Putting TRT on hold to regain fertility. Should I Keep using hCG + Clomid/Torem?

[Dafox]

My gut response is that no, clomid will not overcome the suppression of hCG. I don't know for sure, honestly.

Do you have any of those studies you've read? Sometimes people only look at the abstract due to paywalls, and the full study has the lab results, if LH/FSH aren't <1 then clomid is overcoming the HPTA suppression.

I honestly don't see that hCG at the same dose as on TRT, will provide additional fertility as it will without TRT.

The study of TRT + hCG used 500 IU EOD. Much higher than what you're using.

Actually I am using that exact dosage and frequency. Also I would imagine there is a difference between RESTORING and preserving fertility on TRT?

My reasoning for wanting to use hCG instead of remaining on TRT, is that this way I am supposedly more likely recover FSH, which otherwise will be tanked on hCG + TRT. Especially if the combination of a SERM works.

Here is one of the studies/articles I was referring to:

1)"More recently, a larger retrospective series of 63 men given a combination of hCG 3000 IU 3 times per week and CC or tamoxifen demonstrated recovery of spermatogenesis to >1 × 10 6 ml -1 sperm in 98% of men in 4-5 months, with a mean initial sperm concentration of 22.6 × 10 6 ml -1 "

- http://www.ajandrology.com/article....ue=3;spage=373;epage=380;aulast=McBride#ref59

I am no scientist and my interpretation of some of this could be flawed. I would have liked to see if the success of combining hCG and Clomid was a result of the COMBINATION, of just the hCG alone. The full text of the Wenker study could be interesting, but I do not have access unfortunately.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Dafox
That is the best reference to date (and recent:2016) on the subject of spermatogenesis recovery after stopping TRT.


As you can see, it summarizes studies of different combinations






It also contains this paragraph

Maintenance of spermatogenesis before beginning or during TRT
or AAS use

A second scenario is a patient who wishes to preserve existing
spermatogenesis before beginning TRT or AAS use. Maintenance of
normal ITT levels is critically necessary to maintain spermatogenesis.
hCG has proven to maintain ITT levels with doses as low as 500 IU
every other day. Clinical data evaluating higher doses of hCG given
as monotherapy (500&#8211;2500 IU twice weekly), or low-dose hCG (500 IU
every other day) in combination with TRT, have demonstrated
satisfactory results for maintaining spermatogenesis, and either
would be a good choice as recommended by these authors.

This is a table that summarizes the HCG+TRT data from Lipshultz group




Source:
Asian Journal of Andrology (2016) 18, 373&#8211;380


They also reference this study done by Lipshultz group in Houston that gave men who stopped TRT clomiphene+HCG protocol (72% of men, others on anastrozole or tamoxifen plus HCG):

The Use of HCG-Based Combination Therapy for Recovery of Spermatogenesis after Testosterone Use


Here is their results (too bad they did not have a HCG and a Clomid-only arms to compare). We really cannot conclude if adding HCG really helped Clomid or anastrozole to work faster at sperm normalization.

 

[HealthMan]

I was taking 500iu 3x week and when I had a semen analysis, my numbers were 7.8x that of what the test listed as adequate. I coulda just looked at her and knocked her up I think.


Oh and prior to HCG I was on T only for roughly 3 years. Initial test came back with ZERO swimmers.

For how long did you take HCG at a dosage of 500IU 3x week before doing the semen analysis that showed these results?

 

[Lowt87]

How did it Go?
I am in the exactly same situation in Denmark with incompetent doctors...
They stopped me cold turkey after one year trt to see if my fertility goes back. Semen analysis has just been ordered trough my gp.

QUOTE=HealthMan;67742]For how long did you take HCG at a dosage of 500IU 3x week before doing the semen analysis that showed these results?[/QUOTE]

 

[badmood]

lowt i guess you really want kids bad enough if you were willing to agree to stop for a year?

 

[Gio]

Hey guys !! I actually came across this thread looking for answers myself I wanted to add my input that bad I just registered to this website to give you guys insight, dafox I'm actually in the same situation, been cycling test since December and I've just stopped a deca blast at 12 weeks because it's time I actually get serious about conceiving with my partner I have been putting it off for sometime now. And I've actually got my ass into gear. It's been 2 weeks since my last injection.

I originally intended to keep 1ml a week of test e per week a "trt" dose and try conceive but it's selfish of me and I'm going to do it the right way

I'm planning to do the following
100mg ED Of clomid
200mg of proviron
1500iu of HCG EOD mon/wed/Fri
*10iu of insulin 3x ED
*6iu of hgh ED
Insulin & hgh purely to try keep my muscle over this duration of trying to conceive.
Tomorrow I will go for a semen analysis, just to see where I'm at & then I will go for another one in 30days.

I really want to conceive before the start of November.

All I can say to you in dafox is on a large dose of HCG you will feel amazing.

Since we're are on the same journey, (a tough one) I'd love to stay in touch with you over the next few months and see how things are going for you.


Big hello from Australia

Gio

 

[richiek]

Hey guys! I am in the same journey. I came off trt in August, went to get Semen analysis and it was zero. Urologist prescribed me pregnyl 1500, 3 times a week for 4 weeks. Last shot was the end of January and going to get semen analysis in a week! How did everyone do here?

Hey guys !! I actually came across this thread looking for answers myself I wanted to add my input that bad I just registered to this website to give you guys insight, dafox I'm actually in the same situation, been cycling test since December and I've just stopped a deca blast at 12 weeks because it's time I actually get serious about conceiving with my partner I have been putting it off for sometime now. And I've actually got my ass into gear. It's been 2 weeks since my last injection.

I originally intended to keep 1ml a week of test e per week a "trt" dose and try conceive but it's selfish of me and I'm going to do it the right way

I'm planning to do the following
100mg ED Of clomid
200mg of proviron
1500iu of HCG EOD mon/wed/Fri
*10iu of insulin 3x ED
*6iu of hgh ED
Insulin & hgh purely to try keep my muscle over this duration of trying to conceive.
Tomorrow I will go for a semen analysis, just to see where I'm at & then I will go for another one in 30days.

I really want to conceive before the start of November.

All I can say to you in dafox is on a large dose of HCG you will feel amazing.

Since we're are on the same journey, (a tough one) I'd love to stay in touch with you over the next few months and see how things are going for you.


Big hello from Australia

Gio

 

[HealthMan]

Best drug for fertility is clomid in my opinion. Stopping TRT and using HCG will keep your HPT axis shutdown and supress LH and FSH. HCG mimics LH but not FSH (which is vital for fertility). So HCG only protocol for fertility is a poor protocol. Add FSH is an option. But clomid should work better in most cases and it is much cheaper