HCG Mono Therapy - No Libido or Sex Drive?!

[Aleeri]

Aleeri, we've all had our misadventures at the endo's office. How the heck these guys go about treating patients without bothering to get essential labs is beyond us. Forgive me for deducing things based upon partial data. Can you point to a single mention in any study that supports hCG use to raise free T in a man with healthy tot T levels? It's not done because it perturbs the axis as you can clearly see from your lowered LH FSH values. If Dr. Hansa has a novel theory on using hCG to decrease SHBG in high T men with healthy gonadal function please let him know he is very welcome here to drop in and explain his protocol.

If you had baseline labs in your natural state including E2 by LC/MS/MS which isn't available to you, you'd have more support here on the AI use. Perhaps there are other men with healthy tot T levels who are not on T or other AAS that are using AI. I've never heard of any. I don't believe you've reported gyno. You report symptoms that may or may not be due to high estrogens. You're convinced AI is helping. I don't find the Rx for AI nearly as disturbing as the use of hCG and that's coming from someone who is an advocate of hCG where indicated.

If thyroid and adrenals are issues for you lets have those whose specialty that is lend their expertise.

No there is no such study and it doesn't make sense of course. I agree I more and more start feeling like my doc just want to earn money of me on treatments.

No worries it is so hard to relate a whole medical history of many years into a few posts with words. Anyways I am stopping any AI or HCG use. I will continue low dose HGH anyhow because of the extra benefits without being to supressive. Also I will continue low dose DHEA because it was low before and look into ways to get progesterone back up.

Yes I have started looking for an a new doctor and endo to get second opinion.

Thanks for your time.

 

[Re-Ride]

I'm glad you are discontinuing hCG. You may want to have low dose Clomid on hand first or something else to speed recovery of your LH production. I'm not a doctor. Keep us informed of how you are feeling. Your T will crash in the absence of both the hCG LH analog and real LH. Don't panic. The fatigue will begin lifting after a few days and gradually improve steadily.

Apologies again for summarizing your experience in the way I did which was done in part to discourage others from haphazard experimentation. I do believe in potential benefit of certain herbs as legitimate alternative therapy. Too bad most of what is sold is fake or the wrong part of the plant or the alleged benefits never materialize. Most of us have tried herbs with varying degrees of success. There are even those who swear by certain herbs as part of PCT. If you ever find yourself tempted to use AAS while you still have normal T remember this experience because it can be 10x worse coming off steroids.

 

[Aleeri]

I'm glad you are discontinuing hCG. You may want to have low dose Clomid on hand first or something else to speed recovery of your LH production. I'm not a doctor. Keep us informed of how you are feeling. Your T will crash in the absence of both the hCG LH analog and real LH. Don't panic. The fatigue will begin lifting after a few days and gradually improve steadily.

Apologies again for summarizing your experience in the way I did which was done in part to discourage others from haphazard experimentation. I do believe in potential benefit of certain herbs as legitimate alternative therapy. Too bad most of what is sold is fake or the wrong part of the plant or the alleged benefits never materialize. Most of us have tried herbs with varying degrees of success. There are even those who swear by certain herbs as part of PCT. If you ever find yourself tempted to use AAS while you still have normal T remember this experience because it can be 10x worse coming off steroids.

I have some Fadogia agrestis (T-force) at home, impulse buy some time back. Many seem to use it as PCT. Worth a shot while coming off HCG?

That's ok, you are right on your points, I can see how many people might go for the legal steroids etc in the hopes that it will fix something. I always prefer a natural solution but I also respect the fast improvements that can be seen with modern medicine.

 

[Re-Ride]

There is an argument for staying on at least low dose AI while you recover. The claim is to maximize available T. Doesn't seem unreasonable to use a natural T booster either but I wouldn't shy away from low dose Clomid if offered by the doc. Here's a typical but older bb thread on the subject:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=3293141

 

[Bama Boy]

Man that E2 is some risky business . So much to learn !

 

[Aleeri]

Man that E2 is some risky business . So much to learn !

Yeah E2 is the biggest challenge I think, you don't want it to high or to low. And every time you boost T you also boost E. Tricky one for sure.

 

[Bama Boy]

Yeah E2 is the biggest challenge I think, you don't want it to high or to low. And every time you boost T you also boost E. Tricky one for sure.

You are right and its scary as HELL ! I think in a month or so I am going to try DEFY a lot of guys here seem to be happy with them .

 

[Aleeri]

You are right and its scary as HELL ! I think in a month or so I am going to try DEFY a lot of guys here seem to be happy with them .

Yeah I am currently in touch with them also even though I am not located in the US. Thinking about having them review all my lab work. Heard good things about them and I've seen Dr Saya's posts on different forums, seems to know his stuff for sure.

 

[Aleeri]

Here is temperature from yesterday:


I woke up between 11:30am and 12pm:


**temp 12pm= 36.1 celsius (96.98 f)**
**temp 2pm=36.6 celsius**
**temp 5pm=36.7 celsius**


From what I understand anything below 97.3 f in the morning is likely signs of hypothyroidism. Considering my iodine is also low, I have symptoms and from what I understand labs can sometimes be normal even in these cases.


**Is it likely that I am hypothyroid?**

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10518398
**Anemias are diagnosed in 20-60% patients with hypothyroidism**

http://njthyroidsolutions.com/understanding-thyroid-markers-and-panels


Although the human growth gene does not contain a thyroid hormone response, the thyroid does have influences on the synthesis of IGF-1 in the liver. **Adequate amounts of thyroid hormones are required for the healthy production of IGF-1. Anytime reduced IGF-1 markers are demonstrated, thyroid dysfunction must be ruled out. The reduced potential to synthesize IGF-1 may be partly due to the loss of anabolism in hypothyroidism.**

http://chriskresser.com/5-ways-that-stress-causes-hypothyroid-symptoms/


**Seems to be common with low cortisol from hypothyroid issues also or adrenal fatigue causing it in the first place.**

 

[Aleeri]

Just to follow up a bit on this.


I have successfully improved several of my test parameters and is in a better shape now then before. Maybe this can help some people with similar issues.

I switched to a more “primal” diet, removing all grains and starchy carbs and emphasis on meats, eggs, nuts, fruits and veggies. I already had dairy and artificial sugars out of my diet before. I also started drinking tea 5 cups a day. Supplement iodine 50mg a day.


This has started normalising my Cholesterol now, improvements on all points since last time:

Cholesterol Total: 167 mg/dL (before: 202)
Triglyceride: 36 mg/dL (before: 54)
HDL: 44 mg/dL (before: 46)
LDL: 108 mg/dL (before: 134)


My PSA is halved now which is cool considering they usually recommend low fat for this and I have been eating lots of fats:


PSA: 0.663 ng/mL (before: 1.2)


I've been taking notoginseng, iron protein plus from LE, Lactoferrin:


This has bumped my RBC, Ferritin, Hemoglobin, Hematocrit up and I am no longer anemic (within normal range now). I think within the end of the year I will be back in mid normal range.


I started Fadogia Agrestis supplementation and after 40 days, my total T and free T has increased. Unfortunately my SHBG has also but I think this also has to do with my increased tea intake and progesterone cream I have been taking help my low cortisol and progesterone.


I think I overdid the progesterone because my E2 is low now, doesn't show up on the normal test (this is not sensitive test). I think I screwed my E2 test up also because I took progesterone before bed day before test in morning. I also took more then usual because leak from bottle.


However I do not feel any symptoms of low E and I have felt good. I had low E from AI use before and this is not same feeling. Anyhow I will be dropping the Progesterone now.


Total T: 9.898 ng/mL (before: 6.10)
Free T: 134 pg/mL (before: 88)
SHBG: 74.5 nmol/L (before: 58.2)
E2: < 10 pg/mL (before: 25)


That's something like a 50% increase in Free T which I am quite happy about and I am now within normal range even if it could go up a bit more.


I have seen more progress in my health from all natural treatments then anything the doctor could give me. I am happy that I stopped HCG, AI and that I did not try T gels or injections.


Worth to notice is that I have been working out only once a week and not very intense training during the last two months, so this is improvements only from diet and supplements alone. Now I am off work and adding exercise 3 times weekly minimum.