E2 sweet spot, it's a ratio

[eli]

So I've been looking at some bloodwork, anytime my E2 passed my FT, I started to have high E problems. The bigger the difference, the bigger the side effects. Now anytime E2 was similar/closer to FT maybe just a couple of points below or above, I felt great. When E2 was much lower than FT, I felt low E2 side effects

Just an observation, now if there's anyone here with much higher E2 than FT and still feelz amazing, then that's a myth buster

I know 100% it's a ratio thing, I don't know what to what. I personally don't think it's E2 to TT. Sweet spot is not just some magic number

 

[TorontoTRT]

It’s possible. My last test my E2 was 166 pmol scale being <162 pmol so just above range and my free T was 627 pmol ranges (196-636)

 

[slicktop]

I'm a big believer in E2 to SHBG ratio being the driving factor, which would also correlate to free T seeing as how SHBG regulates that also. I feel best when my estradiol is within about 10% of my SHBG, with a preference to the low end.

 

[TorontoTRT]

That’s not accurate ratio wise. E2 will always go up with TT but shbg doesn’t change much. If your TT is 1000 your E2 should be well above 50-60. Most people don’t have SHBG in the 50-60. If your TT is 1000 abs your E2 is like 25 you will experience symptoms. Low libido etc.

 

[slicktop]

I'm not saying E2 wouldn't rise to that level in some men as you stated- I'm saying that I personally feel like shit if my E2 gets above my SHBG, regardless of how high my testosterone is. I guess what I should have said is "I'm a big believer in E2 to SHBG ratio being the driving factor in how you feel" simply based on my own experience. Anecdotally though, I'm maintaining at close to 1050 total/22 free with my E2 and SHBG in the 25 range with very little AI these days, and this is where I feel the best.

 

[Pringle]

I'm not saying E2 wouldn't rise to that level in some men as you stated- I'm saying that I personally feel like shit if my E2 gets above my SHBG, regardless of how high my testosterone is. I guess what I should have said is "I'm a big believer in E2 to SHBG ratio being the driving factor in how you feel" simply based on my own experience. Anecdotally though, I'm maintaining at close to 1050 total/22 free with my E2 and SHBG in the 25 range with very little AI these days, and this is where I feel the best.

Me too.....when my SHBG and E2 are in close range of each other, I feel my best as well. My SHBG stabilized in the low 30’s.....When I manage my E2 to this range it is my sweet spot!

 

[Appassionato]

E2 will always go up with TT but shbg doesn’t change much.

That's false.
I've tested SHBG on the same protocol both at peak and through and there was a variation of 10 points, with peaks having the lower SHBG value.
From what I've seen in these years, the more amount of T is in your body, the lower your SHBG will be.
But that's purely anecdotal, and I don't have any explanation for that.

 

[TorontoTRT]

Yes. High TT drives SHBG down and E2 up. So not sure how one could have E2 and shbg match. (Without AI)

 

[Pringle]

Yes. High TT drives SHBG down and E2 up. So not sure how one could have E2 and shbg match. (Without AI)

I have achieved this experimenting with three different methods....one was low dose AI, two was no AI, but the removal of HCG from my regiment, and 3 was no AI, using HCG, and lowering my dose of T. All three worked in gettin’ my E2 and SHBG in close proximity range.

 

[Deleted member 12831]

That’s not accurate ratio wise. E2 will always go up with TT but shbg doesn’t change much. If your TT is 1000 your E2 should be well above 50-60. Most people don’t have SHBG in the 50-60. If your TT is 1000 abs your E2 is like 25 you will experience symptoms. Low libido etc.

I am not sure about ratios or anything like that but SHBG increases the half life of testosterone and estradiol. So, if shbg is elevated it would make total t and e higher . However, of course, that does not necessarily correlate with free usable estradiol . I am a little hesitant on saying what a level should be for estradiol, because that doesn't always seem to correlate well with free estradiol levels
Sex hormone-binding globulin regulation of androgen bioactivity in vivo: validation of the free hormone hypothesis

Testosterone and Estradiol among Older Men

 

[Cataceous]

...
I've tested SHBG on the same protocol both at peak and through and there was a variation of 10 points, with peaks having the lower SHBG value.
...

That's an interesting observation, and I have a recent measurement that could suggest the same. The problem I have is in reconciling this with research results from normal men, who show minimal diurnal variation in SHBG in spite of pretty significant variations in testosterone. Any ideas?

 

[CROM]

It’s possible. My last test my E2 was 166 pmol scale being <162 pmol so just above range and my free T was 627 pmol ranges (196-636)

I keep hearing people say that when E2 is out of range it can cause softer erections, affect SHBG or increase/decrease acne, libido and other effects.

I have low SHBG (9), high E2 (46) and my FT is usually 19 or 20. My total T is usually between 436 and 460. I inject 70 mg per week, small injections EOD.

I just started experimenting with AI to bring my E2 down to a level where I might feel best, cuz who wouldn’t want better erections and such. I was gonna adjust my dosage and do bloodwork every 15 days until I reach the theory of E2 “sweet spot”.

I only inject 70 mg per week cuz anything more gives me acne. So if I can lessen side-effects by reducing my E2, maybe I can inject 100 mg per week and feel even better. Who knows.

I've also noticed that when my E2 is higher my SHBG is lower and vice versa.

 

[TorontoTRT]

Acne comes due to any hormonal imbalance or adjustment. I get acne every time I change a protocol. Just inject 15 mg everyday and ride it out for 12 - 16 weeks. No AI. You’ll see it will all sort itself out. People tinker too much and get OCD like I used to.

 

[slicktop]

I keep hearing people say that when E2 is out of range it can cause softer erections, affect SHBG or increase/decrease acne, libido and other effects.

I have low SHBG (9), high E2 (46) and my FT is usually 19 or 20. My total T is usually between 436 and 460. I inject 70 mg per week, small injections EOD.

I just started experimenting with AI to bring my E2 down to a level where I might feel best, cuz who wouldn’t want better erections and such. I was gonna adjust my dosage and do bloodwork every 15 days until I reach the theory of E2 “sweet spot”.

I only inject 70 mg per week cuz anything more gives me acne. So if I can lessen side-effects by reducing my E2, maybe I can inject 100 mg per week and feel even better. Who knows.

here's me playing my broken record again: try DIM also. DIM helps get estrogen out of your system, while AI slows the aromatization. Two very different processes. The combination of both DIM and AI is the only thing that worked for me when I had E2 problems.

 

[CROM]

Acne comes due to any hormonal imbalance or adjustment. I get acne every time I change a protocol. Just inject 15 mg everyday and ride it out for 12 - 16 weeks. No AI. You’ll see it will all sort itself out. People tinker too much and get OCD like I used to.

Maybe after trying this I will try your method. But this is just a short-term experiment. I’ve never focused on micro-managing my TRT. I inject every other day, take a couple OTC vitamins and that’s it. Otherwise I don’t take HCG, DHEA AI etc. And from what I’ve heard AI shouldn’t be a long-term solution.

 

[ssc68]

E2 is a big hassle to hit the sweet spot. One thing I suggest is to get the ultra sensitive E2 test not the regular one. My doctor did not even think about that until I suggested it. Good luck

 

[eli]

My SHBG is usually 11-13 and I tell you what, I'd get horrible low E2 side effects If E2 went that low. so it's def not SHBG to E2 ratio

So far the only thing I have found for me personally is E2 being close to Free Testosterone

 

[slicktop]

My SHBG is usually 11-13 and I tell you what, I'd get horrible low E2 side effects If E2 went that low. so it's def not SHBG to E2 ratio

So far the only thing I have found for me personally is E2 being close to Free Testosterone

Well, again... Let's not go with a one size fits all approach. You've concluded that E2: SHBG isn't the ratio to look at for you...that doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to look at for others. E2:SHBG has been the biggest revelation in TRT for me, personally.

 

[Gman86]

Good to have a few options now, in regards to ratios. T:E, SHBG:E, free T:E. Guess if one doesn’t work well, try the others

 

[ssc68]

Hi guys:
My numbers are:
E2 Sensitive 43
Total T 685
Free T 154.8
SHGB 15
Can someone calculate my ratio and tell me how I‘m doing please?
Thanks