Are guys that do well on low dose clomid unicorns...or do they really exist?

[gerardo]

How about hcg ? Many takes it here which increase progesterone

So far Hcg has not increased progesterone in me

 

[madman]

So far Hcg has not increased progesterone in m

FDA has approved HCG as a prescription-only drug, indicated for the treatment of infertility, and is not approved for the OTC sale for any purpose.

Chorionic Gonadotropin was approved in 1974 for I.M use with the note on the label saying that it has no role in increasing weight loss beyond that resulting from caloric restriction. Further, it has no role in the distribution of fat or in decreasing the hunger and discomfort associated with calorie-restricted diets.[4] In India, HCG is indicated for anovulatory infertility, prepubertal cryptorchidism in males, male infertility due to hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, and delayed puberty, associated with hypogonadism in males. β-HCG is an excellent tumor marker for the monitoring of germ cell tumors when combined with alpha-fetoprotein. Currently, there are no FDA or CDSCO-approved HCG drug products for weight loss. Central Drug Standard Control Organization, India, has banned human placental extract and its formulations for human use.[5]


*The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is advising consumers to avoid human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) weight-loss products. These products are typically sold in the form of oral drops, pellets, and sprays, and can be found online, at weight loss clinics, and in some retail stores.



Hope you are not using this!

 

[Mfactory3]

FDA has approved HCG as a prescription-only drug, indicated for the treatment of infertility, and is not approved for the OTC sale for any purpose.

Chorionic Gonadotropin was approved in 1974 for I.M use with the note on the label saying that it has no role in increasing weight loss beyond that resulting from caloric restriction. Further, it has no role in the distribution of fat or in decreasing the hunger and discomfort associated with calorie-restricted diets.[4] In India, HCG is indicated for anovulatory infertility, prepubertal cryptorchidism in males, male infertility due to hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, and delayed puberty, associated with hypogonadism in males. β-HCG is an excellent tumor marker for the monitoring of germ cell tumors when combined with alpha-fetoprotein. Currently, there are no FDA or CDSCO-approved HCG drug products for weight loss. Central Drug Standard Control Organization, India, has banned human placental extract and its formulations for human use.[5]


*The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is advising consumers to avoid human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) weight-loss products. These products are typically sold in the form of oral drops, pellets, and sprays, and can be found online, at weight loss clinics, and in some retail stores.



Hope you are not using this!
View attachment 12646

Me, i found out if i take it ED is not ok, if i take every 4-5 day it works best. I use real thing.

 

[Mfactory3]

Thanks. Did you detect through tests that you needed hydrocortisone? What made your cortisol lower? This issue of cortisol is important because normally Trt lowers progesterone and to have cortisol you need progesterone ... it is a question that I don't see very well explained in Trt

Yes, i had a poor effect off acht provocation test, so doc decided that sone 5-10 mg corti would be ok if i do some sort off exercise etc. being ex sprinter I fucked nyself a bit with heavy cns workouts.

 

[Shawn M]

View attachment 1757

They actually EXIST!!!

There are certainly some challenges in treating with low dose clomid, specifically in dealing with the varying effect (estrogen antagonist/agonist) of the two isomers enclomiphene and zuclomiphene. However, as I (and Dr Crisler) have said many times...I DO ACHIEVE SUCCESS in a fair number of guys with both a good objective AND subjective (symptomatic) response. This is one of my patients. Now there are certainly many guys that do NOT respond well to clomid for various reasons (wrong dosing, mismanagement, poor estrogen control, high SHBG, lack of response from HPTA, or just simply not tolerating the medication), but there are also many that have a good and even great response.

Admittedly, the online and forum tone is overwhelmingly negative regarding clomid...as for some reason the guys that actually do well on clomid (you know who you are...LOL) are not as vocal as the guys who've had a negative experience. I've seen the quote many times in one form or another as a matter of fact statement: "clomid will get your T levels up, but you won't feel it...or you won't feel better". Indeed, there are guys that feel good and even great on clomid, from my estimation anywhere from 30-50% of the guys (especially under 40yo) that I treat. It does, however, take PATIENCE and I think this is where some guys give up too quicky, possibly partly due to the negative bias that they had already formed from their "expectations" of clomid not working for anyone. For a younger guy (or even older...my oldest guy on clomid is 58yo and has had a GREAT response...he doesn't want to come off!) that can or wants to stimulate his endogenous testosterone production, maintain OPTIMAL fertility, and buy himself precious years of natural production before having to rely on TRT - clomid can be a perfect treatment for these guys!

After all, if it fails then the TRT option is always there as a backup plan.

After checking this forum for clomid discussions, this seems to be the thread for me. I'm 67 yo and feel that my TRT program had been dialed in after a couple of years with 4 clicks 1% T cream/d and 250 IU HCG 3 days/wk (started after an E2 crash and back pain resulted from T cream only). I've felt great, and only an ED (MSF-E) problem lingered. The urologist who tested me with ultrasound found mild/moderate VL, which was well addressed with BiMix. I also found out that this Uro did TRT, so I decided to consolidate my program with him. At our first meeting on T, he asked: Why are you using HCG? I told him to maintain endogenous T production, and avoid the back pain from the E2 crash with T only. He also asked me: how do you know it's working? I told him from my experience of tumescence upon awakening from sleep at the end of the REM phase - this is how I feel production that I didn't with T only. So he then asked me: Why don't you use Clomid? It's less trouble (no injection, just a pill), and less off label out of pocket expense. So we agreed that I would use up my 2.5 months of HCG, then start clomid at 25 mg EOD and run labs in 6 months. Here goes! I hope I don't have adverse reactions, and that it can be fine tuned as discussed here. I now need to review the rest of the content in this thread.

 

[Vince]

After checking this forum for clomid discussions, this seems to be the thread for me. I'm 67 yo and feel that my TRT program had been dialed in after a couple of years with 4 clicks 1% T cream/d and 250 IU HCG 3 days/wk (started after an E2 crash and back pain resulted from T cream only). I've felt great, and only an ED (MSF-E) problem lingered. The urologist who tested me with ultrasound found mild/moderate VL, which was well addressed with BiMix. I also found out that this Uro did TRT, so I decided to consolidate my program with him. At our first meeting on T, he asked: Why are you using HCG? I told him to maintain endogenous T production, and avoid the back pain from the E2 crash with T only. He also asked me: how do you know it's working? I told him from my experience of tumescence upon awakening from sleep at the end of the REM phase - this is how I feel production that I didn't with T only. So he then asked me: Why don't you use Clomid? It's less trouble (no injection, just a pill), and less off label out of pocket expense. So we agreed that I would use up my 2.5 months of HCG, then start clomid at 25 mg EOD and run labs in 6 months. Here goes! I hope I don't have adverse reactions, and that it can be fine tuned as discussed here. I now need to review the rest of the content in this thread.

So you're dropping trt and going to try clomid? Good luck, let us know how it works for you.

 

[Shawn M]

So you're dropping trt and going to try clomid? Good luck, let us know how it works for you.

No, the Uro is keeping me on T Cream as well. I've heard that a restart is rare at my age.

 

[Cataceous]

No, the Uro is keeping me on T Cream as well. I've heard that a restart is rare at my age.

Most likely you'll be worse off; you'll lose the benefits of hCG and gain nothing. Exogenous testosterone is almost always too suppressive at the hypothalamus for a SERM to be effective.

 

[Vince]

No, the Uro is keeping me on T Cream as well. I've heard that a restart is rare at my age.

I agree with Cataceous. You be better off using HCG and you mimic your LH. I'm 66 and I inject 500 IU of HCG twice a week along with my testosterone. I like the effect it gives me. I think trt would be a struggle for me if I didn't use HCG.

​

 

[gerardo]

FDA has approved HCG as a prescription-only drug, indicated for the treatment of infertility, and is not approved for the OTC sale for any purpose.

Chorionic Gonadotropin was approved in 1974 for I.M use with the note on the label saying that it has no role in increasing weight loss beyond that resulting from caloric restriction. Further, it has no role in the distribution of fat or in decreasing the hunger and discomfort associated with calorie-restricted diets.[4] In India, HCG is indicated for anovulatory infertility, prepubertal cryptorchidism in males, male infertility due to hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, and delayed puberty, associated with hypogonadism in males. β-HCG is an excellent tumor marker for the monitoring of germ cell tumors when combined with alpha-fetoprotein. Currently, there are no FDA or CDSCO-approved HCG drug products for weight loss. Central Drug Standard Control Organization, India, has banned human placental extract and its formulations for human use.[5]


*The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is advising consumers to avoid human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) weight-loss products. These products are typically sold in the form of oral drops, pellets, and sprays, and can be found online, at weight loss clinics, and in some retail stores.



Hope you are not using this!
View attachment 12646

I've used Hcg in drops. At first the results were not bad but now I am using the injectable in a small dose of 250ui Hcg 2x / week subQ. So far I haven't seen any effect yet.

 

[gerardo]

FDA has approved HCG as a prescription-only drug, indicated for the treatment of infertility, and is not approved for the OTC sale for any purpose.

Chorionic Gonadotropin was approved in 1974 for I.M use with the note on the label saying that it has no role in increasing weight loss beyond that resulting from caloric restriction. Further, it has no role in the distribution of fat or in decreasing the hunger and discomfort associated with calorie-restricted diets.[4] In India, HCG is indicated for anovulatory infertility, prepubertal cryptorchidism in males, male infertility due to hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, and delayed puberty, associated with hypogonadism in males. β-HCG is an excellent tumor marker for the monitoring of germ cell tumors when combined with alpha-fetoprotein. Currently, there are no FDA or CDSCO-approved HCG drug products for weight loss. Central Drug Standard Control Organization, India, has banned human placental extract and its formulations for human use.[5]


*The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is advising consumers to avoid human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) weight-loss products. These products are typically sold in the form of oral drops, pellets, and sprays, and can be found online, at weight loss clinics, and in some retail stores.



Hope you are not using this!
View attachment 12646

Hello Madman. I couldn't find why you can't use sublingual HCG. Is there any study or more information that you can share? It is not for use for weight loss.

 

[Hormetheus]

In my opinion, clomid makes most males feel worse because of the way it interacts with ERs in the brain

 

[gerardo]

In my opinion, clomid makes most males feel worse because of the way it interacts with ERs in the brain

What would be the alternative to clomid? Tamoxifen?

 

[Hormetheus]

What would be the alternative to clomid? Tamoxifen?

Tamoxifen is poison and neurotoxic, but unfortunately yes, it would be an alternative because the mechanism of action is similar

 

[Cataceous]

In my opinion, clomid makes most males feel worse because of the way it interacts with ERs in the brain

Do you think it's the agonism of zuclomiphene, the antagonism of enclomiphene, or both? At least at low doses I'm not having problems with enclomiphene.

 

[Vince]

Do you think it's the agonism of zuclomiphene, the antagonism of enclomiphene, or both? At least at low doses I'm not having problems with enclomiphene.

Your combining that with testosterone right? How low of a dose of enclomiphene are you using?

 

[Cataceous]

Your combining that with testosterone right? How low of a dose of enclomiphene are you using?

Yes, I do use enclomiphene in conjunction with TRT. It enhances the gonadorelin-stimulated production of the gonadotropins. Currently I'm taking 12.5 mg enclomiphene EOD. Previously I wasn't having any particular issues with 12.5 mg daily, but I want to minimize use because there's still considerable uncertainty about exactly what SERMs are doing and where.

 

[gerardo]

Yes, I do use enclomiphene in conjunction with TRT. It enhances the gonadorelin-stimulated production of the gonadotropins. Currently I'm taking 12.5 mg enclomiphene EOD. Before this I wasn't having any particular issues with 12.5 mg daily, but I want to minimize use because there's still considerable uncertainty about exactly what SERMs are doing and where.

When serm is used both clomid and tamoxifen, does serum estradiol increase? How would it look at testicle level?

 

[Understanding123]

Hi there. I’ve been in trt for a year using gels two pumps daily. Also was using hcg twice a week. My challenge is that my E2 levels are really high compared to where I started and although they are not in the clinical danger zone I do find I’m having some issues ie no erections, feeling slightly emotional and sensitive nipples. I did take DIM to reduce E previously and it worked. I’m wondering if I switched from hcg and took enclomiphine along with DIM this would lower my E and prolactin levels to get rid of the negatives mentioned. Other than those things I feel awesome with my T levels as they currently are. I’ve attached my lates results, any thoughts feedback appreciated.
FSH 3.3IU/L
LH 3.3IU/L
Oestradiol 145pmol
Testosterone 26.7nmol
Free T 0.72nmol
Prolactin 224mIU

 

[Speed]

Hi there. I’ve been in trt for a year using gels two pumps daily. Also was using hcg twice a week. My challenge is that my E2 levels are really high compared to where I started and although they are not in the clinical danger zone I do find I’m having some issues ie no erections, feeling slightly emotional and sensitive nipples. I did take DIM to reduce E previously and it worked. I’m wondering if I switched from hcg and took enclomiphine along with DIM this would lower my E and prolactin levels to get rid of the negatives mentioned. Other than those things I feel awesome with my T levels as they currently are. I’ve attached my lates results, any thoughts feedback appreciated.
FSH 3.3IU/L
LH 3.3IU/L
Oestradiol 145pmol
Testosterone 26.7nmol
Free T 0.72nmol
Prolactin 224mIU

Wow, you are on the wrong path here budy
.. Chasing numbers never likenyou do, never gives results....
You estradiol IS PERFECTLY FINE here, and on trt there is no point in measuring it. You said "clinical danger zone?" There is no such thing as high e2 on trt if you feel great. Low E2 is a problem, not high. Your symptoms could be from hcg. It makes many people frel bad on it. My libido ans erection are terrible on hcg, evem the smallest dose....
I use ONLY t and feel great.
You are on the wrong patth here, and I, hope you're stop chasing numbers and go by how you feel. Many contradictions here, you can't use clomid and Testosterone together. No point. Also, i Don't know how your LH is not zero, like you're not taking enough testosterone. Obviously gel is not working for you. Your problem is not e2, it is wrong T protocol, and possible hcg usage... Start from that