Are guys that do well on low dose clomid unicorns...or do they really exist?

[M.J]

Yesterday was 4 weeks of ~12.5mg EOD for me (started right after 2.5 weeks of hcg). I have not felt noticeably bad. I know that is not the most glowing review, but it is great compared to my first experience with clomid, basically felt like a non-sexual entity. I am going to have test measured to check response. Also, sperm test, but that is another story.

i have done 12.5MG ED and then EOD didn't feel much not good not bad, I increased it now to 25mg EOD.

MyTEST ON 12.5MG EOD show my normal testosterone level didn't change but very low E !!! like below range !! and SHBG abit lower than my normal level.

I fell it didn't do much eacept maybe restart my system as I just stopped trt ( been 40 days now) lets see how 25mg EOD would be

 

[Gef]

Five years ago, before I was aware of forums like this one, I did four 3 week Clomid reboots @ 12.5 mg M-F. (over approx. 14 months) Each reboot sent me to ~ 1200 ng/dL. Each time it returned to a level higher than before; eventually settling between ~ 600 – 700 ng/dL. I included DIM for high E2 as well. No side effects. Now I’m doing a maintenance dose of 12.5mg and Dim 4 times a month (placebo effect?) and the usual supplements. ED is gone and libido is back and I have a new girlfriend. My GP suggested 5mg tadalafil 5x a week for added confidence. I’m 63. So I suppose “unicorns” do exist. I hope this helps.

 

[fifty]

I think new girlfriend fixes lots of issues

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Gef,

When you say 12.5mg four times per month do you literally mean just four doses, so 12.5 per week?

 

[Gef]

Yes, 12.5 per week with DIM. The reasoning is that I seem to be rather responsive to Clomid. It's been awhile but I seem to recall that one of the reboots sent me too far to be charted (1200+) after only 2 1/2 weeks of using online Clomid, which seemed risky. At the time I was on my own and experimenting and relying on local labs for my test results. Happily I have since found an enlightened GP for guidance and prescription Clomid. I can't honestly say 4x a months is making a difference or not, but the Clomid is paid by insurance and it seems to be working out for me without side effects. Is it placebo? Maybe but it doesn't matter.

 

[VDD]

Yes, 12.5 per week with DIM. The reasoning is that I seem to be rather responsive to Clomid. It's been awhile but I seem to recall that one of the reboots sent me too far to be charted (1200+) after only 2 1/2 weeks of using online Clomid, which seemed risky. At the time I was on my own and experimenting and relying on local labs for my test results. Happily I have since found an enlightened GP for guidance and prescription Clomid. I can't honestly say 4x a months is making a difference or not, but the Clomid is paid by insurance and it seems to be working out for me without side effects. Is it placebo? Maybe but it doesn't matter.

If I start clomid 25 mg every day if it has a value of 58 nmol / l of sgbh that is above the range, will it increase further?
If the total testosterone level rises, if there are more circulating androgens, the sgbh will not decrease?
Greetings.

 

[Gef]

VDD I’m not qualified to address your questions other than to say it depends on your physiology. These various types of reboots require rest periods. They may do nothing at all, do a little, or in my case go above the limit which of course can be harmful. My SBGH did not decrease.

 

[Cataceous]

If I start clomid 25 mg every day if it has a value of 58 nmol / l of sgbh that is above the range, will it increase further?
If the total testosterone level rises, if there are more circulating androgens, the sgbh will not decrease?
Greetings.

Guys with high SHBG are less likely to see good results with Clomid. The rise in testosterone is often offset by a rise in SHBG, resulting in little improvement in free testosterone. There are a couple anecdotal reports of guys getting good subjective results in spite of this. However, in general using enclomiphene is preferred because it is more likely to raise testosterone without elevating SHBG.

 

[VDD]

Guys with high SHBG are less likely to see good results with Clomid. The rise in testosterone is often offset by a rise in SHBG, resulting in little improvement in free testosterone. There are a couple anecdotal reports of guys getting good subjective results in spite of this. However, in general using enclomiphene is preferred because it is more likely to raise testosterone without elevating SHBG.

The problem is that I live in Spain and here there is no enclomiphene.
I don't know how I can do it to buy enclomiphene outside of Spain.
I had thought of adding dhea to clomiphene because the dhea levels I have are low.

 

[VDD]

Has anyone tried enclomiphene? Have you noticed a difference with respect to clomiphene with respect to side effects?
Cheers

 

[Mfactory3]

Younger, low SHBG guys may actually have a higher success rate with Clomid than the "typical" guy with normal or higher SHBG, as the SHBG increase can sometimes come as a benefit for these low SHBG guys (assuming the HPTA is very responsive/healthy and has a robust enough response).

Yes, monitor Total/free T, E2, LH, SHBG, check prolactin if LH/FSH suppressed for unknown reasons (elevated prolactin may be that "unknown" reason).

Starting dose can vary greatly depending on many individual factors, but as noted previously, anywhere from 25mg on down typically. I will often start a little more aggressive early (so I know right away if the HPTA is going to respond adequately), and then simply titrate down GRADUALLY over time to either:

A. Get the patient off of Clomid completely and see if levels maintain after a prolonged "kick start" so to speak (better chance of this by SLOWLY titrating down on the Clomid).

or

B. Get he patient down to the MINIMUM amount of Clomid that they need to keep their system stimulated (this is determined during the titration process via monitoring labs/symptoms).

Hope that helps!

Hi thanks for info.

been on hcg and clomid 12,5mg EOD for fertility since me and my GF are trying to....
For some reason my LH and FSH droped like a stone and were almost non existent
Also my kidneys looks like they dont like hcg. It raises my Creatinine and Urea.


my testo went up but still to way to low.

For any help I would be very thankful.

 

[Cataceous]

Hi thanks for info.

been on hcg and clomid 12,5mg EOD for fertility since me and my GF are trying to....
For some reason my LH and FSH droped like a stone and were almost non existent
Also my kidneys looks like they dont like hcg. It raises my Creatinine and Urea.


my testo went up but still to way to low.

For any help I would be very thankful.

Although there's some research showing that hCG and Clomid can coexist, I'm not surprised about your result. The hCG has likely raised your testosterone enough to suppress the hypothalamus. The hypothalamus receives negative feedback from both testosterone and estrogen. Clomid only prevents suppression by estrogen. If you want to keep your entire HPTA functional then you'll need to reduce or remove the hCG. It's a little worrisome that apparently hCG didn't even push your testosterone up to normal. This makes it less certain that you'll be able to make enough of your own testosterone to function properly.

 

[Mfactory3]

Although there's some research showing that hCG and Clomid can coexist, I'm not surprised about your result. The hCG has likely raised your testosterone enough to suppress the hypothalamus. The hypothalamus receives negative feedback from both testosterone and estrogen. Clomid only prevents suppression by estrogen. If you want to keep your entire HPTA functional then you'll need to reduce or remove the hCG. It's a little worrisome that apparently hCG didn't even push your testosterone up to normal. This makes it less certain that you'll be able to make enough of your own testosterone to function properly.

The problem is, that my GF wants to get pregnant. Otherwise i would go on T.
Any other suggestions and also I am a poor responder to ACHT provocation test on lower limit. But if i take 10-15 mg off corti over the day my libido gets shot. Lost case and I am getting frustrated because of it. But interesting is that all other parameters including shgb and tsh goes lower in more or less almost spot on.

 

[Cataceous]

I suggest looking into one of two treatments: Either enclomiphene alone—a much better option than Clomid—or TRT + hCG + FSH/hMG. If you're having trouble with making your own testosterone then the second option will make you feel better overall, while probably maintaining fertility.

I'll let someone with more knowledge of adrenal issues weigh in on that.

 

[Mfactory3]

I suggest looking into one of two treatments: Either enclomiphene alone—a much better option than Clomid—or TRT + hCG + FSH/hMG. If you're having trouble with making your own testosterone then the second option will make you feel better overall, while probably maintaining fertility.

I'll let someone with more knowledge of adrenal issues weigh in on that.

Any help or any recommendation would be beneficial.

 

[CKO]

From personal experience I was on 25 mg of clomid 3x week, 400 IU HCG x 2 week, and .25mg anastrozole x 3 week. This combination is done in the fertility world, but the concern is they may cancel each other out. My understanding is that the dose of HCG has to stay lower to prevent this from happening. From what I was told no more than 1,000 to 1,500 IU x week, or it will suppress your hpta (LH and FSH).

By the way the combination of clomid and HCG together made me feel the best I have of any treatment, right until my E2 went out of control. Good luck.

 

[gerardo]

Hi thanks for info.

been on hcg and clomid 12,5mg EOD for fertility since me and my GF are trying to....
For some reason my LH and FSH droped like a stone and were almost non existent
Also my kidneys looks like they dont like hcg. It raises my Creatinine and Urea.


my testo went up but still to way to low.

For any help I would be very thankful.

In your protocol are you taking hydrocortisone because your cortisol is low?

 

[Mfactory3]

In your protocol are you taking hydrocortisone because your cortisol is low?

Yes,

 

[gerardo]

Yes,

Thanks. Did you detect through tests that you needed hydrocortisone? What made your cortisol lower? This issue of cortisol is important because normally Trt lowers progesterone and to have cortisol you need progesterone ... it is a question that I don't see very well explained in Trt

 

[M.J]

Thanks. Did you detect through tests that you needed hydrocortisone? What made your cortisol lower? This issue of cortisol is important because normally Trt lowers progesterone and to have cortisol you need progesterone ... it is a question that I don't see very well explained in Trt

How about hcg ? Many takes it here which increase progesterone