes but it has slipped my mind! I will know soon enough when it arrives in the post! He is the only Dr in the UK that I have come across that will listen to you and read studies and most importantly.... TRY things.

It was roughly around a month after being on HCG mono.

I understand your efforts to maintain a relationship with this doctor who, though certainly not at the cutting edge of androgen management, is certainly better than what you might find anywhere else. That said, it's always best to discover what is being prescribed and not wait for the letter carrier to drop it in the box as a surprise. What will a "tiny, tiny dose of an AI once a week" be? It may well be just the ticket to bring things into line...or - given the challenges of managing estradiol levels that seem to be elevated due to HCG - it may not. How much time passed between protocol adjustments and your most recent lab work?

 

[lookingforhelp]

The tests were taken on a monday morning right before my next shot of HCG. I dose MWF.

I posted the reference ranges on the first page of the thread

Ive had just about every test you can imagine in the last two years but only those few recently.

Can you say when these were taken relative to injection?

Do you have the reference ranges?

Any other tests?

It certainly seems like high E2 for where total test is and with your symptoms.

 

[johndoesmith]

The tests were taken on a monday morning right before my next shot of HCG. I dose MWF.

I posted the reference ranges on the first page of the thread

Ive had just about every test you can imagine in the last two years but only those few recently.

I do think it's high E2 most likely. Hopefully you get straightened out!

 

[lookingforhelp]

Thanks for your help! I love this forum. It is by far the best on the internet!!... and I am a member of a few. Everyone always seems willing to help! I am hoping if I can get myself sorted out with all of this that I will then be wise enough to come back and help others with their issues.

I do think it's high E2 most likely. Hopefully you get straightened out!

 

[johndoesmith]

Thanks for your help! I love this forum. It is by far the best on the internet!!... and I am a member of a few. Everyone always seems willing to help! I am hoping if I can get myself sorted out with all of this that I will then be wise enough to come back and help others with their issues.

That's what I did. Back 9-10 months ago, I didn't know much, and felt like crap. With help of this forum and others, I feel better, and am somewhat knowledgeable.

 

[lookingforhelp]

Just a quick Update. My Dr gave me a prescription for Arimidex 1 mg tablets. 1/4 of a tablet to be taken twice weakly. Being extra cautious, I decided to get an extra E2 level checked by a private lab. They do not offer the sensitive in the UK.

It came in as:

E2: 106.9 pmol/l (44-156) If the online calculator is correct this translates to 28 pg/ml.
Testosterone: 650 ng/dl. Came up a little.


I took these bloods on the Monday morning before my next shot. I dose MWF.

The problem now is obviously I do not want to take an AI. I have however been feeling a little anxious after injections, feeling off, less energy, tired and extremely irritable. Bad mood, low libido and my Penis isnt hanging full. I also feel bloated at some points. Erections and morning wood are rubbish.

So far my digestion is one of the only remaining improvements.

Can anyone shed some light on what is going on? I know my SHBG is still high, it has been for the last few years. It used to come in around the 30 nmol/l mark. Now it is always 45 plus it seems. Is this causing my shitty symptoms? I have read of other guys needing to boost their T dosage to raise free T. I have also read that some guys feel nothing from HCG.
I am not sure whats going on really. I initially felt something from the HCG and now there isnt much marked improvement at all? My balls seem to feel fuller but have their moments of being smaller and soft.

Another thing to add is that I now wake up with more joint pain than before. Since I have been ill I have had swollen fingers in the morning. Inflammation? low T symptom? Now I have a bad back every morning. Feels muscular.

My thyroid is optimal and when I briefly took T3 to try and clear RT3 all it did was raise my SHBG further.
I am extremely lean and eat healthy. My adrenals seem good as I have had many tests and been down that road before hand. I cant think what else would be causing these symptoms other than Testosterone.

Any advice? Should I give the HCG more time or should I try and get on T injections?

 

[lookingforhelp]

Okay, I have been doing some thinking and I just thought I would voice my thoughts. Being that my E2 isnt that high, could the bloating be from high cortisol? Could the HCG be stimulating cortisol production too much? I feel bloated, my digestion seems to be all over the place, feels like a lot of gas (belching etc), I feel really stimulated, wired and thirsty a lot. I am also having trouble sleeping (but tired)... and I read somewhere regarding high cortisol that it can cause aches and pains?

Has anyone ever experienced HCG doing this?

 

[johndoesmith]

Okay, I have been doing some thinking and I just thought I would voice my thoughts. Being that my E2 isnt that high, could the bloating be from high cortisol? Could the HCG be stimulating cortisol production too much? I feel bloated, my digestion seems to be all over the place, feels like a lot of gas (belching etc), I feel really stimulated, wired and thirsty a lot. I am also having trouble sleeping (but tired)... and I read somewhere regarding high cortisol that it can cause aches and pains?

Has anyone ever experienced HCG doing this?

Honestly, and don't take this the wrong way, but I think you're overthinking this. You have a lot of symptoms, and they're all over the place, but your labs seem fine, therefore I don't think it's hormonal.

hCG doesn't have an effect on cortisol to my knowledge, and "high cortisol" is called Cushing's syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cushing's_syndrome

 

[lookingforhelp]

It doesnt explain my brief improvement with HCG though. Ive gone back to a shrivelled flaccid hang amongst things. I understand where you are coming from and I might sound like a nut job but whatever has done this to me, be it head injury or saw palmetto.... it has really fu*%ed me up. I am trying to understand my body more and more and have come a long way. I have gone from a fit young healthy guy with the sex drive of an animal, to someone who doesn't have the energy to walk up a hill and who has erectile dysfunction and a waning libido. It has to be something hormonally.

I am hoping that I am one of those guys who has a response to HCG via blood work but not in symptoms.

I wanted to keep this thread updated incase it can help anyone out there in a similar situation.