HCG Mono Therapy - No Libido or Sex Drive?!

[Re-Ride]

I emailed a clinic here in Singapore this morning, thinking I am going to pay a bit extra and just get estradiol tested now so I know if I should stop Arimidex or not. Does Arimidex cause rebound estrogen?

The LC/MS/MS estradiol assay is expensive and even in the U.S. only performed at specialized labs. A search for availability of this test in the far east yielded no result. I can't imagine trying to stabilize a complex case like yours in any protocol which employs a powerful AI like Arimidex in the absence of tight monitoring. Given the purported propensity of hCG to raise E2, you and your doc might want to re-think how appropriate it is for you. If it were me in your shoes, in the absence of the monthly or bimonthly testing that is indicated early in the protocol, I'd be looking to find the lowest dose of hCG that yielded a positive result on a few of the symptoms. I would not entertain expectations that hCG mono w/ or w/o AI is the answer.

I suggested trying EOD because you reported slumps in your trough byond day two. Given all you've disclosed including the lack of good insurance coverage you might want to consider limiting hCG to under 250 IU per dose for now. Since I am neither a doctor nor an expert consider this number to be completely arbitrary yet possibly wise for patients with above average aromatization. Gene suggests you look elsewhere for solutions. I agree although not for reason he gave. The high T club is known for its strong armed bouncers. Not all get admitted. A serum goal much lower than 700-1200 ng/dL total T might be the ideal for certain patients. Bioavailable and other markers could easily be more useful. Keep reporting your experience and progress here.

 

[Aleeri]

Thanks Re-Ride,

After all you guys help and feedback here along with reading up on this even more myself I think I got some good leads on which way to go. I have labs booked for Saturday next week, I go to a private clinic so will get results back same day.

HCG was a good test I think to see if by increasing total T, we could get SHBG down and/or increase free T. I have a feeling that something must have helped except the Arimidex overuse that seem to give me problems after 4-5 weeks. I agree that ideally I do not want to be one a protocol that requires use of an AI. I see HCG more as a short term test to see if it can solve my T problem.

I want to get my DHT within normal range through natural supplementation of Theaflavin, since I do not benefit in libido from it and have lot's of side effects like hairloss. Will start this after labs.

I'll post back when I have my results and with are more detailed plan of action. Appreciate all your input!

 

[Aleeri]

new labs

Ok guys I finally have an update with labs. This is after doing the following protocol for 2 months:


DHEA oral 12.5mg, Pregnenolone oral 25mg, HGH injections 2 IU before bed, HCG 500 IU x3 week, 0,5mg Arimidex x3 week


I skipped Arimidex 10 days counting up to lab, thought I had gone to low E from how I felt.


I took my last HCG injection 3 days prior to test.



Total Testosterone - 6.10 ng/mL - ref: 2.8-8 ng/mL
SHBG - 58.2 nmol/L - HIGH - ref: 10-60 nmol/L
Albumin - 4.6 g/dL - ref: 3.5-5.2 g/dL
Free Testosterone - 88 pg/mL - LOW - ref: 90-300 pg/mL
% Free Testosterone - 1.44 % of Total - LOW - ref: 2-4.8 % of Total
Bioavailable Testosterone - 219 ng/dL -
% Bioavailable Testosterone - 36% of Total -



Progesterone - 0.19 ng/mL - LOW - ref: 0.3 ng/mL (Men age 18-29)
Estradiol (Regular test, no access to ultra sensitive etc) - pg/mL - BORDERLINE LOW - ref: 25.8-60.7 pg/mL
FSH - 2.5 mIU/mL - ref: 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL
LH - 2.6 mIU/mL - ref: 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL



DHEA-S - 469 ug/dL - ref: 80-560 ug/dL
Cortisol (Serum, Morning-Noon) - 6.6 ug/dL (10:18am) - LOW - ref: 6.24-18 ug/dL Morning



IGF-1 - 159 ng/mL - ref: 81-424 ng/mL
Prolactin - 12.19 ng/mL - BORDERLINE HIGH? - ref: 4-15 ng/mL

Ferritin - 89 ng/mL - ref: 30-400 ng/mL
Vitamin B12 - 479.1 pg/mL - ref: 197-771 pg/mL
-

WBC - 4270 cells/mm^3 - LOW - ref: 5000 - 10000
Neutrophil - 54% Low - ref: 55 - 75
Lymphocyte - 35% - ref: 20 - 45 OR 20 - 35
Monocyte - 7% High - ref: 2 - 6
Eosinophil - 3% - ref: 1 - 3
Basophil - 1% - ref: 0 - 1
RBC count - 4.75 Mcells/mm^3 - ref: 4.5 - 6.0
Haemoglobin - 13.2 g/dL - LOW - ref: 14 - 18
Hematocrits - 41% - BORDERLINE LOW - ref: 41 - 51
MCV - 85.7 fL - ref: 80 - 98
MCH - 27.8 pg - ref: 27 - 32
MCHC - 32.4 g/dL - ref: 32 - 35
RDW - 13.2% - ref: 11.8 - 15.6
Platelet count - 234 - 10^3 cells/cu.mm. - ref: 150 - 400
RBC Morphology - Normal



25 - Hydroxy Vitamin D total - 85.80 ng/mL - ref: >= 30 ng/mL
Magnesium; Serum - 2.2 mg/dL - ref: 1.6 - 2.6 mg/dL
Sugar; Glucose NaF (Fasting) - 74 mg/dL - ref: 70 - 110 mg/dL
Zinc; Serum - 99 ug/dL - ref: 70 - 170 ug/dL
ACTH (EDTA) - 28.3 pg/mL - ref: 0 - 71 pg/mL
Urine iodine - 57.4 ug/L - LOW - ref: 90 - 230 ug/L

Cholesterol - 202 mg/dL - HIGH - ref: < 200
Triglyceride - 54 mg/dL - ref: < 150
HDL-Cholesterol - 46 mg/dL - LOW - ref: > 60
LDL-Cholesterol - 134 mg/dL - HIGH - ref: < 100

# Liver Function Test:
Total Protein - 6.8 g/dL - ref: 6.0 - 8.3
Albumin - 4.5 g/dL - ref: 3.5 - 5.0
Globulin - 2.3 g/dL - ref: 2.1 - 3.3
Albumin/Globulin - 1.9 - HIGH - ref: 1.0 - 1.8
Total Bilirubin - 0.9 mg/dL - ref: 0.2 - 1.2
Direct Bilirubin - 0.3 mg/dL - ref: 0.0 - 0.5
AST (SGOT) - 31 U/L - ref: 5 - 34
ALT (SGPT) - 24 U/L - ref: 0 - 55
Alkaline Phosphatase - 54 U/L - ref: 40 - 150

# Electrolyte:
Sodium - 137 mEq/L - ref: 135 - 150
Potassium - 4 mEq/L - ref: 3.5 - 5.5
Chloride - 104 mEq/L - ref: 95 - 110
Total CO2 - 27 mEq/L - ref: 22 - 30




My ideas and take aways are the following:


HCG does not do much for me other then give me temporary mood boost from LH receptor stimulation in the body. Does not affect my labs much other then raising prolactin? I am thinking I want to stop it, i.e. feels like a waste to continue.


Progesterone is LOW, adrenal fatigue? Probable reason to my low cortisol since lack of building blocks for cortisol? I bought a transdermal cream I want to try low dose.


Estradiol is borderline low now so was a good call to stop Arimidex. I don't feel I want to take an AI because of all these issues it presents with potential low E.


Ferritin move a tiny bit up but RBC not much. I am switching to another type of Iron Protein Plus from Life Extension, also adding Lactoferrin and Liposomal Vitamin C for absorption. Also adding Panax Notoginseng for increasing RBC.


Monocytes and Neutrophils seems to be out of range on this and past tests, low grade infection going on?


Iodine is LOW, this is a surprise. I am thinking that maybe I am hyporthyroid even though my thyroid panel always seems OK. Last time T4 was high so maybe conversion issue? I sure have all the symptoms of hypo including cold hands and feet, hair loss, dry hair and skin, fatigue etc.


Cholesterol is imbalanced because testosterone and iodine issues?

 

[Re-Ride]

Is nadrolone available to you?

 

[Aleeri]

Is nadrolone available to you?

Yes probably, I live in Bangkok. I can probably buy most things here.

I don't know much about nandrolone, could you fill me in on why it would be a good idea in my case?

I am wary of steroids, I never used them and thought most of them where a bad idea. From what I understand nandrolone needs to be run with testosterone injections?

 

[Re-Ride]

Yes it needs to be run with T. You'd want to consult with an MD. Download Nelson's free e book about it's use. It might raise your hematocrit. You'd want to know a lot more than that before trying it. Lot's of pp here wish they had access to it.

 

[Aleeri]

Yes it needs to be run with T. You'd want to consult with an MD. Download Nelson's free e book about it's use. It might raise your hematocrit. You'd want to know a lot more than that before trying it. Lot's of pp here wish they had access to it.

Which ebook is that? I did a quick search but did not find, is it "Built to Survive"?

But it seems overkill to me no? Since I might have to go on TRT and Arimidex just to be able to take Deca without issues.

I do understand the benefits though when it comes to hematocrit and IGF-1. But it seems like a solution that might present new problems in itself.

 

[Re-Ride]

...it seems like a solution that might present new problems in itself.

Too many have no choice other than to seek advice on line, proceed with self care and hope for the best as C.W. likes to say. You ask questions which indicate you are hard at work researching. You've trained yourself to be a good observer. Last month I suggested that you consider if hCG mono is right for you. Others with more eperience than a beginner like myself will be welcome here in commenting on the theories you've put forth. All I can do is confirm that after a year on hCG mono I'm not realizing the same lasting benefits in energy and well being that I initially felt. This in itself doesn't mean much since I'm challenged with other complex issues.

Yes I was referring to Built to Survive. And yes, by self-treating with AAS you may luck out after months of trial and error and hit upon a protocol that works. The risk of doing yourself serious harm seems greater than what you are doing now. I suggest you include nandrolone in your research but not try it without medical supervision.

 

[Aleeri]

Too many have no choice other than to seek advice on line, proceed with self care and hope for the best as C.W. likes to say. You ask questions which indicate you are hard at work researching. You've trained yourself to be a good observer. Last month I suggested that you consider if hCG mono is right for you. Others with more eperience than a beginner like myself will be welcome here in commenting on the theories you've put forth. All I can do is confirm that after a year on hCG mono I'm not realizing the same lasting benefits in energy and well being that I initially felt. This in itself doesn't mean much since I'm challenged with other complex issues.

Yes I was referring to Built to Survive. And yes, by self-treating with AAS you may luck out after months of trial and error and hit upon a protocol that works. The risk of doing yourself serious harm seems greater than what you are doing now. I suggest you include nandrolone in your research but not try it without medical supervision.

Thanks Re-Ride, I appreciate the tip and I have already saved down about 20 articles on nandrolone to read when I have the opportunity to dig into it. I'll grab a copy of Nelsons book as well on Amazon, always interested in these things even if I won't be using them.

For sure a successful cycle of T and Deca would bring my levels back up and I would be in much better shape physically as well as mentally. The question is of course what about when I stop it. What will happen, will I have side effects that persist for longer etc. It feels like a great backup plan though if everything else fails.

I have problems with modern medicine since so much of it is based on treating symptoms and not solving the actual problem. Hormones seems very complex and like we have not even scratched the surface of it all yet. I am sure there is a reason for every imbalance and some way of correcting it to bring back homeostasis, the problem is just finding it.

I will try to get my iron, prog and iodine levels up and hope that it helps these issues. I'll back off on the HCG.

 

[Re-Ride]

Aleeri, Are you sure there are no skilled docs in Bangkok qualified to review your case?

I believe that you already understand why you won't be doing cycles. The consensus seems to be that at <200 mg/week and in concert with t-cyp the risk for ED is very small from nandrolone. Can one restore endocrine systems to a healthy state naturally? What process regenerates glandular tissue?

 

[CoastWatcher]

I have problems with modern medicine since so much of it is based on treating symptoms and not solving the actual problem. Hormones seems very complex and like we have not even scratched the surface of it all yet. I am sure there is a reason for every imbalance and some way of correcting it to bring back homeostasis, the problem is just finding it.

What you write may well be rooted in truth. But if treatment was withheld until we fully understood the "reason for every imbalance," many of us would have a miserable quality of life...waiting for the moment that science cracked open the problem and answered the question.

 

[Aleeri]

Aleeri, Are you sure there are no skilled docs in Bangkok qualified to review your case?

I believe that you already understand why you won't be doing cycles. The consensus seems to be that at <200 mg/week and in concert with t-cyp the risk for ED is very small from nandrolone. Can one restore endocrine systems to a healthy state naturally? What process regenerates glandular tissue?

This is my current doctor, Dr Hansa:

http://www.add-life.org/addlife/en/doctor

I picked him because he's worked in USA from 1975 to 1995 and on and off to 2014 even. He has American education credentials and on two boards.

He is good but I get the feeling that he rather put me on TRT and relive my free T then actually investigate my real problem. He is very helpful in offering whatever I might need, we tried HCG, HGH, hydrocortisone, arimidex, pregnenolone, dhea etc.

Maybe he would be up for trying nandrolone, I am not sure. I know they have it in thai pharms and it's registered.

Yes but I mean longer cycle of <200mg with t-cyp. I don't want to be on TRT really since my testis seem to work fine, so I see that as a short term solution to get hemocrit back up etc. The problem is of course what will happen when I stop, will I feel worse then I did initially?

 

[Aleeri]

What you write may well be rooted in truth. But if treatment was withheld until we fully understood the "reason for every imbalance," many of us would have a miserable quality of life...waiting for the moment that science cracked open the problem and answered the question.

That's true, I think in cases with guys with low T I definitely agree with you. But when patient actually have working testis and production like me I think it is not justified.

 

[Re-Ride]

You initiated treatment because of symptoms which included low T . Your diagnosis is hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism ( secondary hypo-g). This means you have functional testicular tissue but no or low LH signal. Or so I thought.

These numbers from January 12 2016 are not consistent with either untreated hypo-G or hCG monotherapy
Total Testosterone 6.26 (2.8-8) ng/mL,
SHBG 62 (10-60) nmol/L
Albumin 4.8 (3.5-5.2) g/dL
Free Testosterone 85 (90-300) pg/mL
% Free Testosterone 1.35 (2-4.8)
% of Total Bioavailable Testosterone 220 ng/dL
% Bioavailable Testosterone 35
%f Total Estradiol 18.3 (25.8-60.7) pg/mL
FSH 6.1 (1.5-12.4) mIU/mL
LH 7.3 (1.7-8.6) mIU/mL

Please post baseline pre-treatment values alongside those of weeks 4, 6 or 8 of therapy.
Your LH shouldn't be that high baseline or on hcg mono. At least that's my understanding.

Dates, protocols and serum values presented together make your thread reader friendly.

If you were diagnosed with hypo-g your glandular axis is broken. You might look for a pituitary tumor or try Clomid. If you can't get it working again then hormone therapy is justified, is your only option. You will not be doing cycles.

If the doc has exhausted axis restart options and hCG isn't working and he's offering TRT I know what I'd be doing. If I didn't like the first 12 weeks of TRT I would have lost nothing in trying.

 

[Aleeri]

Thanks Re-Ride,

Sorry it's hard to posts these type of things in a format that is easy to read on a forum. I tried to mention previously that working up to those labs January 12 2016, I had been taking an AI, Alphadex from Myokem. I was self medicating here because of my crazy high estrone labs done September 2015 and I was trying to get it down for my January 12 2016 labs.

I am sure the AI affected my LH levels.

You can find my complete lab history nicely presented on link below, note multiple pages/tabs in document. I made it in Numbers on Mac and converted to excel, it seems to have replaced some dates with ########, please note that there should be date here and they fall inbetween the other labs as outlined.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6udiyvc26tq3h4r/alexander_eriksson_labs_2014-2016_excel.xlsx?dl=0

I have added what medicines/supplements I was taking working up to the labs as well as marked in red when out of range.

I have no good baseline labs other then the labs I had when I was supplementing with Tongkat Ali and Pine Pollen, that's when I tested those high values on Estrone, DHT and Androstenedione. Obiously that was a bad idea since it did not solve anything, I did however have good Free Testosterone, Progesterone and DHEA levels back then as you can see in the document. However my cortisol was very high instead and I was already anemic. That was back in September 2015.

So obviously this low free T, progesterone and cortisol is a more recent issue.

My current bioavailable testosterone is: 219 ng/dL - 36% of Total

According to Mayo Clinic ranges: http://www.mayomedicallaboratories.com/test-catalog/Clinical+and+Interpretive/83686

20-29 years: 83-257 ng/dL, that places me in the very top range almost which should be good for my age. How TRT would be a good idea in my case I don't see.

 

[Re-Ride]

Aleeri, let me begin this response by saying I believe you were suffering in a bad way. Out of desperation you went down the wrong path.

You were experiencing symptoms which you self diagnosed as low T. Without doing blood assays to confirm your suspicions you decided to self treat with herbs. While on these herbs you "tested" your saliva with Mr.Wizard's home saliva kit with which you determined that you were in a "high estrogen state". Relying on this you further self-treated with AI and DIM during which time you finally got around to doing some serum testing. While pumped full of this concoction you discovered that you are just over high normal SBHG, healthy tot T, low free T, 35% bioavailable T, low ferritin, low iron AND you really didn't have high E2 after all but were "low E"

Better get me some DHEA oral 25mg, Pregnenolone oral 25mg, Tribulus Terrestris because everyone knows this is the best way to boost iron. To validate this treatment you get another imprecise E2 test but don't check anything else.

Eight months in to this drug-herb abuse adventure you have an epihany which tells you hCG is the answer. To what I haven't a clue. You wanted to see how high you send your estrogen? You thought it would lower SHBG? make your hair grow? treat ED? Let's toss in DHEA oral 12.5mg, Pregnenolone oral 25mg, HGH injections 2 IU before bed and just for fun 0,5mg Arimidex x3 week .

Hey look its working! Oh yeah! Knocked my SHBG down a coupla points and kicked my pituitary in the ass. Almost stopped it from producing those nasty leutinizing and folicle stimulating hormones didn't I!

If your goal is to atrophy your pituitary, hypothalamus and gonads by all means have that doc put you on TRT or perhaps we should call it EHAT endogenous hormone assassination therapy.

Please STOP taking ALL of this stuff and get on a restart. Pray to the Face on Mars or whomever is your chosen deity that your pituitary, hypothalamus and other glands will come back on line and your axis isn't too badly damaged. Instead of downloading articles on AAS find out how to avoid endocrine disruptors in everything you eat, touch, breath and clean with. After a year of recovery, which might approach 80% if you're lucky, try to find out what really caused those symptoms because it wasn't low T or high estrogen.

 

[Aleeri]

Aleeri, let me begin this response by saying I believe you were suffering in a bad way. Out of desperation you went down the wrong path.

You were experiencing symptoms which you self diagnosed as low T. Without doing blood assays to confirm your suspicions you decided to self treat with herbs. While on these herbs you "tested" your saliva with Mr.Wizard's home saliva kit with which you determined that you were in a "high estrogen state". Relying on this you further self-treated with AI and DIM during which time you finally got around to doing some serum testing. While pumped full of this concoction you discovered that you are just over high normal SBHG, healthy tot T, low free T, 35% bioavailable T, low ferritin, low iron AND you really didn't have high E2 after all but were "low E"

Better get me some DHEA oral 25mg, Pregnenolone oral 25mg, Tribulus Terrestris because everyone knows this is the best way to boost iron. To validate this treatment you get another imprecise E2 test but don't check anything else.

Eight months in to this drug-herb abuse adventure you have an epihany which tells you hCG is the answer. To what I haven't a clue. You wanted to see how high you send your estrogen? You thought it would lower SHBG? make your hair grow? treat ED? Let's toss in DHEA oral 12.5mg, Pregnenolone oral 25mg, HGH injections 2 IU before bed and just for fun 0,5mg Arimidex x3 week .

Hey look its working! Oh yeah! Knocked my SHBG down a coupla points and kicked my pituitary in the ass. Almost stopped it from producing those nasty leutinizing and folicle stimulating hormones didn't I!

If your goal is to atrophy your pituitary, hypothalamus and gonads by all means have that doc put you on TRT or perhaps we should call it EHAT endogenous hormone assassination therapy.

Please STOP taking ALL of this stuff and get on a restart. Pray to the Face on Mars or whomever is your chosen deity that your pituitary, hypothalamus and other glands will come back on line and your axis isn't too badly damaged. Instead of downloading articles on AAS find out how to avoid endocrine disruptors in everything you eat, touch, breath and clean with. After a year of recovery, which might approach 80% if you're lucky, try to find out what really caused those symptoms because it wasn't low T or high estrogen.

Re-Ride, I am not sure why you want to spend so much time and writing laying out scenarios just in a way to push down or ridicule my actions in trying to find out and fixing my issues. Is that really the purpose of a forum?

The past is the past, of course I understand that I did things that was probably excessive and not necessary as I have previously stated. But for the record, I was working with doctors all along since my first blood test and saliva test. I never said I ordered home tests or did anything of that sort. My doctor told me my estrogen was high and he put me on DIM, I did not see improvements in 1.5 months so I bought an herbal AI and used that. I had improvement in symptoms from using this AI. I know I was estrogen dominant and so did my doc. He approved of my use of this AI.

Of course I was low E after using this AI, I make mistake and used it for to long, but it brought down my very high E.

And what more can you do then listen to your doctor, and research and learn about the stuff yourself. If you don't find a solution you try things and see what works. Problem solving. It's not an easy thing to start from zero and have to learn how everything works yourself when you can't find doctors that can help you 100%.
I have been having libido issues and ED and that was how all of this started with trying Tongkat etc. Tribulus was another try for that, if you looked at all pages of the spreadsheet you would see that I also supplemented iron.

I rather try Tribulus for libido then pop the blood pressure medication Cialis which is what my doctor gave me. I researched all herbals I have used extensively and there are clinic trials on most of them and many successful users of them which obviously show that they would not mess a lot of people up, I have an underlying problem.

Everything has been recommended and approved by my current doctor when it comes to HCG, DHEA, Preg, HGH and Arimidex. But you seem to like to ignore all of this and say that I somehow put needles in myself daily for fun? Nice one man, real helpful...

HCG is to try to bring T up to get more free T obviously.

Maybe you understand why I am very skeptical to Nandrolone and any other medications more.

I am just here to get opinions on what might be the core issue here, nothing else.

I am leaning towards longterm high stress levels = low cortisol = low progesterone = estrogen imbalances. Also potential hypothyroid since iodine deficient longterm and from my research hypothyroid men have lower free testosterone, lower IGF-1 and often anemia:

Anemias are diagnosed in 20-60% patients with hypothyroidism (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10518398)

Now replies like above would be helpful so I could discuss it with my doctor, bashing me is not.

 

[Re-Ride]

We're here to support you not criticize you. If the root cause of your symptoms is endocrine imbalance, nutrition or chemical exposure I hope you will find the answer on these pages. You deserve relief and to have the best quality of life possible.

The only reasons for a man to take hCG is if he is hypogonadic from low LH or wants to preserve testicular function / stimulate CNS LH receptors while on TRT or in select cases of infertility or pain management (experimental). Somehow you concluded incorrectly that you could boost libido and treat ED with it. Fortunately hCG is not as repressive to the axis as AAS are. You aren't going to feel well for a period after you quit until your anterior pituitary starts pumping out that good LH again. You are young and haven't been on hCG that long so perhaps the axis recovery will be measured in days or weeks not months.

If there is benefit to you from the pregnenolone, DHEA or other things you are taking I'm not qualified to say except that I can say with confidence and I'm sure others here will agree that hCG is definitely not indicated in your case. It was the hCG that depressed your LH and FSH to the 2 range not the AI. Dr. Hansa should be aware of this and explained it to you.

 

[Re-Ride]

Aleeri, we've all had our misadventures at the endo's office. How the heck these guys go about treating patients without bothering to get essential labs is beyond us. Forgive me for deducing things based upon partial data. Can you point to a single mention in any study that supports hCG use to raise free T in a man with healthy tot T levels? It's not done because it perturbs the axis as you can clearly see from your lowered LH FSH values. If Dr. Hansa has a novel theory on using hCG to decrease SHBG in high T men with healthy gonadal function please let him know he is very welcome here to drop in and explain his protocol.

If you had baseline labs in your natural state including E2 by LC/MS/MS, which isn't available to you, you'd have more support here on the AI use. Perhaps there are other men with healthy tot T levels who are not on T or other AAS that are using AI. I've never heard of any with the exception of gynocomasty which you have not reported. You do report symptoms that may or may not be due to high estrogens. You're convinced AI is helping. I don't find the Rx for AI nearly as disturbing as the use of hCG and that's coming from someone who is an advocate of hCG where indicated.

If thyroid and adrenals are issues for you lets have those whose specialty that is lend their expertise.

edit: if one is treating "high estrogens" not low T why oh why would they include in the protocol hCG a substance known for its annoying side effect of triggering high estrogen, particularly high IT (intratesticular estrogen)?? Nuts in nuts!

 

[Aleeri]

We're here to support you not criticize you. If the root cause of your symptoms is endocrine imbalance, nutrition or chemical exposure I hope you will find the answer on these pages. You deserve relief and to have the best quality of life possible.

The only reasons for a man to take hCG is if he is hypogonadic from low LH or wants to preserve testicular function while/ stimulate CNS LH while on TRT or in select cases of infertility or pain management (experimental). Somehow you concluded incorrectly that you could boost libido and treat ED with it. Fortunately hCG is not as repressive to the axis as AAS are. You aren't going to feel well for a period after you quit until your anterior pituitary starts pumping out that good LH again. You are young and haven't been on hCG that long so perhaps the axis recovery will be measured in days or weeks not months.

If there is benefit to you from the pregnenolone, DHEA or other things you are taking I'm not qualified to say except that I can say with confidence and I'm sure others here will agree that hCG is definitely not indicated in your case. It was the hCG that depressed your LH and FSH to the 2 range not the AI. Dr. Hansa should be aware of this and explained it to you.

Dr Hansa suggested we could try HCG as a means of increasing total T and thereby increasing free T. I was stupid enough to listen without doing more research myself, but when it comes to hormones the area is so huge and it took me two months of running HCG treatment until I started to realize that maybe it was not such a good idea.

I was on for 2 months, last few weeks only 250 IU every other day. I have not had a shot in 4-5 days, I feel a bit run down but not a huge difference so far.

You are totally right about HCG not being indicated for me.