For those who are struggling on TRT

[Deleted member 43589]

Sure.

Most likely unless you have a physique like this guy or @BigTex ...


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The PK data we typically use for SQ is from Xyosted studies which is clouded by the BA as @madman and @Cataceous have pointed out. One man's SQ is another man's IM unless you are pinching the injection site. And some don't have as much to pinch.

Hahaha.....I wish!

 

[Fortunate]

This was an awesome thread. I think it's time to wake it back up!

Has anyone here been inspired by @sh1973 to reduce their dosage and/or frequency of injections? If so, please post results.

When this thread was active, I was inspired to follow suit. I did 50mg of Xyosted, but by day four, I was really fatigued. The wise version of me would have toughed it out until day seven. But, the dumbass version of me took over and injected at day 4.5.

I am thinking of giving this another go, but maybe using hCG to bridge between Xyosted injections (maybe days 3 or 4 to day 6).

 

[Charliebizz]

This was an awesome thread. I think it's time to wake it back up!

Has anyone here been inspired by @sh1973 to reduce their dosage and/or frequency of injections? If so, please post results.

When this thread was active, I was inspired to follow suit. I did 50mg of Xyosted, but by day four, I was really fatigued. The wise version of me would have toughed it out until day seven. But, the dumbass version of me took over and injected at day 4.5.

I am thinking of giving this another go, but maybe using hCG to bridge between Xyosted injections (maybe days 3 or 4 to day 6).

The dose is irrelevant. In Sh situation he is somewhat of a hyper responder. Especially for a guy with high shbg. Most people aren’t going to hit his numbers off a dose that little. And I recently spoke to him. He upped it back into the 60mg per week again.

 

[sh1973]

This was an awesome thread. I think it's time to wake it back up!

Has anyone here been inspired by @sh1973 to reduce their dosage and/or frequency of injections? If so, please post results.

When this thread was active, I was inspired to follow suit. I did 50mg of Xyosted, but by day four, I was really fatigued. The wise version of me would have toughed it out until day seven. But, the dumbass version of me took over and injected at day 4.5.

I am thinking of giving this another go, but maybe using hCG to bridge between Xyosted injections (maybe days 3 or 4 to day 6).

For what it’s worth I did fantastic on Xyosted injections but it wrecked my lipids for some reason. Anyhow I had to do 75 mg of that to feel the same as I do now. I did up the dose back to 60 mg and it had nothing to do with the way I felt but erections started suffering some. I think if you move to the 75 mg dose you will be just fine.

 

[JRos895]

For what it’s worth I did fantastic on Xyosted injections but it wrecked my lipids for some reason. Anyhow I had to do 75 mg of that to feel the same as I do now. I did up the dose back to 60 mg and it had nothing to do with the way I felt but erections started suffering some. I think if you move to the 75 mg dose you will be just fine.

Is there any reason why Xyosted would provide better subjective results than regular Test E or C of the same dose?
Can the lack of the preservative make that big of a difference?

I’m highly considering switching from 80mg of Test C per week to 75mg Xyosted.

 

[Fortunate]

For what it’s worth I did fantastic on Xyosted injections but it wrecked my lipids for some reason. Anyhow I had to do 75 mg of that to feel the same as I do now. I did up the dose back to 60 mg and it had nothing to do with the way I felt but erections started suffering some. I think if you move to the 75 mg dose you will be just fine.

Interesting. In the past, I have done both 75mg and even 100mg. You may be right. I will see how this goes for a while.

 

[Fortunate]

Is there any reason why Xyosted would provide better subjective results than regular Test E or C of the same dose?
Can the lack of the preservative make that big of a difference?

I’m highly considering switching from 80mg of Test C per week to 75mg Xyosted.

I can't answer this with any scientific backing, but I subjectively feel better on Xyosted. And, by feeling better, I don't get side effects that are as nasty as injections from a multi-use vial.

The only two theories that make sense to me are either the simplicity of Xyosted (no preservatives/no alcohol); or, the injection pressure. The second theory seems far-fetched, but possible. Because you use an auto injector pen, it seems like it shoves the oil deeper into subcutaneous tissue than a little an insulin needle would. With insulin needles, it seems like I deposit the medicine just below the dermis.

I have no idea if either of these two theories make sense. Maybe it's placebo, but I don't think so.

 

[Mastodont]

I can't answer this with any scientific backing, but I subjectively feel better on Xyosted. And, by feeling better, I don't get side effects that are as nasty as injections from a multi-use vial.

The only two theories that make sense to me are either the simplicity of Xyosted (no preservatives/no alcohol); or, the injection pressure. The second theory seems far-fetched, but possible. Because you use an auto injector pen, it seems like it shoves the oil deeper into subcutaneous tissue than a little an insulin needle would. With insulin needles, it seems like I deposit the medicine just below the dermis.

I have no idea if either of these two theories make sense. Maybe it's placebo, but I don't think so.

So is the xyosted needle how long? Pretty sure you can get the oil very deep in subq tissue with even a 8mm insulin syringe. It might well be the preservatives, or a different oil.

 

[Mastodont]

My trial with 50mg once a week did not work, went to 7.5mg daily, after 2 weeks started getting sides, probably levels got too high, was thinking it was too low estradiol and upped to 25mg eod, felt even worse, i guess i could have tolerated 5mg daily even after accumulation, seems i just cant tolerate levels other than just a little over my shitty natural levels.

 

[Fortunate]

So is the xyosted needle how long? Pretty sure you can get the oil very deep in subq tissue with even a 8mm insulin syringe. It might well be the preservatives, or a different oil.

It’s not the depth of the needle, but the pressure of the injector I had in mind. Again, far fetched.

 

[Fortunate]

My trial with 50mg once a week did not work, went to 7.5mg daily, after 2 weeks started getting sides, probably levels got too high, was thinking it was too low estradiol and upped to 25mg eod, felt even worse, i guess i could have tolerated 5mg daily even after accumulation, seems i just cant tolerate levels other than just a little over my shitty natural levels.

I wonder the same.

 

[Misery]

I have been having a similar experience.

I have been lowering my dose from 200mg down to 98mg now over a years time. The big tell in my case is that I no longer need any AI. I didn't think I'd ever be able to say that. The biggest impact of lowering my dose is much better mental health.

Everything is better but Libido. I'm going to drop down to 70mg and see how things go.

I had my numbers a little off with the above post, I was actually dosing 112mg weekly. Anyway I'm in my 8th week of a reduction from the 112 to 84mg.

Just last knight I was trying to talk myself into increasing dose back to 112, but decided to tough it out for one more week and wouldn't you know it this morning I woke stiff as a 4x4. Anxiety has improved over the last week as has feeling hot in a 74 degree room.

I'm doing bloods next week to see where T/FT/E2 are. I'll post them up when I get them.

 

[Charliebizz]

Is there any reason why Xyosted would provide better subjective results than regular Test E or C of the same dose?
Can the lack of the preservative make that big of a difference?

I’m highly considering switching from 80mg of Test C per week to 75mg Xyosted.

I can't answer this with any scientific backing, but I subjectively feel better on Xyosted. And, by feeling better, I don't get side effects that are as nasty as injections from a multi-use vial.

The only two theories that make sense to me are either the simplicity of Xyosted (no preservatives/no alcohol); or, the injection pressure. The second theory seems far-fetched, but possible. Because you use an auto injector pen, it seems like it shoves the oil deeper into subcutaneous tissue than a little an insulin needle would. With insulin needles, it seems like I deposit the medicine just below the dermis.

I have no idea if either of these two theories make sense. Maybe it's placebo, but I don't think so.

Doesn’t xyosted have a longer half life then regular enanthate? because the lack of preservative?

 

[Mastodont]

It’s not the depth of the needle, but the pressure of the injector I had in mind. Again, far fetched.

Well you could always simulate that pressure with the insulin pin?

 

[Fortunate]

Well you could always simulate that pressure with the insulin pin?

In theory, yes. But it’s not that easy. There is a very small volume in a very small syringe, so it’s just hard to replicate the pressure. Mind you, this is not a phenomena that I obsess over. It is just an observation I made in trying to explain why I tolerate Xyosted better than other injections.

I have some other potential theories, including the fact that when I typically inject from a vial, I am using small amounts. It is possible that the side effects that I get (headache, anxiety and jittery) are more related to the fact that I am sub therapeutic later in the day rather than the actual substance being injected. It is a theory I can test by injecting a comparable amount of enanthate (50mg) from a multi use vial and try to compare it to Xyosted. It makes me nervous, but I might do it at some point.

 

[Charliebizz]

In theory, yes. But it’s not that easy. There is a very small volume in a very small syringe, so it’s just hard to replicate the pressure. Mind you, this is not a phenomena that I obsess over. It is just an observation I made in trying to explain why I tolerate Xyosted better than other injections.

I have some other potential theories, including the fact that when I typically inject from a vial, I am using small amounts. It is possible that the side effects that I get (headache, anxiety and jittery) are more related to the fact that I am sub therapeutic later in the day rather than the actual substance being injected. It is a theory I can test by injecting a comparable amount of enanthate (50mg) from a multi use vial and try to compare it to Xyosted. It makes me nervous, but I might do it at some point.

Have you gotten labs to see if you were sub therapeutic ?

 

[Fortunate]

Have you gotten labs to see if you were sub therapeutic ?

Not really under the circumstances in which I feel bad.

 

[Willyt]

My trial with 50mg once a week did not work, went to 7.5mg daily, after 2 weeks started getting sides, probably levels got too high, was thinking it was too low estradiol and upped to 25mg eod, felt even worse, i guess i could have tolerated 5mg daily even after accumulation, seems i just cant tolerate levels other than just a little over my shitty natural levels.

You are not alone. I have experimented with various daily doses of Enanthate and found that 8mg is most I can tolerate. I feel good during day on higher doses, but it destroys my sleep. Even at 8mg I sometimes had to intentionally skip a day to let things settle down.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

@Cataceous

Do you think there is reason to believe that Xyosted has a higher absorption rate than regular TE due to its lack of preservatives and alcohol? The studies shows that 100mg leads to an average level of 900 TT, which seems higher than what people generally report for 100mg regular TE. People generally report the trough though. I can’t grasp my head around why seem people claim they need 150mg sometimes to reach a level like 700TT.

Also, the half life of TC is 8 days I believe, so I would think that two weekly shots of TC is still better than one weekly shot of Xyosted.

I use West-Ward Test E; 100 mg, IM, E5D. TT: 889 Free: 240.

 

[Misery]

I had my numbers a little off with the above post, I was actually dosing 112mg weekly. Anyway I'm in my 8th week of a reduction from the 112 to 84mg.

Just last knight I was trying to talk myself into increasing dose back to 112, but decided to tough it out for one more week and wouldn't you know it this morning I woke stiff as a 4x4. Anxiety has improved over the last week as has feeling hot in a 74 degree room.

I'm doing bloods next week to see where T/FT/E2 are. I'll post them up when I get them.

Wow not what I was expecting @ 84mg a week. Think I'm going to confirm these results with another test next week.

TESTOSTERONE, FREE (DIALYSIS) AND TOTAL (MS)
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL, MS 627 250-1100 ng/dL

TESTOSTERONE, FREE SLI
(DIALYSIS)
TESTOSTERONE, FREE 163.2 H 35.0-155.0 pg/mL

ESTRADIOL,ULTRASENSITIVE, LC/MS 43 H < OR = 29 pg/mL

This doesn't add up with my last labs @ 112mg a week. Which where,

TESTOSTERONE, FREE (DIALYSIS) AND TOTAL (MS)
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL, MS 479 250-1100 ng/dL

TESTOSTERONE, FREE SLI
(DIALYSIS)
TESTOSTERONE, FREE 123.0 35.0-155.0 pg/mL

Anybody have an idea of why I'm higher on a lower dose?