Can't sleep

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smithers

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Hey Guys,
I have a friend who can't sleep. He's visited the Dr. but its not helping. He's done all except the sleep study, but just wont get around to doing the study. I suspect apnea.
What is working for him is taking a Norco which he agrees is not good for him.
He's tried benedryl, melatonin and non narcotic pills that wont work, but what can work as well as Norco?
Does anyone have any suggestion other than handcuffing him and taking him to the sleep study?
 
Defy Medical TRT clinic doctor
Has he had a complete physical within the past year? A lot of things can lead to insomnia.

If he is a chronic snorer, then perhaps if you made a recording if him snoring it would convince him he needs the sleep study.

A lot of insurance companies now pay for at home sleep studies, so that may be more appealing to him.
 
Is he has been taking Norco (tylenol plus hydrocodone or Vicoden) for a while and stopped it, he may be going through withdrawal that takes a while to resolve.

One of my friends had that problem and nothing worked for him (Ambien, Lunesta, etc). He decided to take low dose clonazepam even though it also causes dependency.
 
Nelson Vergel said:
Is he has been taking Norco (tylenol plus hydrocodone or Vicoden) for a while and stopped it, he may be going through withdrawal that takes a while to resolve.

One of my friends had that problem and nothing worked for him (Ambien, Lunesta, etc). He decided to take low dose clonazepam even though it also causes dependency.
Click to expand...

I have seen that happen, too. Increasing exercise, not right before bed, however, did a world of good for my friend who was in withdrawal.
 
Thanks for all the help, he has only been using it at night. Apparently that stuff is commonly used. He saw the Dr and was given a tranquilizer type med.
I can understand how people get hooked on these types of drugs, I was once given a pill when I had very stiff muscles once. I was only told it was a relaxer. Man, I felt like I just got a great massage and was floating on a cloud totally relaxed. I don't know the name of that pill and I don't want to know.
 
If Norco has been used nightly for longer than 30 days than a dependency has developed which will require a withdrawal period once the Norco is discontinued. Part of the withdrawal symptoms of opioid medications like Norco is insomnia, agitation, anxiety, in addition to physical symptoms of varying degrees (depending on duration and dosage of use):

Your friend first needs awareness of the withdrawal symptoms so that they are not confused with something else and he is prescribed another drug that will lead to dependency (Benzodiazepine, hypnotics, etc). The symptoms can last for 2-12 weeks, again depending on the length of use and dosage. He will get better and make a full recovery. Keep in mind that if there is an underlying reason he was suffering from insomnia prior to the Norco use than this will have to eventually be dealt with, but not until after a recovery from Norco use has been made. During recovery, very little will help him until the body restores what the Norco has depleted. This is why relapse with opioids is so high- he really must get through this without the use of other drugs in order to get better.

Here are some supplements your friend can take to help relieve the symptoms as the body restores balance. Whatever he does, he should not take another Norco or use a GABA agonist during recovery as that will set him back.

Milk of Magnesia- will help with stomach distress at night from WD
Immodium AD- reduces the nighttime diarrhea
Rx-strength Motrin- helps with the nighttime aches during WD
Vistiril- An anti-histamine which helps with two things; opiate withdrawal produces ahistamine response which makes the patient have runny eyes, nose, anditching. Vistiril will manage this alongwith reducing anxiety and assisting in sleep. This medication may be used a few weeks beyond the last opioid dosage.

Suggested Supplements:

Multi-Vitamin
DL-Phenylalanine- Take 1000mg-2000mg daily on empty stomach. Helps restore endorphins and the bodies own "pain blockers"
5-HTP- Take 100mg-200mg before bedtime. Helps restore reward hormones in the brain which lead to relaxation and better mood.
Magnesium- Helps reduce meucle tension and promotes relaxation. Take 200mg-500mg as needed.
B-Complex- Helps to repair the CNS and restore reward hormones
 
Last edited:
Jasen Bruce said:
If Norco has been used nightly for longer than 30 days than a dependency has developed which will require a withdrawal period once the Norco is discontinued. Part of the withdrawal symptoms of opioid medications like Norco is insomnia, agitation, anxiety, in addition to physical symptoms of varying degrees (depending on duration and dosage of use):

Your friend first needs awareness of the withdrawal symptoms so that they are not confused with something else and he is prescribed another drug that will lead to dependency (Benzodiazepine, hypnotics, etc). The symptoms can last for 2-12 weeks, again depending on the length of use and dosage. He will get better and make a full recovery. Keep in mind that if there is an underlying reason he was suffering from insomnia prior to the Norco use than this will have to eventually be dealt with, but not until after a recovery from Norco use has been made. During recovery, very little will help him until the body restores what the Norco has depleted. This is why relapse with opioids is so high- he really must get through this without the use of other drugs in order to get better.

Here are some supplements your friend can take to help relieve the symptoms as the body restores balance. Whatever he does, he should not take another Norco or use a GABA agonist during recovery as that will set him back.

Milk of Magnesia- will help with stomach distress at night from WD
Immodium AD- reduces the nighttime diarrhea
Rx-strength Motrin- helps with the nighttime aches during WD
Vistiril- An anti-histamine which helps with two things; opiate withdrawal produces ahistamine response which makes the patient have runny eyes, nose, anditching. Vistiril will manage this alongwith reducing anxiety and assisting in sleep. This medication may be used a few weeks beyond the last opioid dosage.

Suggested Supplements:

Multi-Vitamin
DL-Phenylalanine- Take 1000mg-2000mg daily on empty stomach. Helps restore endorphins and the bodies own "pain blockers"
5-HTP- Take 100mg-200mg before bedtime. Helps restore reward hormones in the brain which lead to relaxation and better mood.
Magnesium- Helps reduce meucle tension and promotes relaxation. Take 200mg-500mg as needed.
B-Complex- Helps to repair the CNS and restore reward hormones
Click to expand...
Wow thanks. That helps me very much
 
Have you tried the recommended protocol?

I have been suffering from insomnia for close to 5 years now and hardly sleep more than 90mins per cycle. Having got used to it, I just get up and either chill or eat a small meal etc. before returning to the bed for another cycle.

Typically accumulates 3 of such short cycles per night.

Tried all sorts of medications and supplements but none keeps me asleep for more than 3 hours (after triple-dosing some sleep meds).

Would be great if anyone could help!
 
HanOng said:
Have you tried the recommended protocol?

I have been suffering from insomnia for close to 5 years now and hardly sleep more than 90mins per cycle. Having got used to it, I just get up and either chill or eat a small meal etc. before returning to the bed for another cycle.

Typically accumulates 3 of such short cycles per night.

Tried all sorts of medications and supplements but none keeps me asleep for more than 3 hours (after triple-dosing some sleep meds).

Would be great if anyone could help!
Click to expand...

When I worked 3rd shift, I would meditate 20 minutes before bed. It ready did help my sleep, I no longer meditate. But it could be something that may help you.
 
Between2worlds said:
Ero did you use this info to find what TYPE of sleep problem you had? were you able to fix it?
Click to expand...

I have what they call late-onset insomnia. Basically that means that I go right to sleep with no issues when I go to bed, but then (due to a cortisol spike) I wake up at 2-3AM and I am wide awake right up until the time I need to get up and then I am dead tired again. I am pretty sure it started due to stress as it started when both my parents became ill and passed away over the course of 18 months a few years back.

I find relief in taking DHEA right before bed along with Lemon Balm and a small dose of Melatonin time release. I dont sleep perfectly, but I do sleep a lot better now and when I wake up during the night I am usually able to get back to sleep quickly.
 
Hi ERO

Have you got your 24hour cortisol levels checked to confirm this?

I might be facing similar issues and have been managing the night wakings by getting out of bed and having a small meal (less than 300kcal) then falling back asleep (i wonder if its the slight release of insulin or lowering of cortisol). I do that 2 - 3 times a night, depending on the luxury of time I get to rest.

By the way, how much DHEA do you take everyn night? I am on TRT and might not be able to toy with DHEA.
 
HanOng said:
Hi ERO

Have you got your 24hour cortisol levels checked to confirm this?

I might be facing similar issues and have been managing the night wakings by getting out of bed and having a small meal (less than 300kcal) then falling back asleep (i wonder if its the slight release of insulin or lowering of cortisol). I do that 2 - 3 times a night, depending on the luxury of time I get to rest.

By the way, how much DHEA do you take everyn night? I am on TRT and might not be able to toy with DHEA.
Click to expand...

Yes I have. My cortisol is or was at the bottom of the normal range at 8:00am, mid-day, and early evening. Then at midnight it is super high - well above the normal range.

Many if not most of us on TRT take DHEA or have taken it at some point, but the amount varies person to person. I take 25mg right before bed.
 
Massage helped me out.

smithers said:
Hey Guys,
I have a friend who can't sleep. He's visited the Dr. but its not helping. He's done all except the sleep study, but just wont get around to doing the study. I suspect apnea.
What is working for him is taking a Norco which he agrees is not good for him.
He's tried benedryl, melatonin and non narcotic pills that wont work, but what can work as well as Norco?
Does anyone have any suggestion other than handcuffing him and taking him to the sleep study?
Click to expand...

Sure. Believe you me, your friend isn't the only one in that. I've been there. At some point I even wished death could take me... Thanks to a friend, I learnt of massagers that could miraculously eradicate the problem. Sounds weird, right? Okay, you may want to have your friend try relaxish.com/best-portable-massage-table/moments before retiring to bed.
Thank me later.

Cheers.
 
Hi Karen

I have been facing the same sleep problems for the past 5 years and had been through all sorts of sleep studies and rotate my sleep medications, benzos etc.

I also have a massage chair at home and it relaxes me but does not solve my sleep issue.
 
Been down this road of insomnia as well. Tried a number of things. Sublingual pregnenolone at bedtime is the only thing that worked. And, it worked the first day. Now using 25mg am and pm.
 
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