just signed up with Defy (been on TRT for about 5 years now)- looking forward to trying nandrolone as a base or split with testosterone. What are some of the protocols that work well with nandrolone - 50/50 split nandrolone/test, 75/25? 100% nandrolone? Would I still need to take anastrozole? I am assuming I will also still be on HCG to keep the nads happy
folks on nandrolone what are some typical protocols for TRT
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A lot of guys I know doing a nandrolone base use around 200mg-300mg per week of nandrolone, and the lowest dose of test to feel good. For TRT purposss I would use closer to 200mg of nandrolone per week. U might be able to use less nandrolone tho. What I did was keep the 200mg of nandrolone consistent, and I started off with around 40mg of test with it. Then tried 60mg test, 80mg test, and 100mc test. I think I felt my best when I was using 200mg nandrolone and 60mg test. U won’t need an ai with this protocol. And I would use the minimum effective dose of HCG that u can. But the main thing is to pick a dose of HCG and keep it consistent throughout the trial and error of figuring out which test dose u do best at. Just keep the nandrolone and HCG doses consistent, and just start very low with ur test dose and titrate up until u find what test dose works for u. That’s the best way I can think of to trial a nandrolone base.
great suggestion to titrate test up with base of 200 mg nandrolone and low dose HCG. I'll give it a try. thanks!
Vince
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My son-in-law was using 200 mg of testosterone, 175 of nandrolone and no HCG. He did get excellent results. Then he decided to get this fiance pregnant so he stopped. His normal levels came back quickly and he did get his fiance pregnant and actually now they're having their second child.
When u say excellent results, do u mean physically, or he also felt great on that protocol? Do u know if he used an ai with it?
Vince
Super Moderator
Both physical and felt great. He was overweight and needed to get back into shape. Just working too many long hours at his business. 44 years old now, ex college football player.
He was able to lose all his excess weight and looks great now. Even though he's no longer using T or N.
I caution any and all men using Nandrolone to get cardiac imaging done.
Nandrolone is well known to induce left ventricular hypertrophy. It is a very potent anabolic substance. Also, please keep in mind that the metabolites of nandrolone will linger in your body for up to 18 months. That means it can keep your HPTA suppressed for that long. As well, Nandrolone has progestogenic properties and in some men it can actually make libido substantially worse. This is why bodybuilders have coined the term "Deca Dick" to describe the complete loss of erectile function in some men who use nandrolone. Reasons why this occurs aren't well known. Some circumvent the issue by using 2x as much testosterone as nandrolone. I would advise starting low. Something like 25-50 mg nandrolone and 100 mg of testosterone.
Nandrolone is well known to induce left ventricular hypertrophy. It is a very potent anabolic substance. Also, please keep in mind that the metabolites of nandrolone will linger in your body for up to 18 months. That means it can keep your HPTA suppressed for that long. As well, Nandrolone has progestogenic properties and in some men it can actually make libido substantially worse. This is why bodybuilders have coined the term "Deca Dick" to describe the complete loss of erectile function in some men who use nandrolone. Reasons why this occurs aren't well known. Some circumvent the issue by using 2x as much testosterone as nandrolone. I would advise starting low. Something like 25-50 mg nandrolone and 100 mg of testosterone.
isnt it just active metabolites that suppress HPTA. I do not think long half-life nandrolone metabolites are still active, or they will compound over time to produce way too much active metabolite in the body, effectively turning your TRT into a super duper steroid cycle.
And I would like to see the studies on left ventricular hypertrophy. I am assuming they were looking at folks taking a relatively high dose of nandrolone.
Yes I am aware of potential progesterone side effects, so I will monitor to make sure they are okay.
Thanks for your input
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In rats, administration of nandrolone resulted in reduced dopaminergic and serotonergic transmission in the brain in response to the administration of cocaine for a period lasting from 5-6 times the duration of administration.
If you look at anecdotal reports on the Steroids subreddit, we see many men complaining of Erectile Dysfunction, Depression, Lactation (From elevated prolactin) for months to years after a cycle of nandrolone.
Nandrolone also directly agonizes the progesterone receptor which works synergistically with estradiol. This can potentiate gynecomastia, lethargy etc.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
This study above found that nandrolone increased left ventricular hypertrophy with and without exercise. Granted, the rats were given 5 mg/kg twice per week but you'd have to convert the dosage to human equivalent terms, you'd need to divide by 6.2 (https://www.fda.gov/media/72309/download). That comes out to 0.806 mg/kg twice per week. For a 100 kg male, that would be 80.6 mg twice per week or 160 mg total. That is a dose that some men use as an adjunct to TRT.
If you use a low dose, you'll likely be fine. However, I personally don't see the rewards as being worth the risk. If you stay under 100 mg per week you will likely minimize side effects.
All this being said, there are no direct human trials on the safety of nandrolone. However, we have seen plenty of problems arise for AAS users.
Do what you want with this information, but I would personally advise you to steer clear of 19-Nors.
If you look at anecdotal reports on the Steroids subreddit, we see many men complaining of Erectile Dysfunction, Depression, Lactation (From elevated prolactin) for months to years after a cycle of nandrolone.
Nandrolone also directly agonizes the progesterone receptor which works synergistically with estradiol. This can potentiate gynecomastia, lethargy etc.
Heart Reaction to Nandrolone Decanoate plus Two Different Intensities of Endurance Exercise: Electrocardiography and Stereological Approach - PMC
Regarding the negative effects of androgenic anabolic steroids (AASs) abuse, the long-term effect of nandrolone decanoate with/without two intensities of endurance exercise training was investigated on heart tissue and electrocardiogram (ECG) in ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
This study above found that nandrolone increased left ventricular hypertrophy with and without exercise. Granted, the rats were given 5 mg/kg twice per week but you'd have to convert the dosage to human equivalent terms, you'd need to divide by 6.2 (https://www.fda.gov/media/72309/download). That comes out to 0.806 mg/kg twice per week. For a 100 kg male, that would be 80.6 mg twice per week or 160 mg total. That is a dose that some men use as an adjunct to TRT.
If you use a low dose, you'll likely be fine. However, I personally don't see the rewards as being worth the risk. If you stay under 100 mg per week you will likely minimize side effects.
All this being said, there are no direct human trials on the safety of nandrolone. However, we have seen plenty of problems arise for AAS users.
Do what you want with this information, but I would personally advise you to steer clear of 19-Nors.
5 mg/kg 2x a week translates to me (200 pounds) to about 900 mg per week. way beyond what I plan on taking. And these are rats. studies in rodents a lot of the time do not translate to humans
but yeah human equivelant dose would be a lot lower based on the link you sent (seems outdated). Anyway thanks for your advice. I will be cautious
but yeah human equivelant dose would be a lot lower based on the link you sent (seems outdated). Anyway thanks for your advice. I will be cautious
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Then u got Robbie Robinson who’s 76 and looks like this currently, and is still very active, and was notoriously known for mostly using deca only cycles for 20+ years while he was a bodybuilder.
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I have plenty of anecdotes saved of guys talking about how their libido went through the roof, they feel great, and erections are still good, when adding in low dose nandrolone to their protocol. Obv plenty of others experience the opposite, but just goes to show how everyone is different, and u really have to do what’s best for u personally
One thing idk if I’ve ever heard a guy say is that their mood improved when adding in nandrolone tho. Plenty of guys report no effect one way or the other tho. Well I guess I have heard guys say their mood improved due to not experiencing chronic pain anymore. But I think most guys will probably experience either a neutral, or negative effect on their mood with nandrolone
But on the other hand! Lol. I’ve heard of quite a few guys at this point feeling better mentally when switching from a test base to a nandrolone base. So it’s really all so damn complicated lol. And like I said, it really all comes down to trial and error within urself, and seeing what works for u personally
One thing idk if I’ve ever heard a guy say is that their mood improved when adding in nandrolone tho. Plenty of guys report no effect one way or the other tho. Well I guess I have heard guys say their mood improved due to not experiencing chronic pain anymore. But I think most guys will probably experience either a neutral, or negative effect on their mood with nandrolone
But on the other hand! Lol. I’ve heard of quite a few guys at this point feeling better mentally when switching from a test base to a nandrolone base. So it’s really all so damn complicated lol. And like I said, it really all comes down to trial and error within urself, and seeing what works for u personally
I agree that trial and error is probably the best course of action. Start low and see how it affects. It blows my mind though that clinics offer Deca rather than NPP. NPP has a considerably shorter half life so if shit goes south you can bail rather quickly. With deca you're gonna be sitting there for a couple of weeks for the shit to clear from your system.
I know NPP would be so much more ideal! But I don’t think any compounding pharmacies make NPP, do they? If NPP ever becomes available through defy I would switch in second
I second this question: is there a legitimate way to get NPP? I have had fairly bad luck with nandrolone in the past. But, I am dealing with a lot of aches and pains at the moment and would consider a trial to deal with it. If given the choice, I'd much rather use an ester with a shorter half life.
What bad luck have u had in the past with nandrolone? And have u only used deca?
And as far as I know no compounding pharmacy in the U.S. makes NPP, and nandrolone is only available in the U.S. via compounding pharmacies, so I don’t think it’s possible to get pharmaceutical grade NPP via a prescription in the U.S. at this time unfortunately. Hoping that changes at some point though. Quality NPP is luckily pretty easy to get UGL, and there’s sources where u can get pharmaceutical grade NPP from labs that are in other countries. Balkan Pharmaceuticals is a well known lab that comes to mind, and they make NPP. U can PM me if ur interested in trying NPP over deca, I can guide u in the right direction if u want
Issues have been dull headaches, oily skin and (I think) a hit on mood.
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