Dialed in on Testosterone Propionate, How to Switch to Cypionate

[lebroseixoife]

If I were dialed in on ED Propionate injections, how does one transfer that to Cypionate effectively? What is the strategy?
Do I use steroidplotter.com and plug in various amounts of Cypionate until it matches the level for Propionate?

 

[t_spacemonkey]

just match the dose + some extra due to ester weight and start juicing. you not going to get it 100%, i would prob stick to 3x/week
if you dialed in prop you might feel worse on cyp (reason i switched to prop)

 

[Jerajera]

I would keep Test C injections infrequent, at least E5D if not once/week. The gap between peak and trough levels won't be anything close to natural in terms of diurnal rhythm but given the respective half-lives of Test P and Test C, I believe infrequent injections on Test C will come closest to recreating how you were feeling on Test P since it seems you were feeling good on it.

As @t_spacemonkey said though, I expect you won't feel nearly as good on Test C. I'm not sure what is prompting that change but if you felt dialed in on Test P I personally would not change protocols unless someone put a gun to my head.

 

[lebroseixoife]

I am not talking about comparing certain methods/effectiveness between transdermal vs injections.

I am speaking of testosterone esters.

Again as stated "It is also important to stress the fact that esters do not alter the activity of the parent steroid in any way. They work only to slow its release"

The ester only controls the release rate from the injection depot.

Once free in circulation, enzymes will quickly remove the ester chain and the parent hormone will be free to exert its activity (while the ester is present the steroid is inert).

Regardless of the ester used..... "Once free in circulation, enzymes will quickly remove the ester chain and the parent hormone will be free to exert its activity (while the ester is present the steroid is inert)"

Propionate will hit the system quicker but again once the ester is cleaved testosterone is testosterone and it comes down to how said dose of T effects ones TT/FT/e2/dht levels and dose of T/injection frequency and ones SHBG levels will play a strong role.

Suppose I understand what @madman is saying here, that the ester does not affect the steroid's activity in any way.
Suppose I am taking Testosterone Propionate every day. In that case, I have very minimal highs and lows of testosterone saturation in my body, which should allow everything else to remain stable, such as SHBG, E2, DHT, etc. No?
If I am taking Testosterone Cypionate, every 4 days, then I should be able to achieve something with minimal highs and lows.
For example, from SteroidPlotter.com.
Blue is 7.5mg of Testosterone Propionate ED; 52.6mg weekly.
Purple is 40mg of Testosterone Cypionate E4D. 70mg a weekly.
Either one looks like they have minimal highs and lows.
Why wouldn't the effects be the same if the estimated saturation was nearly the same?

 

[Jerajera]

Suppose I am taking Testosterone Propionate every day. In that case, I have very minimal highs and lows of testosterone saturation in my body, which should allow everything else to remain stable, such as SHBG, E2, DHT, etc. No?

No. Test P has a half-life around 18-20 hours, which is supported by a lot of anecdotal evidence from guys who've tested both peak and trough levels (myself included) on daily Test P injections, showing a drop in TT and FT of 50% or greater over a 24 hour period.

You have to take half-life into acount when talking about administration frequency. Daily Test P is probably closer to Test C injected once every 10 days.

 

[lebroseixoife]

No. Test P has a half-life around 18-20 hours, which is supported by a lot of anecdotal evidence from guys who've tested both peak and trough levels (myself included) on daily Test P injections, showing a drop in TT and FT of 50% or greater over a 24 hour period.

You have to take half-life into acount when talking about administration frequency. Daily Test P is probably closer to Test C injected once every 10 days.

Just to be clear, we are saying that prop peaks in like 12 hours and hits the trough in 24 hours (half life). Right?

 

[Jerajera]

Just to be clear, we are saying that prop peaks in like 12 hours and hits the trough in 24 hours (half life). Right?

No, Prop peaks much faster in around 3 hours and the trough is whenever you inject next (or as low as your levels will drop before stabilizing), so if you're injecting daily then it'll be 24 hours after your last injection, but the half-life and the trough are not the same thing.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Suppose I understand what @madman is saying here, that the ester does not affect the steroid's activity in any way.
Suppose I am taking Testosterone Propionate every day. In that case, I have very minimal highs and lows of testosterone saturation in my body, which should allow everything else to remain stable, such as SHBG, E2, DHT, etc. No?
If I am taking Testosterone Cypionate, every 4 days, then I should be able to achieve something with minimal highs and lows.
For example, from SteroidPlotter.com.
Blue is 7.5mg of Testosterone Propionate ED; 52.6mg weekly.
Purple is 40mg of Testosterone Cypionate E4D. 70mg a weekly.
Either one looks like they have minimal highs and lows.
Why wouldn't the effects be the same if the estimated saturation was nearly the same?
View attachment 50678

1) Madman is correct on many things, but not the effects of ester.

2) Steroidplotter is very inaccurate / unrealistic. Use steroidplanner.com for more realistic modeling.

3) I guarantee there is no dosage of Cypionate taken E4D that will duplicate the effects of your ED propionate protocol. You might find a dose where you feel good, but it will still be different in noticeable ways.

 

[Systemlord]

If I were dialed in on ED Propionate injections, how does one transfer that to Cypionate effectively? What is the strategy?

You're basically stating all over as far as dialing in your dosage/injection frequency. The strategy is experimentation to see what works best for you.

This dialing in on cypionate could take 3-6 months.

 

[Forty2]

No, Prop peaks much faster in around 3 hours and the trough is whenever you inject next (or as low as your levels will drop before stabilizing), so if you're injecting daily then it'll be 24 hours after your last injection, but the half-life and the trough are not the same thing.

What time of day do you think is best to dose prop for someone who is taking 350iu hCG every 3rd morning?

 

[lebroseixoife]

No, Prop peaks much faster in around 3 hours and the trough is whenever you inject next (or as low as your levels will drop before stabilizing), so if you're injecting daily then it'll be 24 hours after your last injection, but the half-life and the trough are not the same thing.

What is the difference between the half-life and the trough? I guess I assumed they were the same?

 

[Systemlord]

What is the difference between the half-life and the trough? I guess I assumed they were the same?

Half-life is the time it takes for half the medicine to decline to 50% and the trough is your lowest hormone level before you next dose.

 

[Jerajera]

What time of day do you think is best to dose prop for someone who is taking 350iu hCG every 3rd morning?

It's hard to say because we're all very different. For example if I took 350iu hCG at once, and especially while already on Prop, I would get insane panic attacks one after the other until I jumped off a bridge.

That said, Prop is generally very stimulating for almost everyone, I wouldn't be able to sleep at all if I injected at night. Perhaps if you're doing subQ injections but I would recommend against that at this point.

Prop also kicks in very fast, so I think it's great as a morning routine to get the day started with high energy.

 

[Willyt]

Did you ever say why you are switching from TP to TC?

 

[t_spacemonkey]

It's hard to say because we're all very different. For example if I took 350iu hCG at once, and especially while already on Prop, I would get insane panic attacks one after the other until I jumped off a bridge.

That said, Prop is generally very stimulating for almost everyone, I wouldn't be able to sleep at all if I injected at night. Perhaps if you're doing subQ injections but I would recommend against that at this point.

Prop also kicks in very fast, so I think it's great as a morning routine to get the day started with high energy.

interesting, the anxiety is most likely from e2. i had similar issues with hcg /prop in the past, but more at like 2k IU dosing. way i knew its e2 is that by taking anastrazole 0.25mg it all left within 6h or so. i learned that hcg doesn't do a whole lot above 3x500IU for me

 

[t_spacemonkey]

defy stopped selling Tprop and also reduced vial sizes + prices went pretty high. not blaming defy directly, this is some fda crap most likely (other then prop removal which is empower) which was the tipping point for me to go UGL. the difference how I feel prop<>cyp is day and night. that said been experimenting with some enanthate and it feels much better then cyp

 

[Willyt]

interesting, the anxiety is most likely from e2. i had similar issues with hcg /prop in the past, but more at like 2k IU dosing. way i knew its e2 is that by taking anastrazole 0.25mg it all left within 6h or so. i learned that hcg doesn't do a whole lot above 3x500IU for me

I now think that TP related anxiety is driven by a surge in E2 more than the total E2 level.

Any maybe that is applicable to all forms of short-acting T. For example, on Natesto and other acting nasal gels, I would often experience mini anxiety attacks several hours after the T spike had subsided. In those cases, my E2 was probably at moderate level, but was way out of balance because of how quickly it had increased. Just a theory....

 

[BadassBlues]

If I were dialed in on ED Propionate injections, how does one transfer that to Cypionate effectively? What is the strategy?
Do I use steroidplotter.com and plug in various amounts of Cypionate until it matches the level for Propionate?

I have to ask, if you are dialed in and things are good, what is your reasoning for wanting to change?

 

[BadassBlues]

1) Madman is correct on many things, but not the effects of ester.

2) Steroidplotter is very inaccurate / unrealistic. Use steroidplanner.com for more realistic modeling.

3) I guarantee there is no dosage of Cypionate taken E4D that will duplicate the effects of your ED propionate protocol. You might find a dose where you feel good, but it will still be different in noticeable ways.

"You might find a dose where you feel good, but it will still be different in noticeable ways."

Very true. Cypionate is slow and predictable and keeps levels fairly consistent with regular dosing. Propionate peaks faster and isn't as predictable. Those changes will have an effect on many things, libido, mood, neurotransmitters etc...

Propionate hits me at about the 5-hour mark and it gives a noticeable libido bump and an increase in assertiveness which wears off after a day. Cypionate is "gentler" for lack of a better word. Libido is good overall, and no mood swings.

I use both for different reasons, I like propionate for weekends.

 

[Systemlord]

I have to ask, if you are dialed in and things are good, what is your reasoning for wanting to change?

I'll bet it has something to do with being a daily pincushion for life.

There's always Kyzatrex.