DHN vs DHT?

[S1W]

I'm struggling with how to articulate my question, but here goes:

My DHT levels are relatively low, even with higher levels of TT/FT. Having used scrotal cream and boosted DHT levels in the past, I do feel like I benefit from it.

If I supplement my protocol with scrotal cream to increase DHT, yet at the same time am using nandrolone, will the DHN 5α-Dihydronandrolone from nandrolone interfere with my goal of increasing DHT and the benefits I feel from higher DHT levels?

 

[bochinit]

Yes, it will.

 

[benaoao]

I’d be highly surprised that you’ll get a lot of DHN from nandrolone, if you had rather low DHT naturally. I’m positive people with”DHN” issues are those with high DHT issues, meaning high 5ar activity which is a sign of metabolic syndrome (DUTCH tests confirm this).

I’m gonna go for a No, it won’t.

 

[S1W]

@Cataceous @Gman86

You guys have any thoughts on this? Thanks.

 

[Gman86]

The whole DHN and DHT thing is a little confusing to me, but I would think that u would have so much DHT floating around that it would easily overpower the DHN in ur system. I’m not really sure why the DHN in ur system would interfere with the DHT benefits u would get from the scrotal cream

 

[Cataceous]

...
If I supplement my protocol with scrotal cream to increase DHT, yet at the same time am using nandrolone, will the DHN from nandrolone interfere with my goal of increasing DHT and the benefits I feel from higher DHT levels?

The first part, increasing DHT, may be pretty straightforward. Scrotal cream is putting a very high concentration of testosterone in contact with dermal 5-alpha reductase. A relatively low concentration of nandrolone and DHN should have minimal influence on DHT creation under these circumstances. In other words, it would take very high doses of nandrolone to make the concentration high enough to seriously compete with the transdermal testosterone and reduce DHT formation.

The question of whether DHN can interfere with the benefits of higher DHT is more complicated. First, can you identify what causes the benefits of higher DHT? Is it receptor binding? If so, androgen receptor, estrogen receptor, SHBG, other? Does aromatase inhibition play a role? Any other mechanisms? Once that's known then you have to determine how DHN might affect these. With receptors we'd consider the relative binding affinities of DHT and DHN, and then explore the further question of whether or not you get different effects depending on which androgen binds to the receptor. In the end there might be enough fodder here for someone's doctoral thesis. A quick-and-dirty answer might be possible if you could demonstrate that DHN concentrations are relatively low, though even that requires some digging...

 

[DS3]

@Cataceous @Gman86

You guys have any thoughts on this? Thanks.

Lol no one ever includes me

 

[DS3]

I'm struggling with how to articulate my question, but here goes:

My DHT levels are relatively low, even with higher levels of TT/FT. Having used scrotal cream and boosted DHT levels in the past, I do feel like I benefit from it.

If I supplement my protocol with scrotal cream to increase DHT, yet at the same time am using nandrolone, will the DHN from nandrolone interfere with my goal of increasing DHT and the benefits I feel from higher DHT levels?

I will be very practical in my answer. DHT has a higher binding affinity for the AR than DHN. However, as I have experimented with almost every anabolic money can buy, I can tell you without question they have different mental and physical effects (person-specific I should add). DHT and DHT-derivatives will typically make you ‘harder’ and more aggressive. Nandrolone will typically make you ‘watery’ and less ‘hardened’ looking. The same aggression and sheer ‘manly’ feeling that you get from DHT and DHT-derivatives typically is not there with DHN.

The benefits you briefly refer to from DHT sound subjective (mental). In my experience, I have tried the hypothesis that adding a DHT-derivative to Test and Deca will negate negative side effects from DHN (in this case the potential mental side effects of depression and lethargy that I get). The results turned out to simply be a blunting effect of both the DHT-derivative and nandrolone. It didn’t fully reduce the depression and lethargy from nandrolone, and the DHT derivative was blunted it is overall effect on my body composition and mental well-being. Bear in mind as you read this, I am not referring to steroid abuse or supraphysiological cycling for excessive hypertrophy. I am speaking only in terms ask dosages acceptable and used in TRT (e.g. 150 test, 75 nandrolone, 25 mg Proviron 3 x weekly).

DHN and DHT will compete for the androgen receptor. There will likely be a blunting effect of both wherein neither is able to fully express itself in terms of mental subjective benefits or physical benefits.

If you are that curious then do a small experiment where you add the scrotal cream with your nandrolone, document the result in comparison to your goals. Then, take nandrolone out while keeping the scrotal cream in and document those results in relation to your goal response.

At the end of the day any of us, @Cataceous @Gman86, or myself can post studies about the relative binding affinities of DHT versus DHN, speculate the role of estrogen receptors, androgen receptors, SHBG and the like, hypothesize what creates subjective benefits of DHT or DHN and what would result from their combination, so on and so forth. At the end of the day, there isn’t enough information out there to come up with a sound hypothesis. Just try it, see how it goes. For me, it didn’t do nearly as well combining DHT and DHN as it did just using T and scrotal cream or a DHT derivative with T. For you, you may perceive different subjective results. Try it.

 

[S1W]

Lol no one ever includes me

I won't make that mistake again, lol. Thank you for your excellent response.

I will be very practical in my answer. DHT has a higher binding affinity for the AR than DHN. However, as I have experimented with almost every anabolic money can buy, I can tell you without question they have different mental and physical effects (person-specific I should add). DHT and DHT-derivatives will typically make you ‘harder’ and more aggressive. Nandrolone will typically make you ‘watery’ and less ‘hardened’ looking. The same aggression and sheer ‘manly’ feeling that you get from DHT and DHT-derivatives typically is not there with DHN.

The benefits you briefly refer to from DHT sound subjective (mental). In my experience, I have tried the hypothesis that adding a DHT-derivative to Test and Deca will negate negative side effects from DHN (in this case the potential mental side effects of depression and lethargy that I get). The results turned out to simply be a blunting effect of both the DHT-derivative and nandrolone. It didn’t fully reduce the depression and lethargy from nandrolone, and the DHT derivative was blunted it is overall effect on my body composition and mental well-being. Bear in mind as you read this, I am not referring to steroid abuse or supraphysiological cycling for excessive hypertrophy. I am speaking only in terms ask dosages acceptable and used in TRT (e.g. 150 test, 75 nandrolone, 25 mg Proviron 3 x weekly).

DHN and DHT will compete for the androgen receptor. There will likely be a blunting effect of both wherein neither is able to fully express itself in terms of mental subjective benefits or physical benefits.

If you are that curious then do a small experiment where you add the scrotal cream with your nandrolone, document the result in comparison to your goals. Then, take nandrolone out while keeping the scrotal cream in and document those results in relation to your goal response.

At the end of the day any of us, @Cataceous @Gman86, or myself can post studies about the relative binding affinities of DHT versus DHN, speculate the role of estrogen receptors, androgen receptors, SHBG and the like, hypothesize what creates subjective benefits of DHT or DHN and what would result from their combination, so on and so forth. At the end of the day, there isn’t enough information out there to come up with a sound hypothesis. Just try it, see how it goes. For me, it didn’t do nearly as well combining DHT and DHN as it did just using T and scrotal cream or a DHT derivative with T. For you, you may perceive different subjective results. Try it.