Fertility Recovery - Wife Unimpressed With Sterility

[D007Domo]

Been on TRT for about 2.5 years. 34 year old male. I have 2 kids and want to keep the party going with a 3rd, possibly even 4th. Hopefully some information that comes out of this can help someone else. Of course, I am hoping it will help me too. I've spent about 4 weeks reading info here and I was thankful for every log-style thread I could find.

As of now, my near-term plan is to come off TRT > a couple of weeks of HCG > 6 weeks of clomid (no hcg) > labs. MY goal is to get myself restarted then come back to TRT along with HCG on a longterm basis, with the goal of simply maintaining whatever fertility/production of various things I am able to recover (hopefully) over the next couple of months. Does anyone have any experience to share re clomid restart back into T+HCG therapy?

Since this January, my TRT protocol has been 160-170 Enanthate split over 3x/week, IM (usually shoulders). My most recent labs (mid-August) were as follows:

LH: <.02 Range 1.7-8.6
FSH: 0.3 Range 1.5-12.4

TT: 1005 Range 264-916
FT: 26.2 Range 8.7-25.1

E Sensitive: 59.2 Range 8-35

Semen Analysis: Everything below detectable range.

To clarify, I am aware of the FSH/HMG route. At this point, my inclination is to have as much of my own system as possible operational for the longterm. I do realize it may come to FSH/HMG for us to conceive and I have not had an easy time sourcing an off-script source - if anyone has any input on this, please let me know.

Log will start shortly.

 

[Vince Carter]

Clomid dosing is particularly troublesome in the usually suggested amounts, Estrogen and SHBG tend to elevate @ 25mg/D (or more). We tend to recommend 12.5mg EOD judging tolerance for it. Too much Clomid plus HCG are usual recipes for Estrogenic problems in the average guy.

 

[D007Domo]

Clomid dosing is particularly troublesome in the usually suggested amounts, Estrogen and SHBG tend to elevate @ 25mg/D (or more). We tend to recommend 12.5mg EOD judging tolerance for it. Too much Clomid plus HCG are usual recipes for Estrogenic problems in the average guy.

Thanks, Vince. I was planning on 12.5 eod once I hit the clomid phase.

 

[D007Domo]

I've now been on HCG for one week @ 500iu/daily and off TRT for 19 days. I'm still planning on doing another week at the same dosage then switching over to clomid. I have lost about 9 pounds since the 8th (last injection). I have also done some fasting since then, so loss is not 100% due to discontinuing TRT.

Testicles are more full, though not back to original volume (I would not expect original volume on one week of anything). They are also softer, more spongey and hanging more loosely. It has been in the 90's here all week, so I am not attributing the 'hang' 100% to hcg.

Besides the boys, I was feeling pretty good overall this week, no negative elements this early on. Was in the gym 4 days. I am very curious re my leydig production, so I will have a simple Free/Total Test done at the end of the upcoming week.

- Dom

 

[D007Domo]

I think if you’d had hcg in the TRT protocol all along you’d more than likely be fertile. You are taking the more extreme route imo, but it will likely work as well.

It only takes one...

user_joe, that is my understanding of running TRT with HCG from the beginning in tandem - I probably would be fertile. I also agree, this is a little more extreme, but I became so curious as to what I would feel like off of TRT. Also, to tie both of your observations together, the main point in all this (beside having kids) is to get a second chance to start TRT with HCG together to maintain whatever fertility I recover over the coming weeks.

Thanks, and I hope you are right in assuming it will work.

 

[gaz7718]

I have been on trt for one year and hcg 500iu every 3 days and it looks from my lack of a pregnant wife over 9 months of trying and a recent fertility test that the hcg did not preserve my fertility.

 

[D007Domo]

I have been on trt for one year and hcg 500iu every 3 days and it looks from my lack of a pregnant wife over 9 months of trying and a recent fertility test that the hcg did not preserve my fertility.

Are you saying you had a semen analysis after 1 year of concurrent trt + hcg use? And the results are that you are sterile?

 

[gaz7718]

Indeed it seems that way. I want to do a further test but the indicators seem to suggest just that. I’m a little disappointed I didn’t check my fertility much earlier as I know I was fertile just prior to trt because my wife got pregnant but sadly miscarried.

 

[D007Domo]

Update:

My last injection of HCG was on 11/5. I had planned originally to do 2 weeks, but some of the effects seemed nice so I went until I finished the entire bottle. In the back of my mind I was dreading making the switch to clomid as well. I was doing 500 iu daily, with a couple of days missed (2 days).

I was finally able to get in to the lab to get a simple Total/Free T test on Fri 11/8 (2 days ago). I just got my results, really quick this time:

Total: 254 (264-916)
Free: 6.4 (8.7-25.1)

I should have gotten tested Wednesday, but I wonder if I was on the lower side the whole time I was on hcg. Any thoughts?

Starting clomid tonight, 12.5 eod.

 

[D007Domo]

Took an at home 'YO' sperm test kit on 12/10. The results came back '>6mil motile sperm per ml'. There did not seem to be a ton of sperm in there, though I apparently crossed some threshhold. I am now hoping to increase count over the coming weeks. I was only on day 64 at time of sperm analysis, but they say it takes 74 to produce mature sperm??

Regardless, I am happy with this result and we have started to gain some confidence.

 

[djjaxs007]

Update:

My last injection of HCG was on 11/5. I had planned originally to do 2 weeks, but some of the effects seemed nice so I went until I finished the entire bottle. In the back of my mind I was dreading making the switch to clomid as well. I was doing 500 iu daily, with a couple of days missed (2 days).

I was finally able to get in to the lab to get a simple Total/Free T test on Fri 11/8 (2 days ago). I just got my results, really quick this time:

Total: 254 (264-916)
Free: 6.4 (8.7-25.1)

I should have gotten tested Wednesday, but I wonder if I was on the lower side the whole time I was on hcg. Any thoughts?

Starting clomid tonight, 12.5 eod.

How have you been feeling on the clomid? Any side effects? Libido? My doc wants me to come off testosterone and start a similar protocol but I’m hesitant to make the move back to clomid. Thanks

 

[djjaxs007]

Indeed it seems that way. I want to do a further test but the indicators seem to suggest just that. I’m a little disappointed I didn’t check my fertility much earlier as I know I was fertile just prior to trt because my wife got pregnant but sadly miscarried.

Didn’t preserve fertility for me. I started testosterone injections (90mg E3.5D) and HCG (500IU 3 x week) 4 months ago. I had a SA and full labs run both immediately prior to starting and again 4 months into treatment. Sperm Concentration dropped from just over 100M down to 3M. Sadly, wife miscarried also 2 months ago. Debating on lowering test dosage and adding FSH or HMG vs. stopping and doing hcg 2 weeks followed by clomid. I was on clomid 12.5 EOD prior to starting testosterone and was miserable. Best of luck.

 

[D007Domo]

How have you been feeling on the clomid? Any side effects? Libido? My doc wants me to come off testosterone and start a similar protocol but I’m hesitant to make the move back to clomid. Thanks

Still on the clomid @ 12.5mg EOD and still feeling decent. I have probably missed a day here and there (so probably a couple of two day gaps in there).

The main difference I have noticed is that my workouts do not have the same intensity and gym progress seems to be taking longer. Pump not as intense, etc. One other thing I have noticed is that I get those early morning erections way more frequently than when I was on TRT, I am talking about the ones before you are fully awake, the ones that feel like an iron rod. I am still in my 5th week of clomid, so not quite ready to conclude too much (specially fertility). Libido seems middle of the road, which is a good thing.

Nelson sent out those 15% discount codes recently, I suppose it is time to get my TT and FreeT tested. I will post results.

 

[D007Domo]

Didn’t preserve fertility for me. I started testosterone injections (90mg E3.5D) and HCG (500IU 3 x week) 4 months ago. I had a SA and full labs run both immediately prior to starting and again 4 months into treatment. Sperm Concentration dropped from just over 100M down to 3M. Sadly, wife miscarried also 2 months ago. Debating on lowering test dosage and adding FSH or HMG vs. stopping and doing hcg 2 weeks followed by clomid. I was on clomid 12.5 EOD prior to starting testosterone and was miserable. Best of luck.

Hey man, sorry to hear about the miscarriage. That can be a rough time for sure.

As far as I recall, if you want to go the FSH/HMG route, FSH in concert with HCG is the way to go. The half-life of actual LH present in HMG is too short (below an hour) while the LH analog in HCG is over a day. Also, if you are going down that road, I do not think it necessary to lower your T dosage.

Again, this is what I remember reading and I am not an expert. I have had to look into it, however, in case my current protocol does not achieve desired results (new babies).

Merry Christmas to all.

 

[D007Domo]

Quick update:

I have done at home semen analysis this whole time, with some details not given in result. They just tell you whether or not you are above a certain threshold of motile sperm and you can review a little video of your swimmers. I got a little lazy with the clomid at one point and the results where definitely (not) there in the test - there were not nearly as many as other tests. Got back on track with clomid and next test, 3 weeks later, showed an obvious increase.

Anyway, my wife showed me a positive pregnancy test last night. So, for now, this case is closed.

TLDR of entire log -

- currently 35 years old
- trt injections for 2.5 years
- came off trt cold turkey
- immediately followed by 2 weeks of 500iu HCG ED
- immediately followed with ~12.5mg of clomid EOD (ongoing)
- We tried to conceive 3 times; march, april, may

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

Quick update:

I have done at home semen analysis this whole time, with some details not given in result. They just tell you whether or not you are above a certain threshold of motile sperm and you can review a little video of your swimmers. I got a little lazy with the clomid at one point and the results where definitely (not) there in the test - there were not nearly as many as other tests. Got back on track with clomid and next test, 3 weeks later, showed an obvious increase.

Anyway, my wife showed me a positive pregnancy test last night. So, for now, this case is closed.

TLDR of entire log -

- currently 35 years old
- trt injections for 2.5 years
- came off trt cold turkey
- immediately followed by 2 weeks of 500iu HCG ED
- immediately followed with ~12.5mg of clomid EOD (ongoing)
- We tried to conceive 3 times; march, april, may

Congrats!

 

[Cips1975]

Congrats brother. A little late to the thread but I am on TRT (2 years ) and on 250 iu of HcG Twice a weak concurrently and had a semen analysis a couple months back and was Fertile and overall ok. We starting the IVF process this week, so I’ll be giving another analysis likely in June. Hoping we get good news like you. I’m 44 so I ain’t getting any younger. My best

 

[D007Domo]

Congrats brother. A little late to the thread but I am on TRT (2 years ) and on 250 iu of HcG Twice a weak concurrently and had a semen analysis a couple months back and was Fertile and overall ok. We starting the IVF process this week, so I’ll be giving another analysis likely in June. Hoping we get good news like you. I’m 44 so I ain’t getting any younger. My best

Thanks, man. We are excited.

Good luck to you with that IVF - I understand it is quite a process. It amazes me what we're able to do these days. Furthest we ever got was an IUI (turned out my wife was the one with the fertility issues). It's nice to know some get back on TRT w/HCG and maintain fertility. I'll consider my next move once we come out of the first trimester probably.

 

[djjaxs007]

Congrats man, that’s awesome

 

[D007Domo]

Quick update:

I have done at home semen analysis this whole time, with some details not given in result. They just tell you whether or not you are above a certain threshold of motile sperm and you can review a little video of your swimmers. I got a little lazy with the clomid at one point and the results where definitely (not) there in the test - there were not nearly as many as other tests. Got back on track with clomid and next test, 3 weeks later, showed an obvious increase.

Anyway, my wife showed me a positive pregnancy test last night. So, for now, this case is closed.

TLDR of entire log -

- currently 35 years old
- trt injections for 2.5 years
- came off trt cold turkey
- immediately followed by 2 weeks of 500iu HCG ED
- immediately followed with ~12.5mg of clomid EOD (ongoing)
- We tried to conceive 3 times; march, april, may

Unfortunately, pregnancy referenced above ended in miscarriage. As did another one over the last couple days. It is hard not to wonder whether or not it is the quality of my swimmers. We are doing some in-depth testing shortly, will update here if any excel-relevant facts come to light.

Whatever results testing mentioned above produces, my time with clomid is almost up. I believe my vision has been impacted (hopefully temporarily), and some days I have so many floaters that it kind of becomes ridiculous. Also, it is kind of up and down in general - some weeks I have felt great, while others have felt just terrible (mentally, physically). I lifted up a table the other day with one of my crew, and both of my wrists hurt. Simple lift, no weird angles, no repitition - followed by pain.

Seems like it is time for HCG+FSH (and maybe TRT also?).