At what Free T level do you feel optimal?

[Systemlord]

Hmm, my libido was def there and was even starting to get morning wood with my TT being 450 and FT barely above range low when I increased food, healthy fats, decreased training days and increased sleep. Now 10 days ago I started my own TRT journey and no more morning wood and libido slightly down considering everything else the same.

I had the same thing happen to me when I started supplementing vitamin D, at the beginning I wasn't taking nearly enough (37 pg/dL) and only experienced almost complete symptoms resolution but only for a short time.

After a while the symptoms returned and are still present in the mornings and towards the end of the day but making improvements every day.

 

[Cataceous]

From reading a lot of posts on here , you seem to lab rat a lot of substances on yourself, have you ever just tried T alone and road out certain dosages for 8-10 weeks each dosage change? possible you will do better with just a higher free T range.

I have spent substantial time—years—on higher doses, the equivalent of 58-65 mg TC/week. This was after an introductory 6 weeks on close to 100 mg, with TT > 1,200 ng/dL. The somewhat lower doses included hCG, and results were pretty decent initially—certainly better than hypogonadism. But there was degradation over time, in both libido and sexual function. That's what drove a lot of my subsequent experimentation.

In the end the higher doses were not better—they were mostly worse. However, it's not really an apples-to-apples comparison given the complexity of my current protocol. This protocol provides the testosterone content of only 44 mg TC per week, but daily injections of a propionate/enanthate blend put peak testosterone close to 700 ng/dL, a little above average even for young men, and only ~100 ng/dL lower than the nearly constant levels I had on the higher doses. I also use peptides and enclomiphene to ameliorate some of the hormonal disruption caused by TRT. I think these latter items are the special sauce that really makes things work. In my experience the higher doses of testosterone improved athleticism and caused unwanted side effects; that's about it. This is in line with the notion that many important parameters, such as erectile function, need only a modest minimum level of testosterone to normalize. Exceeding this may not result in further improvements, and at some point other problems are introduced.

Or just healthy without disease. ...

Evidence?

 

[Systemlord]

Normal free T is 9-15, anything above that is a full blown steroid cycle and can be dangerous

My calculated Free T ranges are 7.0-36.5 ng/dL and I'm at 28 ng/dL. I'm not on a steroid cycle.

 

[Systemlord]

the guy is just looking for a poll on where most TRT users keep their free T where they feel their best.

Thanks for clearing that up, by optimal I mean feeling your best, similar to when you were in your prime.

 

[tareload]

The notion that a man's testosterone decreases due to aging needs to die, testosterone doesn't decline due to age alone.

So sayeth the Systemlord. You sure about that?

Reference Intervals for Free Testosterone in Adult Men Measured Using a Standardized Equilibrium Dialysis Procedure

Again you heard it here first only at Nelson's ExcelMale! @Nelson Vergel Was going to drop this bomb a few days ago but you let down the curtains early LOL! https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/andr.13310 Reference Intervals for Free Testosterone in Adult Men Measured Using a...

www.excelmale.com

calculated Free T ranges are 7.0-36.5 ng/dL and I'm at 28 ng/dL. I'm not on a steroid cycle.

Need to state your calculation method with the numbers provided.

 

[tareload]

when you were in your prime.

5-8 ng/dl calculated using Vermeulen based on data I have at 30 years old.

TT: 380-420 ng/dl
SHBG: 45-55 nmol/l

 

[Systemlord]

Evidence?

This may not the evidence that you can cross-examine but a very reputable doctor is saying T doesn't decline due to aging a alone.

 

[Systemlord]

5-8 ng/dl calculated using Vermeulen based on data I have at 30 years old.

TT: 380-420 ng/dl
SHBG: 45-55 nmol/l

My parents always told me we are all born equal, what a load of crap.

 

[tareload]

My parents always told me we are all born equal, what a load of crap.

You left out the second part...

we are all equal...but some are more equal than others.

 

[tareload]

This may not the evidence that you can cross-examine but a very reputable doctor is saying T doesn't decline due to aging a alone.

18:45 and on....

TT vs fT vs age.

 

[Vince]

I got totally tired of donating blood so it's important for me to keep my HCT "Good". As long as my HCT is good, I'll take my free testosterone as high as I can.

 

[tareload]

I got totally tired of donating blood so it's important for me to keep my HCT "Good". As long as my HCT is good, I'll take my free testosterone as high as I can.

For some that means stopping at 15 ng/dl Free T via cfTv or ED.

....Optimization.

The juggling of multiple functions of testosterone dose to achieve some suitable balance of reward (positive effect) vs risk (negative side effect).

Drug titration - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

https://www.fda.gov/media/71279/download

 

[tareload]

I have spent substantial time—years—on higher doses, the equivalent of 58-65 mg TC/week. This was after an introductory 6 weeks on close to 100 mg, with TT > 1,200 ng/dL. The somewhat lower doses included hCG, and results were pretty decent initially—certainly better than hypogonadism. But there was degradation over time, in both libido and sexual function. That's what drove a lot of my subsequent experimentation.

In the end the higher doses were not better—they were mostly worse. However, it's not really an apples-to-apples comparison given the complexity of my current protocol. This protocol provides the testosterone content of only 44 mg TC per week, but daily injections of a propionate/enanthate blend put peak testosterone close to 700 ng/dL, a little above average even for young men, and only ~100 ng/dL lower than the nearly constant levels I had on the higher doses. I also use peptides and enclomiphene to ameliorate some of the hormonal disruption caused by TRT. I think these latter items are the special sauce that really makes things work. In my experience the higher doses of testosterone improved athleticism and caused unwanted side effects; that's about it. This is in line with the notion that many important parameters, such as erectile function, need only a modest minimum level of testosterone to normalize. Exceeding this may not result in further improvements, and at some point other problems are introduced.


Evidence?

Animated GIF - Find & Share on GIPHY

Discover & share this Animated GIF with everyone you know. GIPHY is how you search, share, discover, and create GIFs.

giphy.com

 

[Coconutz]

Normal free T is 9-15, anything above that is a full blown steroid cycle and can be dangerous

Says who? You do realize insurance companies set the numbers, right??

 

[Systemlord]

You do realize insurance companies set the numbers, right??

A lot of people don't know that insurance companies have way too much influence in our healthcare system.

 

[tareload]

Says who? You do realize insurance companies set the numbers, right??

Wow this thread about to get a whole lot better. Welcome back!

 

[Coconutz]

Wow this thread about to get a whole lot better. Welcome back!

Are you disagreeing that the insurance companies DONT set the ranges?? Or are you still upset you masturbate and I dont? I forgot all about that weeks ago. You obviously didn't. Lol

 

[Hyrulewarrior1978]

Are you disagreeing that the insurance companies DONT set the ranges?? Or are you still upset you masturbate and I dont? I forgot all about that weeks ago. You obviously didn't. Lol

This just made me want to look at the masterbation frequency thread that I had been previously ignoring. So much fun.

 

[Hyrulewarrior1978]

I would like to add one thing to this discussion and that is that when men are young all parts of the system are young not just their hpta. Their brains are young their bodies young their mitochondria all young. So maybe some men might need free t in the higher range to compensate for the other parts of the system that have aged (loss of dopamine, receptor changes, etc). This of course is fixing one problem while causing another. Actually optimal testosterone is that which your body produces naturally at any age, barring any pituitary or genetic disorder.

 

[tareload]

Are you disagreeing that the insurance companies DONT set the ranges??

You do realize insurance companies set the numbers, right??

The ranges or the numbers? Be specific and consistent with your claim. They do not set the ranges. They do set some numbers.

Or are you still upset you masturbate and I dont? I forgot all about that weeks ago. You obviously didn't. Lol

Is reading comprehension a hidden disability?

A team of researchers find evidence suggesting that children's problems with reading comprehension may, at their core, be a spoken language problem.

www.psychologicalscience.org

Reading comprehension is critical to success in life, more than ever in history. Reading difficulties create educational difficulties, which in turn lead to social and economic disadvantage, including joblessness. Kids with poor comprehension skills may be flying under the radar of classroom teachers, but they can’t continue to avoid detection. They won’t be asked to read out loud in the real world, but they will be expected to know what they’ve read.

I should be more empathetic. I wish you health and happiness. Take care.