HCG: How much is safe to use?

[Jucaro]

That’s an amazing price! It’s like $18 U.S., I pay at least $60 for 6000iu’s of HCG, and that’s not including shipping.

I buy it out of the social security (private prescription), so for me it is 51 €.

 

[Jeromefrance]

Yes Human chorionic gonadotrophin was more expensive too. This one is Choriogonadotropine alfa and is cheaper but works as Well as HCG.

 

[Cataceous]

I'm 50 y/o, I was only concerned about Testicular volume till few months ago when I tried HCG mono at 390 IU EOD and I felt sooo good even when libido was not that good and then my numbers were kind of weird with not much total testosterone and E2 little high. Then I guess I felt so good (physcally and mentally) because of backfilling pathways, so it is not only about testosterone and E2 levels.
Now If I want to add some testosterone to my protocoll I obviuoslly have to decrease the HCG dose otherwise E2 will rise too much (I convert a lot into E2 although I am not overweight).

The question is how much and how often of HCG is needed for adecuate pathways backfilling... Probably it is a matter of trial and error...

Some research has found that hCG doses of 250 IU EOD make intratesticular testosterone close to normal. By extrapolation these might be adequate doses for other purposes, e.g. backfilling.

 

[Jeromefrance]

Some research has found that hCG doses of 250 IU EOD make intratesticular testosterone close to normal. By extrapolation these might be adequate doses for other purposes, e.g. backfilling.

Yes, at these dosages i believe E2 production will be moderate in the testes. Because 250ui only replaces normal ITT. More exactly one study showed -7% of basal ITT with 250 ui EOD. You can go to 275-300 ui no prob.

 

[Jucaro]

Some research has found that hCG doses of 250 IU EOD make intratesticular testosterone close to normal. By extrapolation these might be adequate doses for other purposes, e.g. backfilling.

Yes, at these dosages i believe E2 production will be moderate in the testes. Because 250ui only replaces normal ITT. More exactly one study showed -7% of basal ITT with 250 ui EOD. You can go to 275-300 ui no prob.

That is actually the dose I started to use from 2 weeks ago, 260 iu EOD, combined with a different aproach of TRT that I have designed for myself (since I don't want to use any Ai, but my E2 rises very easely). It is too soon to say any result, but I am trying to set up a basal safe line of treatment that includes the above mentioned dose of HCG plus testosterone undecanoate (Reandron, Nebido in US) 100 mg (0,4ml) every 2 weeks -it goes perfectly in 1 ml insulin syringe with 27 gauge needle- shallow IM, which accounts for 50 mg weekly.
From that basal line, once the steady state is reached, I play the game with a faster testosterone ester let's say propionate or cypionate 50 mg weekly in splited doses. That way I would be having 100 mg testosterone weekly plus endogenous testosterone from HCG.
If things go wrong, like having high E2 symptoms, I ease or stop the faster testosterone ester and stay only on my basal safe line for a while... then again.
I think I couldn't say how it works until being 3 to 5 months on it. I have to wait.

 

[Jeromefrance]

That is actually the dose I started to use from 2 weeks ago, 260 iu EOD, combined with a different aproach of TRT that I have designed for myself (since I don't want to use any Ai, but my E2 rises very easely). It is too soon to say any result, but I am trying to set up a basal safe line of treatment that includes the above mentioned dose of HCG plus testosterone undecanoate (Reandron, Nebido in US) 100 mg (0,4ml) every 2 weeks -it goes perfectly in 1 ml insulin syringe with 27 gauge needle- shallow IM, which accounts for 50 mg weekly.
From that basal line, once the steady state is reached, I play the game with a faster testosterone ester let's say propionate or cypionate 50 mg weekly in splited doses. That way I would be having 100 mg testosterone weekly plus endogenous testosterone from HCG.
If things go wrong, like having high E2 symptoms, I ease or stop the faster testosterone ester and stay only on my basal safe line for a while... then again.
I think I couldn't say how it works until being 3 to 5 months on it. I have to wait.

If it works for you go for it. I do think that it is better to go with only one ester. You will add ups and downs with propionate. You should try an intermediate dose of undecanoate per week something like 87.5mg and see where it goes?

 

[Jucaro]

If it works for you go for it. I do think that it is better to go with only one ester. You will add ups and downs with propionate. You should try an intermediate dose of undecanoate per week something like 87.5mg and see where it goes?

The idea is to resemble as much as possible the natural daily ups and downs, which is a normal circadian rhythm, and to take advantage on the fast metabolism of shorter ester, which would allow to clear it from your system very fast when the levels of estrogens are too high, while always keeping basal levels within range.

 

[Jeromefrance]

The idea is to resemble as much as possible the natural daily ups and downs, which is a normal circadian rhythm, and to take advantage of fast metabolism of shorter ester, which would allow to clear it from your system very fast when the levels of estrogens are too high, while always keeping basal levels within range.

I understand what you want to do. Maybe other members could give you advice. I think you know yourself to try and see. In my opinion it will be hard to dial in with those two esters. Once the ester is broken down by the body testosterone is testosterone. Maybe you just could go by propionate only and so it will be esay to adjust dosage. I know it is not easy to manage estrogen. Less frequent injections with prop may be good for you.

 

[Jucaro]

I understand what you want to do. Maybe other members could give you advice. I think you know yourself to try and see. In my opinion it will be hard to dial in with those two esters. Once the ester is broken down by the body testosterone is testosterone. Maybe you just could go by propionate only and so it will be esay to adjust dosage. I know it is not easy to manage estrogen. Less frequent injections with prop may be good for you.

I have seen myself having high estrogen after a month or two at 87.5 mg testosterone per week. Having a flat level of testosterone is not physiological.

Testosterone is testosterone, but the point here is to play with the half life of each ester, so you don't need to crash o have very deep fluctuations while adjusting doses, also I see it as a mean to manage E2 by easely manipulating the fast ester dose based on how you feel, cause you can't be doing labs and persecuting numbers all the time.

 

[Jeromefrance]

I have seen myself having high estrogen after a month or two at 87.5 mg testosterone per week. Having a flat level of testosterone is not physiological.

Testosterone is testosterone, but the point here is to play with the half life of each ester, so you don't need to crash o have very deep fluctuations while adjusting doses, also I see it as a mean to manage E2 by easely manipulating the fast ester dose based on how you feel, cause you can't be doing labs and persecuting numbers all the time.

I completely understand and what you are saying makes sense. You will be injecting it daily ?

 

[Jucaro]

I completely understand and what you are saying makes sense. You will be injecting it daily ?

Now I am on Ovitrelle 260 mg every other day. I Just started with Reandron 0.4 ml every two weeks, it will take at least 3 months to reach some steady levels, in the mean time I am on low dose T. Cypionate EOD, when Undecanoate gets stable, I may switch from cypionate to propionate, then I can go with higher doses of propionate or ease it down going to basal (safe) levels provided by undecanoate - HCG in a matter of 1 or 2days....
Also could keep using cypionate instead of propionate, being always easy to cut it down or off when not feeling well, going back to "Home" levels, not worrying about numbers every so often...

 

[DragonBits]

Now I am on Ovitrelle 260 mg every other day. I Just started with Reandron 0.4 ml every two weeks, it will take at least 3 months to reach some steady levels, in the mean time I am on low dose T. Cypionate EOD, when Undecanoate gets stable, I may switch from cypionate to propionate, then I can go with higher doses of propionate or ease it down going to basal (safe) levels provided by undecanoate - HCG in a matter of 1 or 2days....
Also could keep using cypionate instead of propionate, being always easy to cut it down or off when not feeling well, going back to "Home" levels, not worrying about numbers every so often...

good luck, sounds complicated.

 

[Gman86]

If I were you, I would just switch to propionate. Inject it EOD, along with your 260iu of HCG. Just keep things simple and inject both EOD, on the same day. I don’t really see a need to keep a long esther in the mix. To me, propionate sounds extremely ideal. Administering propionate EOD, should allow you to avoid an ai. Even if you do experience what you think is too high of E2, you can go get your E2 checked every couple weeks. So if you check your E2 through labs, and it’s high and you are symptomatic, you can lower your dose, and go get labs done again in 14-21 days, opposed to being on cypionate, which you would have to wait at least 6 weeks after a dose change to get your E2 checked. So even if you had to get labs done and adjust dosages around 3-4 times before getting dialed in, it would only take you a matter of 2-3 months max to do so, which is amazing. On cypionate, you’re looking at closer to 6 months, minimum.

I’m personally going to switch to propionate in about a month, due to this exact reason. I can get dialed in extremely quickly on propionate. I already inject EOD, and I wouldn’t mind injecting daily if I had to. The other reasons are due to possibly lowering E2 a bit more than while on cypionate, and also the fact that some report benefits to using propionate, that they didn’t see with cypionate.
Testosterone propionate for TRT

 

[Tommy Wall]

I don´t mix the Orvirelle with BW is already mixed- just draw from the pen it has a rubber cover so its easy. Only 3 bar on a 0.5ml syringe will give around 500iu.
There is thread somewhere on EM where you can find the calculation.