Beard growth/face changes and TRT protocol - just me?

[mr.craig.smith]

Hey gents! I have what may be considered a hair-brained question (no pun intended). Has anyone noticed a difference in facial hair/body hair growth rate - and/or facial structure differences - depending on their injection frequency?

I have been adhering to a protocol very similar to the moderator Vince's since restarting therapy last year (daily injections of 16mg test cyp + HCG). All things considered, I am feeling great, but wanted to see if anyone else has ever noticed any changes in the following based on the route of drug administration (subQ vs IM), as well as dosing frequency (every day vs more infrequent):
- beard/body hair growth
- facial "look" (e.g. more masculine jaw line, puffiness, etc.)

My original protocol was: 16mg test cyp daily IM or subQ + 500iu HCG ever 3rd day

I had two follow up labs where my total T was over 1100 and my free T was 252; I was experiencing some bloating/reduced EQ, so I modified protocol to:

Current protocol: 16mg test cyp daily subQ + 150iu daily

My thought process - try to even out the spikes and recreate more of a diurnal pattern with a smoother absorption via subQ and smaller daily doses of HCG, while still having the same weekly overall HCG dose (somewhat based on Dr. Robert Steven's and Dr. Crisler's protocols).

Overall, I feel pretty darn good. However, I noticed my face looks "less masculine/thinner" with the subQ route of admin, and my beard is growing much slower since switching to subQ and reducing the HCG from 500iu every 3rd day to 150iu every day.
Mentally, I feel super dialed in/optimal with IM test injections, but I tend to have poorer EQ and more aromatization. SubQ, I look much drier, vascular, and it's a much more subtle ride, with the added bonus of not putting little holes in my delts/ventroglutes/etc. on a daily basis.

Curious if anyone has ever experienced anything weird like that from making a similar adjustment to their regimen? I am planning on sticking with subQ injections for 12 weeks and retesting with the knowledge that I can go back to shallow IM any time if I no longer feel as good/optimal after more time doing subQ.

 

[Systemlord]

Perhaps you’re overdosed on IM. Try lowering your dose if you go back to IM.

 

[mr.craig.smith]

Copy. One of the things I've been interested in trying to find out is if there is an optimal ratio of testosterone to its metabolites (DHT & estradiol), and if some guys need more time between injections to allow for that process to take place to get the full benefits. Do you have any thoughts on this? Or is it more of a fools errand trying to chase ratios and just titrate based on symptoms?

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

Copy. One of the things I've been interested in trying to find out is if there is an optimal ratio of testosterone to its metabolites (DHT & estradiol), and if some guys need more time between injections to allow for that process to take place to get the full benefits. Do you have any thoughts on this? Or is it more of a fools errand trying to chase ratios and just titrate based on symptoms?

I often wonder this too. Sometimes when my test goes down by skipping a dose EQ goes way up. But as long as I use some cialas or viagra EQ is great! Sometimes when we solve one problem we create more... lol I had great EQ before TRT

 

[Systemlord]

Or is it more of a fools errand trying to chase ratios and just titrate based on symptoms?

I didn’t notice a difference in my ratios of other hormones at midpoint and peak on injections versus orals. The only thing that changed was the half-life and the large fluctuation in hormone levels.

The medium half-life injections can cause overstimulation because level stay elevated longer on injection versus, gels, creams and orals.

I’ll say is the overstimulation causing the side effects and or the near static hormone level.

 

[Seagal]

Hey gents! I have what may be considered a hair-brained question (no pun intended). Has anyone noticed a difference in facial hair/body hair growth rate - and/or facial structure differences - depending on their injection frequency?

I have been adhering to a protocol very similar to the moderator Vince's since restarting therapy last year (daily injections of 16mg test cyp + HCG). All things considered, I am feeling great, but wanted to see if anyone else has ever noticed any changes in the following based on the route of drug administration (subQ vs IM), as well as dosing frequency (every day vs more infrequent):
- beard/body hair growth
- facial "look" (e.g. more masculine jaw line, puffiness, etc.)

My original protocol was: 16mg test cyp daily IM or subQ + 500iu HCG ever 3rd day

I had two follow up labs where my total T was over 1100 and my free T was 252; I was experiencing some bloating/reduced EQ, so I modified protocol to:

Current protocol: 16mg test cyp daily subQ + 150iu daily

My thought process - try to even out the spikes and recreate more of a diurnal pattern with a smoother absorption via subQ and smaller daily doses of HCG, while still having the same weekly overall HCG dose (somewhat based on Dr. Robert Steven's and Dr. Crisler's protocols).

Overall, I feel pretty darn good. However, I noticed my face looks "less masculine/thinner" with the subQ route of admin, and my beard is growing much slower since switching to subQ and reducing the HCG from 500iu every 3rd day to 150iu every day.
Mentally, I feel super dialed in/optimal with IM test injections, but I tend to have poorer EQ and more aromatization. SubQ, I look much drier, vascular, and it's a much more subtle ride, with the added bonus of not putting little holes in my delts/ventroglutes/etc. on a daily basis.

Curious if anyone has ever experienced anything weird like that from making a similar adjustment to their regimen? I am planning on sticking with subQ injections for 12 weeks and retesting with the knowledge that I can go back to shallow IM any time if I no longer feel as good/optimal after more time doing subQ.

Maybe the relevant difference is the level of estrogens. You probably didn't test it on both protocols?

 

[FunkOdyssey]

my beard is growing much slower since switching to subQ and reducing the HCG from 500iu every 3rd day to 150iu every day.
Mentally, I feel super dialed in/optimal with IM test injections, but I tend to have poorer EQ and more aromatization. SubQ, I look much drier, vascular, and it's a much more subtle ride, with the added bonus of not putting little holes in my delts/ventroglutes/etc. on a daily basis.

I would guess that your levels of everything, T, DHT, and E2 are lower, certainly from the reduced/ more frequent hCG, possibly from the switch from IM to subq, and possibly due to both. Your E2 before was probably too high for good EQ, and now it is not.

I would run your labs, then leave the hCG alone at the lower daily dose or even reduce dose further (100iu) while switching back to IM for the test.

 

[mr.craig.smith]

Thank you everyone! This is great feedback.

@FunkOdyssey - I am going to switch back to IM (or at least rotate it in) starting tomorrow. I seem to be one of the guys that "feels" better mentally with IM injections. My mood fell off a cliff over the past 24 hours, and I'm not feeling the same dopaminergic rise I do when I inject shallow IM. I will re-run labs and possible lower testosterone and HCG doses, especially if I go back to IM full time.

@Seagal - I tested E2 on my initial labs, but no on the subsequent follow up. I just went to Any Lab Test Now and paid for the total & free T (which came along with SHBG) just to get rough idea where things were sitting. My E2 on 2.17.25 was 33.7 pg/ML, and my total T at the time was 958 (free wasn't measured at the time).

@Fernando Almaguer - it's frustrating at times that HRT isn't a panacea.. but it is pretty close! Just trying to get as close to "optimal" as we can!

@Systemlord - based on the overstimulation hypothesis, would you consider lowering doses and sticking with the daily protocol? Or trying to force more infrequent doses with the longer acting esters (e.g. EOD, E3D)? I have experimented with test propionate before and it didn't go super well (racing heart rate, high BP).

 

[Systemlord]

@Systemlord - based on the overstimulation hypothesis, would you consider lowering doses and sticking with the daily protocol?

If you're experiencing overstimulation due to the half0life of injections, lowering the dose won't matter. Changing the delivery method/half-life is the only option.