Extensive Bloodwork After 3 Months on TRT

[mopes]

May I suggest lab work the day of shot, just prior to injection (as is reasonable)? It will give you a better picture of your trough.

I think we are saying the same thing.

I run the labs the same day I'm due for my next shot. Wake up, hit the lab at 8 am when they open, then inject. So if I inject on Saturday and next injection is due for Monday (EOD schedule) then I'd run labs Monday morning prior to injection.

 

[CoastWatcher]

I think we are saying the same thing.

I run the labs the same day I'm due for my next shot. Wake up, hit the lab at 8 am when they open, then inject. So if I inject on Saturday and next injection is due for Monday (EOD schedule) then I'd run labs Monday morning prior to injection.

We're in sync. It's interesting that with that high a total testosterone value your estradiol clocked in at a moderately elevated range. It fascinates me to follow e2 conversion reports. I agree that a doseage manipulation would be worth trying in order to lower it.

 

[mopes]

We're in sync. It's interesting that with that high a total testosterone value your estradiol clocked in at a moderately elevated range. It fascinates me to follow e2 conversion reports. I agree that a doseage manipulation would be worth trying in order to lower it.

E2 is one of the most fascinating parts for me to follow as well. Might be worth noting that I'm 6 foot, 185 with low body fat. Thinking I'll lower the dose down to 40 or so EOD and then add in the hcg as I haven't tried 500 twice a week. Gonna be interesting to see what happens to E2 after that.

 

[CoastWatcher]

E2 is one of the most fascinating parts for me to follow as well. Might be worth noting that I'm 6 foot, 185 with low body fat. Thinking I'll lower the dose down to 40 or so EOD and then add in the hcg as I haven't tried 500 twice a week. Gonna be interesting to see what happens to E2 after that.

I'm another big believer in avoiding an AI when possible (and inject on a daily basis in order to do so). I fully expected HCG to be a wildcardmin the protocol but it didn't pose a problem. Of course, I don't "feel" a thing as a result of injecting HCG but keep at it for all the other reasons.

 

[mopes]

I'm another big believer in avoiding an AI when possible (and inject on a daily basis in order to do so). I fully expected HCG to be a wildcardmin the protocol but it didn't pose a problem. Of course, I don't "feel" a thing as a result of injecting HCG but keep at it for all the other reasons.

I've followed your journey a bit here and there. Glad you're getting solid results from daily injections. If you were me what would you drop the cyp dose down to on an EOD schedule?

 

[johndoesmith]

Yes, could certainly lower the dose a bit. Perhaps 40-45 mg EOD. Didn't feel sick on those labs with the elevated WBC but very well could have been fighting something, concerned me but normalized by the next labs.

Iron situation is concerning to me as well, have never donated blood so not sure what's going on there aside from diet? Did some intermittent fasting and was sucking down a ton of coffee/cocoa which binds the shit outta iron from what I've read. I don't have another explanation for it so maybe I'm just grasping at straws...

Worth pointing out that I have been taking supplemental iron since I found out how low it was as I was also getting ready to start WP thyroid at the time. Any thoughts on the iron/ferritin levels?

yeah definitely lower dose, the white count seems to have gone away as you said so probably not an issue.

With iron and ferritin, I have a low ferritin myself but I've donated a bit of blood myself, but it was still low end before that IMO. I haven't found any answers, even talked to a PA at defy and she said it wasn't a big deal, although mine was 25 after donating blood twice this year, so it should have been about 65 before that. Generally in men, it's either blood loss or GI issues causing low iron.

I'm not exactly sure what you should do in your case, as it's low, and no blood loss(due to donation) so maybe ask your doctor?

 

[CoastWatcher]

I've followed your journey a bit here and there. Glad you're getting solid results from daily injections. If you were me what would you drop the cyp dose down to on an EOD schedule?

You noted you inject 50-55mg currently on an eod schedule, right? I'd, first of all, standardize whatever you inject. If it's 50, be sure it's 50; I've seen how seemingly small amounts of testosterone can impact numbers. I believe I'd inject 40mg every other day and see where things sit after four to six weeks.

 

[mopes]

Yes, started at 50mg then slowly started bumping it up to 55mg as I realized that I could draw more like 1.1ml into the syringe before pre loading.

I've dropped the dose to 40mg EOD and 600IU HCG on every other shot day. Puts weekly dose at 140mg of T (lowest I've tried) and 1050 IU HCG. Will pull labs in ~4 weeks and update.

 

[mopes]

Went in today for extensive new labs. Been on 40mg EOD and 600IU HCG on every other shot day. Puts weekly dose at 140mg of T (lowest I've tried) and 1050 IU HCG.

Will update soon as I get results back. Really interested to see if the hcg spiked my E2 even with a lower T dose.

 

[mopes]

Been on 40mg EOD and 600IU HCG on every other shot day. Also on 25mg of DHEA 2x daily. Puts weekly dose at 140mg of T (lowest I've tried) and 1050 IU HCG.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Been on 40mg EOD and 600IU HCG on every other shot day. Also on 25mg of DHEA 2x daily. Puts weekly dose at 140mg of T (lowest I've tried) and 1050 IU HCG.

Testosterone remains high, and E2 still up a bit. SHBG up, too, from June. How are you feeling?

 

[mopes]

Let's try that again, hopefully this adds the test results into the body of post instead of as attachments.

Found it interesting that E2 is about the same as it was with T dose 25%-30% higher, so looks like hcg does increase my e2 levels but not to the extent I first assumed. Going to bump my thyroid dose back to 2.5 grain. Gonna drop the hcg for a while as I feel nothing from it, need to decide if I leave my t dose the same or bump it back up to 50mg EOD.

 

[mopes]

Feeling pretty good, bit emotional from time to time. Tired in the afternoon but hopefully tweaking the thyroid dose a bit will help with that. Testosterone is still high, as you mentioned, even after dropping the dose down to 140mg a week...

Can't get my damn LDL and HDL in line.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Feeling pretty good, bit emotional from time to time. Tired in the afternoon but hopefully tweaking the thyroid dose a bit will help with that. Testosterone is still high, as you mentioned, even after dropping the dose down to 140mg a week...

Can't get my damn LDL and HDL in line.

I fight the HDL and LDL battle, too. It is improving in my case. My A1c has dropped a bit.

 

[mopes]

I fight the HDL and LDL battle, too. It is improving in my case. My A1c has dropped a bit.

Thought my A1c would come down more than it has. Sat right at 5.6 before starting metformin but even after months of use it's only down to 5.4. Anything HDL or LDL related that you've been able to verify as being beneficial through labs?

 

[johndoesmith]

Thought my A1c would come down more than it has. Sat right at 5.6 before starting metformin but even after months of use it's only down to 5.4. Anything HDL or LDL related that you've been able to verify as being beneficial through labs?

I have to say, this is by far the most extensive, detailed, and dedicated anecdote of TRT I've ever seen. Bravo.

I only wish you would have standardized things, so instead of dropping test and adding in hCG, only doing one. I do think that hCG has an impact on your E2.

SHBG increase is easily explained by the addition of thyroid hormones.

HDL has decreased mildly and that's probably from the supraphysiological levels of testosterone and LDL has remained the same since June. I honestly don't think your lipid panel is all that bad, LDL is mostly genetic AFAIK and HDL is somewhat low but I think lowering test dose a bit will help there.

I imagine you're above 40 years old?

Over all, getting E2 down by lowering test, will be a major improvement to your overall protocol. You can do without AI IMO maybe go to 120mg per week?

 

[mopes]

I have to say, this is by far the most extensive, detailed, and dedicated anecdote of TRT I've ever seen. Bravo.

I appreciate that, trt was not a decision I took/take lightly so I better damn well back it up with data.

SHBG increase is easily explained by the addition of thyroid hormones.

Wasn't aware of a relationship before you mentioned it, something else to research.

I imagine you're above 40 years old?

I'm 36.

 

[johndoesmith]

I appreciate that, trt was not a decision I took/take lightly so I better damn well back it up with data.

Wasn't aware of a relationship before you mentioned it, something else to research.

I'm 36.

Understood! My protocol has been simple so far, hopefully it continues to be, so I don't think it'd be too interesting if I made a post like yours.

Increasing thyroid hormones absolutely increases SHBG, specifically free T3, I've found this although it's in women.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9347411

http://www.eje-online.org/content/137/4/415.short

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.1939-4640.1988.tb01038.x/epdf

T3 absolutely increases SHBG, so much so, that it's been suggested to be used to assess thyroid hormone replacement.

Heh sorry, didn't mean to call you old, it was just your maturity that suggested to me that you were older.

 

[Vince]

Feeling pretty good, bit emotional from time to time. Tired in the afternoon but hopefully tweaking the thyroid dose a bit will help with that. Testosterone is still high, as you mentioned, even after dropping the dose down to 140mg a week...

Can't get my damn LDL and HDL in line.

Do you have your D levels checked, supplementing with D3 and niacin has help my HDL and going low carb has help lower my LDL.https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?8541-My-Latest-Cleveland-Heart-Clinic-Labs

 

[mopes]

Understood! My protocol has been simple so far, hopefully it continues to be, so I don't think it'd be too interesting if I made a post like yours.

Increasing thyroid hormones absolutely increases SHBG, specifically free T3, I've found this although it's in women.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9347411

http://www.eje-online.org/content/137/4/415.short

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.1939-4640.1988.tb01038.x/epdf

T3 absolutely increases SHBG, so much so, that it's been suggested to be used to assess thyroid hormone replacement.

Heh sorry, didn't mean to call you old, it was just your maturity that suggested to me that you were older.

No worries, I appreciate the feedback.