HCG Monotherapy. Success so far and questions.

[CoastWatcher]

I think my lowest was around 5 pgml (22-40). Climbed to 12 at one point but stayed that way for around a year. UK Endos say estrogens have no known role in men. Honestly I mentioned low E2 to my last endo (baring in mind he is in charge of a lot of guys TRT) and he said that he didn't know anything about controlling Estrogens and did not bother doing such a thing as there is no known evidence regarding it in men.. He also charged me 250 pounds per appointment. Needless to say I didn't see him again!

Luckily I have a great Dr now!

So many men have similar stories. Keep us posted - all the best!

 

[lookingforhelp]

One thing I wanted to ask you all whilst we are on the topic of E2.

I had a lot of joint cracking, particularly my right hip. It has improved some since being on HCG but still does it occasionally and is uncomfortable. Does it take time for the body to repair the damage of low E2? Im obviously not expecting a miracle over night but I figured someone here would have some knowledge on how long it takes to reverse this process.

 

[Vince]

One thing I wanted to ask you all whilst we are on the topic of E2.

I had a lot of joint cracking, particularly my right hip. It has improved some since being on HCG but still does it occasionally and is uncomfortable. Does it take time for the body to repair the damage of low E2? Im obviously not expecting a miracle over night but I figured someone here would have some knowledge on how long it takes to reverse this process.

Most people that had low E2, say it can take a very long time.

 

[johndoesmith]

One thing I wanted to ask you all whilst we are on the topic of E2.

I had a lot of joint cracking, particularly my right hip. It has improved some since being on HCG but still does it occasionally and is uncomfortable. Does it take time for the body to repair the damage of low E2? Im obviously not expecting a miracle over night but I figured someone here would have some knowledge on how long it takes to reverse this process.

About 6-8 weeks. This also assumes your HCG is raising test and E2 to decent levels, if not, then this timeline won't apply.

 

[lookingforhelp]

UPDATE:

I just had my blood tests back and they confirm what I expected. Also they show why I probably felt some initial improvement within the first week and it then tapered off.


TOTAL TESTOSTERONE: 20 nmol/l (9.4-37) 576 ngdl. This has not raised that much really?

SHBG : 45 nmol/l Outside reference range. (15-40) This has remained high for some time now.

E2: 162 pmol/l (<130) This works out at 44 pgml which is high!

PROLACTIN: 384 miu/L (508-400)

ALBUMIN: 46 g/L (35-50)


TSH: 2.1 miu/L

I have a full blood count too which I will upload by a picture.

What do you guys think I should do now? I would prefer not to have to use an AI unless I really have to as I believe I am very sensitive to E2 levels. I dont want to end up crashing my E2 again as Low E2 is horrible. I think I passed my sweet spot in a sense. Thats why I initially felt so much better.

Your advice would be much appreciated. Should I lower the HCG dose and just start TRT?

Libido, erections etc have gone down hill. Mood is okay, better than when my E2 levels were low but I am very tired again. Ive noticed some nipple puffiness and softer testicles. Also I urinate less frequently now. Seems like once a day. Water retention?

 

[Vince]

lookingforhelp, I would follow a complete restart protocol, it's the only to know for sure if it will work. If you're going to do it, follow through the whole program.

 

[lookingforhelp]

Hi Vince,

Thanks for your quick reply. In terms of the restart and using Clomid. I am going to try and avoid that for the moment. However, it isnt something I will not explore at some point! By no means am I ungrateful for your advice either! I have read about sides with Clomid etc and I would like to see if its possible first of all to feel ''well'' again from all of this balancing out my hormones via TRT. If I can dial it in and I know its possible to be normal for once then I will try with a restart. I have read limited success stories regarding restarts but maybe I am wrong and uneducated in terms of that.

 

[Vince]

Nelson does have paid consultations, you could look into the cost and consider one.

 

[johndoesmith]

UPDATE:

I just had my blood tests back and they confirm what I expected. Also they show why I probably felt some initial improvement within the first week and it then tapered off.


TOTAL TESTOSTERONE: 20 nmol/l (9.4-37) 576 ngdl. This has not raised that much really?

SHBG : 45 nmol/l Outside reference range. (15-40) This has remained high for some time now.

E2: 162 pmol/l (<130) This works out at 44 pgml which is high!

PROLACTIN: 384 miu/L (508-400)

ALBUMIN: 46 g/L (35-50)


TSH: 2.1 miu/L

I have a full blood count too which I will upload by a picture.

What do you guys think I should do now? I would prefer not to have to use an AI unless I really have to as I believe I am very sensitive to E2 levels. I dont want to end up crashing my E2 again as Low E2 is horrible. I think I passed my sweet spot in a sense. Thats why I initially felt so much better.

Your advice would be much appreciated. Should I lower the HCG dose and just start TRT?

Libido, erections etc have gone down hill. Mood is okay, better than when my E2 levels were low but I am very tired again. Ive noticed some nipple puffiness and softer testicles. Also I urinate less frequently now. Seems like once a day. Water retention?

Wow, that's not quite the response you're looking for.

What's interesting is that SHBG is rather high, but total test is rather low. E2 is fairly high as well for where total test is.

I never understood the allure of hCG mono vs TRT, as they are both suppressive to the HPTA, with hCG offering no significant benefit that I'm aware of relative to TRT.

I'm not quite sure what to tell you in this case, other than it doesn't look like a great response, and the symptom relief isn't what you want for a protocol. Sorry man.

 

[lookingforhelp]

No not at all really. The thing that is strange is that from my understanding SHBG can raise with high e2. I had the same SHBG with low e2. Maybe exogenous testosterone is the only thing to lower it.

I still believe there are positive effects of the HCG. It definitely does something... it's like I'm still missing a piece of the puzzle. I think hcg has helped me with my well being. Sleep and little things improved quite a bit.

I am taking 300iu every MWF. If anyone can add in anything through experience please let me know!

 

[lookingforhelp]

Here is my blood count

 

[lookingforhelp]

Bump, anyone?

I am travelling abroad for christmas and I have to notify the airline of my medication. Hoping to have
sorted it out a bit by then. They want a Drs note regarding exact dosages, syringes etc.

I am hoping to have a phone conversation with my Dr tomorrow. He is fully booked for appointments until after christmas! Just hoping to have a direction to discuss with him!

 

[johndoesmith]

No not at all really. The thing that is strange is that from my understanding SHBG can raise with high e2. I had the same SHBG with low e2. Maybe exogenous testosterone is the only thing to lower it.

I still believe there are positive effects of the HCG. It definitely does something... it's like I'm still missing a piece of the puzzle. I think hcg has helped me with my well being. Sleep and little things improved quite a bit.

I am taking 300iu every MWF. If anyone can add in anything through experience please let me know!

Well I didn't say that it's weird your SHBG is high, I said it's weird that with your high end SHBG I'd expect to see a higher total testosterone level.

What's your vitamin D level?

You may just need a dose increase and possibly an AI.

Here is my blood count

Blood count looks like one that I'd expect in a guy with low testosterone. Low end RBC, HCT, and slightly low range HGB. Not sure about the low white count.

TSH is 2.1. That's honestly all you can say about an isolated TSH test.

Bump, anyone?

I am travelling abroad for christmas and I have to notify the airline of my medication. Hoping to have
sorted it out a bit by then. They want a Drs note regarding exact dosages, syringes etc.

I am hoping to have a phone conversation with my Dr tomorrow. He is fully booked for appointments until after christmas! Just hoping to have a direction to discuss with him!

I am pretty sure the office staff can write a letter such as that one for you.

More likely than not, based upon experiences I've read from other men, airports don't care too much about syringes and vials of what's obviously pharmaceutical products. Best to have documentation.

Where are you flying to exactly? Some countries are worse than others.

 

[lookingforhelp]

Thanks for the quick reply!

I supplement with Vitamin D every morning. I have had levels checked numerous times and they are near the top of the range.

In terms of the AI, from what I understand, the AI does nothing for the intratesticular E2? If I am suffering with that level of E2 at this dose I am concerned that it will only make things worse raising the dose! I am disappointed that I seem to aromatase so much on HCG.


I am glad you mentioned about the blood count. I've wondered what those levels meant in relation to testosterone levels! They have been about the same for the last two years, every time I am checked its all low/ borderline low.

I am flying to Sweden. I rang the airline regarding everything and they said I needed a Drs note explaining the exact amount of needles, syringes, medication etc I am carrying. I would hate to get to the airport and be denied the flight. It would ruin christmas for my family. Better safe than sorry!

I am wondering whether I should just lower my HCG dose and start Testosterone with it?

 

[Vince Carter]

It is true that an AI is less effective, (not inneffective) as the same aromatization occurs but it's the testicular environment that makes an AI less effective.

 

[johndoesmith]

Thanks for the quick reply!

I supplement with Vitamin D every morning. I have had levels checked numerous times and they are near the top of the range.

If you happen to have the test results it would be helpful but not necessary. I trust that it is top of range, correlating to 200nmol/l or 100ng/ml?

In terms of the AI, from what I understand, the AI does nothing for the intratesticular E2? If I am suffering with that level of E2 at this dose I am concerned that it will only make things worse raising the dose! I am disappointed that I seem to aromatase so much on HCG.

AI is less effective, yes, but 2 questions come to mind, 1 are you experiencing high E2 symptoms? Sometimes there are symptoms that are transient and appear high E2 like, but in fact go away, usually because of suddenly higher levels somewhat "shocking" the body. I hate that phrase lol.

2. I can't seem to find consistent testosterone and E2 tests of yours PRE hCG. You mentioned mostly being low E2, so I'm going to go with that, although I do seem to recall looking at one(not the recent one) that was high.

I am glad you mentioned about the blood count. I've wondered what those levels meant in relation to testosterone levels! They have been about the same for the last two years, every time I am checked its all low/ borderline low.

Yeah that's fairly common and not much to worry about IMO, unless you're having anemia like symptoms, it could be mild IDA.

I am flying to Sweden. I rang the airline regarding everything and they said I needed a Drs note explaining the exact amount of needles, syringes, medication etc I am carrying. I would hate to get to the airport and be denied the flight. It would ruin christmas for my family. Better safe than sorry!

IIRC Sweden is one of the most anti testosterone countries in the world, so it is imperative to have your ducks in a row!

I am wondering whether I should just lower my HCG dose and start Testosterone with it?

Personally, I never saw the point of hCG mono, as it's still suppressive but not usually as effective as TRT. Not really sure of what the goal is with hCG monotherapy, it's not going to "restart" you like clomid is, and isn't successful for many.

 

[lookingforhelp]

I haven't got the Vitamin D lab results to hand but I did start supplementing it when I realised it could be improved. The last result I had was roughly around the 85 ng/ml mark . I will dig them up when I am home.

I am currently experiencing what I believe to be high E2 symptoms. I lived with low E2 for so long I know how that feels. My nipples are puffy, I get quite bad anxiety occasionally but can cope with it, feels like my heart is going to jump out! Lower libido (with low e2 I literally had none), Weak erections and no spontaneous. I know high and low E2 share similar symptoms but my last test was 44 pg/ml having been at 11 and below for two years. This is not the sensitive test as I am in the UK.

My fiance is Swedish so I am over there a lot. Need to make sure I can get it smoothed out so there are not going to be problems consistently! Sweden is very against a lot of things! Haha

I felt like HCG was a good way to test the waters in terms of TRT. I can admit I was a little apprehensive about starting Testosterone so this suited me. Now I have seen how I can feel (the first week on HCG was promising) I do not care how I get back there. Life is for living! If I have to go on Testosterone injections too so be it.

Thanks for taking your time to post.

 

[lookingforhelp]

UPDATE

Spoke to my Dr this morning. He suggested trying a tiny dose of Arimidex once a week before going to Testosterone therapy.

With my results:

Total T: 576 ngdl
E2: 44 pg/ml (high)
SHBG 45 nmol/l (high)

Will these improve? I have suffered with low e2 for a while so I am a little concerned of crashing my levels and feeling like shit. How long does E2 take to recover?

 

[lookingforhelp]

Okay, thought I would bump this thread.

I still have some of the clicky joints remaining. Probably from having low E2 for so long. Can someone advise me if taking Armidex at this point would be wise? Since starting my HCG mono it has come up to 44 pg/ml. I dont have access to the sensitive test as I am in UK.

I dont want to crash my E2 as I seem to be sensitive to estrogens.

Thanks

 

[CoastWatcher]

UPDATE

Spoke to my Dr this morning. He suggested trying a tiny dose of Arimidex once a week before going to Testosterone therapy.

With my results:

Total T: 576 ngdl
E2: 44 pg/ml (high)
SHBG 45 nmol/l (high)

Will these improve? I have suffered with low e2 for a while so I am a little concerned of crashing my levels and feeling like shit. How long does E2 take to recover?

Can you expand on your doctor's remark that you should take an AI "before going to testosterone therapy?" Having dealt with low levels of estradiol, and knowing it's a miserable place to find yourself, you want to send your levels down again?