Daily injections-what is the average dose of people that inject daily?
- Thread starter tersec
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- daily injections
13mg/day + 500 IU HCG 2x/week
May i ask why you occasionally go to 20mg?
Vince
Super Moderator
I'm one of the few that likes higher levels of testosterone.
Then why dont stay at 20mg?
You were over range 24 hours later on 8mg of prop?
Vince
Super Moderator
I did inject 20 mg for 5 months. Felt good. Lowered it to 16 mg one month before my latest labs. Feel good at 16 mg. Didn't lose any muscle mass at that level. Felt good mentally. So I really don't know if 16 good, 18 good or 20s good. So right now I'm keeping it in the middle 18 mg daily.
No I intentionally tested peak (4 hours after injection) because I wanted to know whether I was staying in range since I was getting too amped up.
Awhile back I came to conclusion that we're only fooling ourselves by relying solely on trough results, especially where guys are injecting less frequently. In perfect world, we would test both trough and peak, but that could could get $$$
Are you still on low dose daily?
I'll add to the discussion. I have been a TRT struggler (well documented around here). The only thing I have typically tolerated is Natesto with a low dose of hCG. But, I also feel under-treated, so I explore other options. But, I have had trouble with various injection protocols.
I was a patient of Dr. Crisler's (RIP) and I remember using the term "brain fog" to describe how I felt after T Cyp injections. I felt like I was crazy. Fast forward several years and look around here and you will find tons of similar experiences.
In any case, for the past few months, I have been toying with low dose daily injections, and finally found an injection protocol that does not make me feel terrible (no headache, brain fog, etc). I have varied between 10-15mg total of either enanthate or a combo of enanthate with nandrolone (to lower chances of downstream metabolites causing side effects). I am still playing with it to find the right total dose and right ratio.
So, on one hand, this is progress. I finally found a way to inject without feeling terrible. Problem is, I am not sure I feel great either.
I very briefly tried to mirror @Cataceous's enanthate/propionate blend and bailed after a few days. That said, now that I am currently tolerating low dose injections, I have thought about trying it again. The primary motivation for this is to have some daily variation. I also notice that I feel better towards the mid day and evening compared with the morning on this protocol. I wonder if introducing propionate would potentially address this, as onset of action may be earlier in the day? I have also been kicking around cream along with low dose daily injection. Loved cream for about a month. Pretty bad after the first month (like many others). But, some have had good luck on the combo.
Good discussion here.
I was a patient of Dr. Crisler's (RIP) and I remember using the term "brain fog" to describe how I felt after T Cyp injections. I felt like I was crazy. Fast forward several years and look around here and you will find tons of similar experiences.
In any case, for the past few months, I have been toying with low dose daily injections, and finally found an injection protocol that does not make me feel terrible (no headache, brain fog, etc). I have varied between 10-15mg total of either enanthate or a combo of enanthate with nandrolone (to lower chances of downstream metabolites causing side effects). I am still playing with it to find the right total dose and right ratio.
So, on one hand, this is progress. I finally found a way to inject without feeling terrible. Problem is, I am not sure I feel great either.
I very briefly tried to mirror @Cataceous's enanthate/propionate blend and bailed after a few days. That said, now that I am currently tolerating low dose injections, I have thought about trying it again. The primary motivation for this is to have some daily variation. I also notice that I feel better towards the mid day and evening compared with the morning on this protocol. I wonder if introducing propionate would potentially address this, as onset of action may be earlier in the day? I have also been kicking around cream along with low dose daily injection. Loved cream for about a month. Pretty bad after the first month (like many others). But, some have had good luck on the combo.
Good discussion here.
mooseman109
Active Member
For me it was 12mg per day
@Cataceous, you may have seen my comments on this, but I am considering trying this approach again. I am aware of a few guys trying propionate, but do you know of other guys around here having success on the blend approach?
I recall seeing only one detailed followup of this approach, and that involved too many other changes to be informative. I have to reiterate that I think the changes experienced versus steady serum levels will generally be subtle. But I remain hopeful that with this approach some guys will be able to reduce side effects while preserving the benefits of TRT—because less testosterone is needed. For example, use of this protocol has correlated with significantly less water retention, which is something many guys complain about. Unfortunately, for me the water retention was actually a benefit, resulting in better hydration and performance while cycling. On the other hand, I had persistent headaches for much of my time on TRT, and those have dissipated over the course of these dose changes. It could just be a coincidence. But I'd like to see more guys try the ester blend approach. There's little downside risk for those who are already injecting daily.
A data point and question here. For about 7 weeks, I have been doing low dose daily injections with 10-15mg of enanthate or enanthate + nandrolone. I know that one of the bedrock principles of TRT is that things take time. That said, I have been making micro adjustments along the way based on my perception on how I think I am responding. The goal was to gradually titrate until I find something I like and stay on that for a while.
This past week, I have noticed something new. I have been using just testosterone (a few days on an enanthate and propionate blend and one day of just enanthate). I usually inject around 6AM. For four consecutive days, around 6-8PM, I have noticed anxiety, a jittery feeling and maybe a bit of tachycardia (hard to tell since I am on a beta blocker).
Because it happens only in the evening, and at a specific time, I suspect it is related to a metabolite. If I had to choose, I'd say estradiol, but it could be DHT or it could be some other metabolite. It could simply be T levels being too high, but I tend to doubt it because I feel it usually 12 or so hours after injecting, and I would expect levels to have peaked prior to that.
The scrotal cream study has some charts that show metabolites by hour after application. @readalot or @madman, do either of you have any graphs that show hourly fluctuations in E2 or DHT after enanthate injections in your treasure trove of papers? The Xyosted papers have data, but over days and weeks, not hours.
It is an uncomfortable phenomenon and I think it would be useful to identify what causes it. Don't mean to hijack this particular thread. Happy to move it to a side effect thread.
This past week, I have noticed something new. I have been using just testosterone (a few days on an enanthate and propionate blend and one day of just enanthate). I usually inject around 6AM. For four consecutive days, around 6-8PM, I have noticed anxiety, a jittery feeling and maybe a bit of tachycardia (hard to tell since I am on a beta blocker).
Because it happens only in the evening, and at a specific time, I suspect it is related to a metabolite. If I had to choose, I'd say estradiol, but it could be DHT or it could be some other metabolite. It could simply be T levels being too high, but I tend to doubt it because I feel it usually 12 or so hours after injecting, and I would expect levels to have peaked prior to that.
The scrotal cream study has some charts that show metabolites by hour after application. @readalot or @madman, do either of you have any graphs that show hourly fluctuations in E2 or DHT after enanthate injections in your treasure trove of papers? The Xyosted papers have data, but over days and weeks, not hours.
It is an uncomfortable phenomenon and I think it would be useful to identify what causes it. Don't mean to hijack this particular thread. Happy to move it to a side effect thread.
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
How would you describe the headaches you were getting ? Mine are like pressure but not too much pain just annoying and make me feel strange.
Dull ache, more posterior. Never severe, but bad enough that it's a relief to be rid of them.
GreenMachineX
Well-Known Member
I've been using 4mg daily for a few months now, with a 2 week break somewhere in the middle. It's just still too much. The past couple weeks when I've missed a day or 2 of injections, I feel so much more calm and sleep so much better. Today is day 3 skipping my shot. I slept fantastic last night and this morning, my shower felt great and relaxing. Normally, I feel a rush to get everything done so I can get to the next thing, but I just enjoyed it. I don't know why this means yet, but even at this 4mg dose my RBC was 5.88, HGB was 17.7 and HCT was 49.1 a few weeks ago. So, even 4mg daily is enough to stimulate erythrocytosis so a substantial degree. I'll be creating another thread as well.
Edit: I should also mention that the days I've skipped (like last night), had incredible morning wood and better overall fullness/girth when flaccid too during the day. I just don't get it.
Edit: I should also mention that the days I've skipped (like last night), had incredible morning wood and better overall fullness/girth when flaccid too during the day. I just don't get it.
What ester are you using? Anything else (hCG, DHEA, etc)?
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