Can a single dose of .25mg Arimidex crash my E2?

[FunkOdyssey]

I know this might sound crazy, but there’s no way that single dose would crash my E2 right?

No, not on hCG. You are less likely to crash E2 on high dose hCG than you are on TRT, because AIs are less able to prevent aromatization inside the testicles.

About DIM, the anti-androgenic properties detailed above are enough for me to never touch it. Calcium D-Glucarate and maybe zinc are the directions I would go for OTC estrogen control.

 

[Seagal]

Those are the actual pharmacokinetics of the drug. And yes, you could crash your estrogen down to 6. At one-point years ago when I was taking Arimidex daily, my E2 labs showed a level of 6 at one point. That prompted me to lower the dose and dosing schedule. I stopped using AI's a long time ago. I now take DIM to balance my estrogens.

Which dose of DIM has what effect on your E2?

 

[JCUSN]

No, not on hCG. You are less likely to crash E2 on high dose hCG than you are on TRT, because AIs are less able to prevent aromatization inside the testicles.

About DIM, the anti-androgenic properties detailed above are enough for me to never touch it. Calcium D-Glucarate and maybe zinc are the directions I would go for OTC estrogen control.

Ah...see THIS is what I was looking for and hoping to understand.

So with HCG, even taking an AI like arimidex still likely won't cause E2 crash, because with HCG atomization is occurring in the testicle itself. Is that correct?

So will any reasonable amount of AI ever bring down my E2 while I'm on high-ish (1000iu 3x weekly) doses of HCG, or am I just chasing something that can't be caught?

 

[BadassBlues]

I had a bottle of DIM long time but never used it. Yesterday popped 100mg. What dose you on @BadassBlues ? How long u've been on? Also no hair shedding as I've read some folks get that. Im not on TRT but interested in its effects.

I had a bottle of DIM long time but never used it. Yesterday popped 100mg. What dose you on @BadassBlues ? How long u've been on? Also no hair shedding as I've read some folks get that. Im not on TRT but interested in its eff

I take 200 mgs. I started a few years ago.

 

[JCUSN]

No, not on hCG. You are less likely to crash E2 on high dose hCG than you are on TRT, because AIs are less able to prevent aromatization inside the testicles.

About DIM, the anti-androgenic properties detailed above are enough for me to never touch it. Calcium D-Glucarate and maybe zinc are the directions I would go for OTC estrogen control.

Can you explain your reluctance to use DIM a bit more here please? Anti-androgenic? What's the concern?

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Can you explain your reluctance to use DIM a bit more here please? Anti-androgenic? What's the concern?

I'm just pasting badassblue's post here. This is what you want to do if you're trying to transition to female or treat active prostate cancer. It might be debatable how real these effects are in practice but I don't want to touch anti-androgens with a ten foot pole after my accutane experience.

It has been shown in in vitro[29],[31]-[33] and in vivo studies[26],[57] that DIM has an anti-androgen effect which downregulates AR and PSA. In androgen-dependent LNCaP cells, DIM suppresses cell proliferation, inhibits DHT stimulation of DNA synthesis and endogenous PSA transcription and suppresses androgen-induced AR translocation into the nucleus[81]. Similar effects of DIM were observed in PC-3 cells only when these cells were co-transfected with a wild-type androgen receptor expression plasmid[82].

DIM results in cell cycle arrest in androgen-sensitive LNCaP cells and androgen-insensitive C4-2B cells not only by affecting cell cycle regulatory molecules including cdks and their inhibitors but also by downregulating AR[31]. In the same cell lines, DIM was found to promote cell cycle arrest and cause apoptosis that may be associated with effects on Akt and AR signaling pathways by affecting Akt/FOXO3a/GSK-3β/β-catenin signaling[46]. In a separate study, the same research group found that B-DIM's anti-androgenic effects were associated with inhibition of AR phosphorylation, AR expressions and AR nuclear translocation, leading to the down-regulation of AR target genes[32]. The anti-androgen effect from DIM is not associated with prostate cancer cell's androgen status[29]. The results of structural modeling studies showed that DIM is remarkably similar in conformational geometry and surface charge distribution to an established synthetic AR antagonist[81]. These observations provide rationales for DIM in treating hormone-sensitive, but more importantly hormone-refractory prostate cancer by using DIM alone or combining with other therapeutics[3

 

[JCUSN]

I'm just pasting badassblue's post here. This is what you want to do if you're trying to transition to female or treat active prostate cancer. It might be debatable how real these effects are in practice but I don't want to touch anti-androgens with a ten foot pole after my accutane experience.

It has been shown in in vitro[29],[31]-[33] and in vivo studies[26],[57] that DIM has an anti-androgen effect which downregulates AR and PSA. In androgen-dependent LNCaP cells, DIM suppresses cell proliferation, inhibits DHT stimulation of DNA synthesis and endogenous PSA transcription and suppresses androgen-induced AR translocation into the nucleus[81]. Similar effects of DIM were observed in PC-3 cells only when these cells were co-transfected with a wild-type androgen receptor expression plasmid[82].

DIM results in cell cycle arrest in androgen-sensitive LNCaP cells and androgen-insensitive C4-2B cells not only by affecting cell cycle regulatory molecules including cdks and their inhibitors but also by downregulating AR[31]. In the same cell lines, DIM was found to promote cell cycle arrest and cause apoptosis that may be associated with effects on Akt and AR signaling pathways by affecting Akt/FOXO3a/GSK-3β/β-catenin signaling[46]. In a separate study, the same research group found that B-DIM's anti-androgenic effects were associated with inhibition of AR phosphorylation, AR expressions and AR nuclear translocation, leading to the down-regulation of AR target genes[32]. The anti-androgen effect from DIM is not associated with prostate cancer cell's androgen status[29]. The results of structural modeling studies showed that DIM is remarkably similar in conformational geometry and surface charge distribution to an established synthetic AR antagonist[81]. These observations provide rationales for DIM in treating hormone-sensitive, but more importantly hormone-refractory prostate cancer by using DIM alone or combining with other therapeutics[3

What effects would be you be so concerned about with DIM?

 

[FunkOdyssey]

What effects would be you be so concerned about with DIM?

Hypogonadal symptoms: loss of libido, poor mood, lack of energy / drive, loss of muscle and strength, etc

 

[BadassBlues]

There are varying thoughts on DIM, I was hesitant to try it myself as I had read so many differing opinions. After using it however, I can say my personal experience has been positive. I have had zero negative symptoms. My PSA labs look great, E2 labs look great, and I like that it balances the unwanted estrogens.

Like everything else, do your research, decide to try it or not. If it works for you, great. If not, discontinue it.

 

[Seagal]

Hey @JCUSN, by now you should be able to feel the arimidex in case your E2 was too high.
Any change? How do you feel?

 

[JCUSN]

Hey @JCUSN, by now you should be able to feel the arimidex in case your E2 was too high.
Any change? How do you feel?

Actually I felt no real change at all.
Also, I just changed my HCG dosing from 1000iu 3x/week to 425iu DAILY. So far, I'm feeling like this smaller, but more frequent dose is causing less feelings of E2 peaking.

 

[Seagal]

Actually I felt no real change at all.
Also, I just changed my HCG dosing from 1000iu 3x/week to 425iu DAILY. So far, I'm feeling like this smaller, but more frequent dose is causing less feelings of E2 peaking.

For HCG monotherapy you could also start with a lower dose and check your response to it. For fertility it's better to include FSH.

 

[JCUSN]

For HCG monotherapy you could also start with a lower dose and check your response to it. For fertility it's better to include FSH.

Most of the fertility protocols with HCG that I've seen have included even larger doses of HCG than I'm doing. Some of them were as high as 3000-5000iu EOD! Crazy stuff haha.

Regarding FSH...I will add HMG later on if the HCG doesn't seem to do the trick on it's own.

I'm considering also adding enclomiphene, but I've read that it's not necessary while on HCG. Also...I can't seem to find anywhere to buy enclomiphene that is actually reputable and trustworthy.