E2 to T Ratio: When is higher E2 better?

[30005Gator]

My Total T (trough) is around 1,300. My E2 is at 26. That's a low E2 ratio...too low?

I've always read/heard that mid 20's is best, but at what T level?

According to the E2:T ratio calculation I found [min is (Total T)/20, max is (Total T)/14)] I should be between 65 and 93. But would that mean I might develop high E2 symptoms, or is that ok since the Total T is 1300?

I don't really feel like I have low E2 symptoms, but I'm not certain. I do have very dry skin. I've crashed my E2 before, so I know what that feels like. Erections are usually good. Libido isn't raging, but not bad.

Protocol:
100mg Test Cyp E3.5D
0.3mg Arimidex with pin
700iu HCG EOD

Thanks in advance!!

 

[Vince Carter]

I don't think your T level is a marker ever has been for what is high or low E, and the ratio is pure bunk...it's useless.
a E2 Sens of 26 by the number is not low and if you'r enot suffering with negative symptoms one way or the other and it sounds like your reasonable satisfied then you should ignore that stuff and work off of how you feel. If 26 is it...than go with it.

 

[Vince Carter]

Note too where is your SHBG at? Also, 700iu HCG EOD is very high dose uncommon in TRT where 500 3x per week is a typical max dose.

 

[captain]

Last VOV with Crisler my E2 was 26 and he said he would like to see it higher. He never said how I was to do that.

 

[30005Gator]

I don't think your T level is a marker ever has been for what is high or low E, and the ratio is pure bunk...it's useless.
a E2 Sens of 26 by the number is not low and if you'r enot suffering with negative symptoms one way or the other and it sounds like your reasonable satisfied then you should ignore that stuff and work off of how you feel. If 26 is it...than go with it.

Thanks for the response Vince.

I think I am just concerned with AIs given everything and wondering if I'd be best w/o it and a higher E2 (~58 last time I went w/o AI). I will likely be lowering my dose.

My SHBG is 36.1.

I wasn't responding to HCG at 500iu MWF, so I'm trying an 11,000 vial at 700iu EOD. So far, I've felt really good at this dose.

 

[30005Gator]

Last VOV with Crisler my E2 was 26 and he said he would like to see it higher. He never said how I was to do that.

Wow...that stinks. I was able to raise mine after my first Dr crashed it by taking more HCG and adding DHEA (not micronized).

 

[captain]

Wow...that stinks. I was able to raise mine after my first Dr crashed it by taking more HCG and adding DHEA (not micronized).

I do 150 HCG maybe changing to 500 protocol would increase it. DHEA with levels in upper 500s never increased my E2.

 

[Vince Carter]

Last VOV with Crisler my E2 was 26 and he said he would like to see it higher. He never said how I was to do that.

The problem with that is lets assume that was your trough which makes it a tiny snapshot of E at it's lowest point, which IS NOT static. (or stable).
E rises with your T; E follows T...a 26 is in no way a low number, not by a long shot. I think you would be remarkably surprised if you took some labs in a peak as opposed to a trough....your E is much higher than that tiny number that is taken in a vacuum such as the trough.

 

[Vince]

You could just try dropping your AI and see what results you get.

 

[captain]

The problem with that is lets assume that was your trough which makes it a tiny snapshot of E at it's lowest point, which IS NOT static. (or stable).
E rises with your T; E follows T...a 26 is in no way a low number, not by a long shot. I think you would be remarkably surprised if you took some labs in a peak as opposed to a trough....your E is much higher than that tiny number that is taken in a vacuum such as the trough.

I use gel and labs are always 2-3hrs after. I don't know how much it moves around on gels. Highest I can find in old labs is 28 and lowest with out AI of 15. Testing of an AI one time took it to 7. I don't use an AI.

 

[Vince Carter]

Gels alters the testing strategy I was speaking to what is most common for all us which is injection strategy.

 

[S1W]

I accept that the T:E ratio may be bogus, correlation does not imply causation, etc.

However, right before my labs I always take detailed notes about how I was feeling at the time both physically and mentally, what protocol I was on, etc. I do this before my labs so that my notes are not influenced by whatever numbers I see when I get the results.

I can rank my labs in descending order from feeling best to worst and the T:E ratio follows. According to my notes, I was feeling best when T:E was 18-20 and felt the worst when it was 12-14.

 

[S1W]

My Total T (trough) is around 1,300. My E2 is at 26. That's a low E2 ratio...too low?

I've always read/heard that mid 20's is best, but at what T level?

According to the E2:T ratio calculation I found [min is (Total T)/20, max is (Total T)/14)] I should be between 65 and 93. But would that mean I might develop high E2 symptoms, or is that ok since the Total T is 1300?

I don't really feel like I have low E2 symptoms, but I'm not certain. I do have very dry skin. I've crashed my E2 before, so I know what that feels like. Erections are usually good. Libido isn't raging, but not bad.

Protocol:
100mg Test Cyp E3.5D
0.3mg Arimidex with pin
700iu HCG EOD

Thanks in advance!!

I'm not sure that I follow the formulas you found. The ratio is T:E - which for you would be 1300/26. This gives you a ratio of 50, which does seem high.

Overall I think Vince Carter nailed it though - if you're feeling good, stick with it and don't worry about ratios, etc.

 

[Vince Carter]

When I ran the ratio and why I generally dispel it is based on the 14-20 my sens E2 was North of 70, might have been 88 at one-time, and I was a mess. Dull orgasm, body acne was terribly out of control, moody/aggressive/combative, I was not doing well by any means.
Just the opposite my Sens E2 being in the single digits and I'm the best I've ever been on TRT; 562 TT and Sens E2 is 3. Total polar opposite on the "ratio". But I have SHBG @ 12, too. Important footnote.

 

[jhperez81]

When I ran the ratio and why I generally dispel it is based on the 14-20 my sens E2 was North of 70, might have been 88 at one-time, and I was a mess. Dull orgasm, body acne was terribly out of control, moody/aggressive/combative, I was not doing well by any means.
Just the opposite my Sens E2 being in the single digits and I'm the best I've ever been on TRT; 562 TT and Sens E2 is 3. Total polar opposite on the "ratio". But I have SHBG @ 12, too. Important footnote.

I agree I think using a ratio of Total T to Total E2 is flawed due to the SHBG factor. Now if we had more data on a Free T to Free E2 ratio that might be something to look at.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I think you mean T/E2 not E2/T

 

[GeauxBears]

My personal experience tells me that T/E2 ratio, not just absolute values, does very much matter in terms of my symptoms.

 

[[email protected]]

Ideal estrogen levels vary person to person. Mine is optimal 15-25, and 1200<T<1600 (200mg/week) is optimal through trial and error. Above 1600 increases my libido and thinking speed in reducing increments, but high (for me) estrogen becomes an issue at that point too.

 

[BayArea]

Ideal estrogen levels vary person to person. Mine is optimal 15-25, and 1200<T<1600 (200mg/week) is optimal through trial and error. Above 1600 increases my libido and thinking speed in reducing increments, but high (for me) estrogen becomes an issue at that point too.

This. We all need to get out of the mindset that we should be chasing numbers. I still run into providers who want to treat a number instead of the patient. Some people are E2 sensitive (like me) and feel horrible with what others would consider "normal."

 

[DragonBits]

Please correct my thinking if it is wrong.

Total T isn't what really affects E2, it's Free T.

So a high TT and low FT would result in LESS E2, while a lower TT but higher FT would result in more E2? (In the same individual, all other things being equal).

TT being more or less bound up by SHBG and not available for conversion to E2.