Back on TRT: Same old thing

[sh1973]

Well said Charlie. There is no turning back time

 

[fifty]

I think TRT guidelines is one thing the medical community has right. If your levels are ~200 or lower then TRT will probably help a lot. If they're naturally 500+ then good luck.

Being generally a few months behind @BigBamBoo, I'm on my way off trt. Since stopping test cyp 2 weeks ago, avg morning BP has dropped 10pts, resting HR has dropped 10bpm. Anxiety is down. Sleep is much better (no 3am wakeups). We'll see how long this lasts

 

[Charliebizz]

I think TRT guidelines is one thing the medical community has right. If your levels are ~200 or lower then TRT will probably help a lot. If they're naturally 500+ then good luck.

Being generally a few months behind @BigBamBoo, I'm on my way off trt. Since stopping test cyp 2 weeks ago, avg morning BP has dropped 10pts, resting HR has dropped 10bpm. Anxiety is down. Sleep is much better (no 3am wakeups). We'll see how long this lasts

Hey My levels vary from 240-380 at 37 years old and trt has never really had positives for me. Maybe slightly better recovery from work outs. And some spontaneous erections. But even on a super low dose my bp goes up I gain tons of water weight. I get ringing in ears very aware of my pulse. Anxiety goes up. I start to lose interest in hobbies and get borderline depressed.

 

[Charliebizz]

I think TRT guidelines is one thing the medical community has right. If your levels are ~200 or lower then TRT will probably help a lot. If they're naturally 500+ then good luck.

Being generally a few months behind @BigBamBoo, I'm on my way off trt. Since stopping test cyp 2 weeks ago, avg morning BP has dropped 10pts, resting HR has dropped 10bpm. Anxiety is down. Sleep is much better (no 3am wakeups). We'll see how long this lasts

Fifty be prepared for a little dip along the way but stay strong. When I went off cold turkey I was good for a few weeks then I had a little rough patch. I questioned going off but just kept reminding myself how bad I was on trt. It didn’t last too long and wasn’t any thing I couldn’t deal with. And I’m ok now. I never had the real crash like some guys get thank god.

 

[BigBamBoo]

Well what kind of work outs are you doing on trt at 50 years old. The problem I see on these forums is a lot of guys are chasing being able to look and feel like a man in his 20s. We are fighting against nature. Your body slows down in our 50s your work capacity becomes lower. It’s a fact of life. Look at elite athletes. Look how small the window for peak performance is.

And on the other side of the coin. I’m a union operating engineer. In a big ego mans business. My t levels are low even for a 37 year old. Yet I’m still very alpha male at work and even with my friends. Not in an arrogant type of way. I’m very confident I get along with almost everyone. All the traits of an alleged “high t” male. Thick beard deep voice 6ft 220. So how much do t levels really affect all the shit that is talked about on these forums.

I know for me I’m way better off without trt. Sure I have complaints about the way I feel but I also have to look at my life style. With my job I only sleep 5-6 hours a night. Do not have optimal diet. Get the shit beat out of me on my machines day in and day out still play hockey competitively 1-2 times a week. And chase my one year old around.

I’m not saying that trt can’t work for people. And if you are ok with the risk vs reward of trying to keep yourself “feeling” like a 20 year old then more power to you. But let’s be realistic the human body is the most complex organism on earth and manipulating one small hormone isn’t the answer for the big picture. I see far too many guys on here convincing themselves that it is just to look good. And who is to say that’s even optimal. I’ll tell you what the best laborers in my field of work 9 times out of 10 are guys you would consider chubby and out of shape. Besides the natural genetic lean guys.

My wife is in the OE3 Union and is an operator, so know the world you are in. Stay safe.

As for my workouts, I lift 4 days week. I bench, deadlift, and squat about the same as I did in my 30’s.

Most folks think I am in my late 30’s based on my physical appearance.

I get what you are saying and agree to some extent.

But the argument could be made for any modern medical treatment.
No one “needs” glasses, or cosmetic surgery, or even treatment for much more serious ailments.
Based on your opinion, if the body is aging and crapping out, then that is just age and should be accepted, right?

I am not chasing youth. But I see 95% of men my age who look like shit....sagging skin/muscles, big beer bellies, out of shape, etc.
I am not going out that way. Call me vain...I am good with that.

I am giving this one last try. If it does not work, then I will stop again. No big deal.

Happy 4th to all.

 

[Charliebizz]

My wife is in the OE3 Union and is an operator, so know the world you are in. Stay safe.

As for my workouts, I lift 4 days week. I bench, deadlift, and squat about the same as I did in my 30’s.

Most folks think I am in my late 30’s based on my physical appearance.

I get what you are saying and agree to some extent.

But the argument could be made for any modern medical treatment.
No one “needs” glasses, or cosmetic surgery, or even treatment for much more serious ailments.
Based on your opinion, if the body is aging and crapping out, then that is just age and should be accepted, right?

I am not chasing youth. But I see 95% of men my age who look like shit....sagging skin/muscles, big beer bellies, out of shape, etc.
I am not going out that way. Call me vain...I am good with that.

I am giving this one last try. If it does not work, then I will stop again. No big deal.

Happy 4th to all.

100% agree with you. But wearing glasses is a lot more benign then messing with hormones. And a lot of us just do not live right and that’s why are hormones are out of wack.

 

[Tman]

So...as some of you may remember I stopped TRT awhile ago. And was feeling really good....for awhile.

But after a bit, I was not having good workouts, my energy was less, I was having more pronounced mood swings, etc.

I decided to reach back out to Defy and see what they thought. We spoke about what I was experiencing and went over my labs, etc.
And I/we decided to give it another go.

So here I am. Three months into restarting TRT and fresh labs.

For those who do not remember or are new to my story, I have had pretty high SHBG. Usually 70-75 is where it runs.
So my latest blood work shows a much lower SHBG number. Good I guess?

The issues...as before....are back. I have never had ED. And when not on TRT can have sex twice a day and when I get off it is with great force and volume.
So now I am back to having rock hard erections, but can rarely finish. Even when I am taking care of myself, I can pound away for hours...ok...like 30-45 min and never get off. And when I do, my volume is pretty much a small drop or two and very little force.
And my orgasm only last for 10-15 sec. So very unfulfilling for me.

I am doing EOD injections of T with only a small amount of HCG. I have always need a pretty healthy protocol to get my numbers up.
My prior TRT dose was 210mg a week and was on MWF and ended on EOD injections.
Right now on my EOD schedule, I am at 200mg a week. And again...if you look at my labs below that puts me just at the top of range.
NO AI.

So for most folks I guess my E2 might be high, but I have no symptoms. And generally, my high SHBG pretty much kept it in check. But now that it is lower, not sure?

We tested prolactin this time but I have no idea what "optimal" levels should be. Guess I will find out with my consult.

Well, there it is. Not sure what to do now.

When my estrogen is too high I can last forever in the bedroom. Even though your estradiol number isn't extremely high, you could consider taking a small dose of AI... .05
If it helps you know your estradiol is a little high.

 

[fifty]

I don’t know why they keep your dose so high despite your lack of satisfaction. You can often predict the doctor or nurse based off the prescribed protocol...

30mg eod is what I would have restarted you at. Or even lower... possibility plus cream to nuts.

 

[BigBamBoo]

When my estrogen is too high I can last forever in the bedroom. Even though your estradiol number isn't extremely high, you could consider taking a small dose of AI... .05
If it helps you know your estradiol is a little high.

I do not tolerate AI at all. Even extremely small dose (3 x .125 mg in a 1 1/2 week period) caused me to have the first and only panic attack I have every had in my life.

 

[BigBamBoo]

I don’t know why they keep your dose so high despite your lack of satisfaction. You can often predict the doctor or nurse based off the prescribed protocol...

30mg eod is what I would have restarted you at. Or even lower... possibility plus cream to nuts.

I guess to get my numbers up where “everyone” says that is where they should be to feel best.

If you look at my labs, my FT and TT are just at or a little over high (current) lab ranges. And if we go back a few years, they would be under high range.

Physically I feel good. Mentally and the sexual side, not so much.

I have an appointment with a Defy Dr this week so we will see what he says.

As for dream on the balls....I am not really interested in adding that at this time.

 

[fifty]

I got you. All I’m saying is that it seems like they have you on the “how many different ways can we take 190mg of test cyp per week?” plan.

 

[BigBamBoo]

Last year we did try lowering to 150mg a week (MWF injections) and my FT ended up mid range and my TT was in the lower 800’s.

I felt pretty crappy in all aspects, so we bumped the dose back up.

So again, physically I feel pretty good. Workouts are intense, recovery is good, joints feel better, etc.

But the “trade off” is that emotionally I am a bid flat and while I still have rock hard hard ons, it is hard to get off. And when I do, it is very fast and not fulfilling.

My feeling is my body likes it’s own hormones. But it just is not making enough due to age.

 

[StepbyStep]

Hey BigBamBoo,

I'm sorry to hear that the restart did not work out for you, and you're back to struggling with the emotional symptoms of TRT.

I got back into TRT as well, but this time with the cream. I've only been back on for about 5 weeks now, but I feel great. I feel normal physically and emotionally for the first time ever on TRT with normal emotions. Literally the only negative side effect for me on the creams is smaller testicles and less ejaculate.

 

[Gman86]

Hey BigBamBoo,

I'm sorry to hear that the restart did not work out for you, and you're back to struggling with the emotional symptoms of TRT.

I got back into TRT as well, but this time with the cream. I've only been back on for about 5 weeks now, but I feel great. I feel normal physically and emotionally for the first time ever on TRT with normal emotions. Literally the only negative side effect for me on the creams is smaller testicles and less ejaculate.

Where are you applying the cream? Glad it’s working so well for you. Seems like there’s really something to the creams. A lot of guys seem to have great success with them without needing to mess with ai’s. Only thing I’m afraid of with them is possible hair loss due to very high DHT. But wonder if that can be avoided by just applying the cream to other places than the testicles. Just not sure if a lot of the success is due to the transscrotal application.

 

[StepbyStep]

Where are you applying the cream? Glad it’s working so well for you. Seems like there’s really something to the creams. A lot of guys seem to have great success with them without needing to mess with ai’s. Only thing I’m afraid of with them is possible hair loss due to very high DHT. But wonder if that can be avoided by just applying the cream to other places than the testicles. Just not sure if a lot of the success is due to the transscrotal application.

I'm doing one click on my scrotum, and two clicks on my sides. I'm not sure where the best plan to apply it is, but it seems to be working. No labs yet. I don't think that I'm prone to balding, so no issues my hair is as thick as ever. Libido is very good on the cream too, and so far orgasms and sensitivity have not changed a bit.

 

[sh1973]

Creams and gels work very well for some some guys. I started on androgel 1.62 and liked it until insurance would non longer pay. I used it for 1.5 years and felt well consistently.

 

[Gman86]

I'm doing one click on my scrotum, and two clicks on my sides. I'm not sure where the best plan to apply it is, but it seems to be working. No labs yet. I don't think that I'm prone to balding, so no issues my hair is as thick as ever. Libido is very good on the cream too, and so far orgasms and sensitivity have not changed a bit.

When you say you apply 2 clicks on your side, where exactly do you mean? And ya I haven’t experienced any balding while on testosterone injections, so I’m optimistic that creams wouldn’t effect me negatively in that department.

 

[Gman86]

Creams and gels work very well for some some guys. I started on androgel 1.62 and liked it until insurance would non longer pay. I used it for 1.5 years and felt well consistently.

Where were you applying the androgel?

 

[sh1973]

I applied on my shoulders and sometimes my sides or inner thighs. I normally get up around 5:00am so it wasn’t a problem if I got hot and sweated later in the day. The price has came down now and insurance covers it. Might try it again some day.

 

[jmzwy]

How long were you previously on trt before you stopped? I ask because when I started I had shbg readings consistently at 65+. And that was over a period of 2 years and 3 readings before I pulled the trigger and started therapy. Now, almost a year in, it has steadily come down over the course..... from 67, to 58, to 43, and 39 just a month ago. And I am doing nothing directly to control it..... no boron, no extra zinc, etc. I would say give it time and do your best to incorporate an overall healthy lifestyle. If you are also on hcg, that may be the issuse with inability to finish. I have a very love/hate relationship with hcg - can tolerate it for about a month before it rears its ugly head even at low doses (water retention, moon face, insensitivity in the important areas, anger, etc).