Anti AI crowd

[jmbb]

is the compounded enanthate also made without the benzyl benzoate or whatever it's called?

I use the compounded enanthate from empower. It only uses benzyl alcohol. No benzyl benzoate.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

is the compounded enanthate also made without the benzyl benzoate or whatever it's called?

That's correct, it has just the small amount of benzyl alcohol as preservative. When benzyl benzoate is included, they use large amounts of BB (typically 1:1 ratio with the testosterone). Aside from whatever issues it may cause directly, via pharmacological effects, toxicity, or immune response, it also causes a huge spike of testosterone release until the BB disappears from the oil depot. The effects on testosterone release cause your injection to have a two-stage release pattern, almost like a Sustanon injection or something else that mixes fast and slow esters. Some combination of those factors must cause the negative reactions that some people have.

Seems to be relatively uncommon - maybe I am just a sensitive flower. My real-life friend had big problems with it too though, and was also rescued from TRT hell by Hikma enanthate, as was another guy on T-Nation I talked to.

 

[DixieWrecked]

Very good to know. Thanks guys.

 

[testiculus]

Have you tried any other ways to control E2? Aromasin, DHT derivatives?

Same question for @FunkOdyssey

No. I have BPH, so any DHT agonist is only to going to worsen it.

 

[Jerajera]

I'm very interested in the results of these experiments, so I hope you will keep us updated. I'd like to try all the same compounds at some point.

I definitely will. This is the most hopeful I've been as far as new protocols to try. Even if I were cursed to stay on my most successful protocol so far (Test C + Mast E) my life would be much better than it was pre-TRT, but I know it can get orders of magnitude better than this and I won't stop trying to figure it out.

The HPTA shutdown doesn't seem to affect everyone equally. Overall, I feel pretty good and mentally sharp. The only obvious cognitive impairment I experienced on TRT was associated with compounded cypionate. Maybe I haven't been shut down long enough for the consequences to catch up with me? It's been about 8 months now. My libido isn't great, but it wasn't any better before TRT.

I wonder whether it really is the excipients in compounded Cyp or the slightly shorter half-life of Enanthate. The half-lives are close enough that it shouldn't make a difference, but anecdotally I've seen many say they feel better on Enanthate, kind of the same way those who feel better on Prop describe (better cognitive function, less bloating, etc...), even when the comparison was between UGL Cyp and Enan using the same oil/excipients.

 

[Jerajera]

Thanks Jerajera. I did come close to throwing in the towel completely, until I tried Hikma enanthate, which was actually tolerable for me. I'm using Empower enanthate now as a result of the Hikma shortage - so far, that seems to be working well also. With T enanthate as a base, I'm now feeling mostly good, most of the time, regardless of the protocol adjustments I'm making.

That's great, must be a real relief.

Yeah. The way I conceptualize this now with the longer esters: if you draw a line that represents the spectrum of possible frequencies, at the low frequency end you have high libido and poor side effect control. At the high frequency end, you have lower libido and excellent side effect control. Thinking about it this way, if you want to optimize for libido, you reduce frequency as much as you can before side effects become too bothersome. I do believe E2 control can be helpful to improve your ability to tolerate lower frequencies.

Exactly, you put it much better than I did, that's exactly the way I see it now. I always felt better on less frequent injections (even daily Prop is like Test Cyp injected once/week relative to respective half-lives), but the side effect profile was worse, in my opinion very clearly from E2 peaks.

So hypothetical best of both worlds? Short ester with E2 control. Let's see...

 

[Jerajera]

Dr Nichols to the rescue with the most dogmatic, least scientific view in the thread and probably on the forums as a whole.

Let me guess, every single man's endocrine system will naturally perfectly balance E2 with the optimal conversion rate?

I'm amazed anyone let alone a doctor could approach an infinitely complex field with such oversimplistic models. That's what happens when you don't teach doctors math and stats beyond 6th grade level.

EDIT: he deleted his post. Classic

 

[GregHynson]

The reference range for E2 for men was established on men NOT on TRT and a total T of less than 500. So it would be the testosterone you would adjust, not adding an AI.

 

[DixieWrecked]

The reference range for E2 for men was established on men NOT on TRT and a total T of less than 500. So it would be the testosterone you would adjust, not adding an AI.

Well there ya have it folks. Disregard all previous posts and close this thread.

 

[WestB87]

As someone with a naturally very low SHBG, an AI is necessary to prevent over aromatization and redevelopment of the breast tissue I was cursed with as a teen going through puberty. I paid good money to get rid of that after being cursed with it for nearly 2 decades and I don’t want it reoccurring.

 

[Seagal]

For entertainment purposes... however related to the anti ai discussion

I assume he talks about cyp enan ester T...
Imo anastrozol is best dosed twice weekly.

 

[Vince]

In summary, higher testosterone levels and lower estrogen levels in men worsen cardiovascular risk factors that may help to explain gender differences in heart disease.

Men's Heart Disease Risk Linked to High Testosterone and Low Estrogen

Why men have more heart disease than premenopausal women has been unclear, but a new study shows that the sex hormones testosterone and estrogen alter cardiovascular risk factors in a way that raises a man’s risk of heart disease. Results of the study will be presented Saturday at the Endocrine...

www.endocrine.org

 

[Seagal]

In summary, higher testosterone levels and lower estrogen levels in men worsen cardiovascular risk factors that may help to explain gender differences in heart disease.

Men's Heart Disease Risk Linked to High Testosterone and Low Estrogen

Why men have more heart disease than premenopausal women has been unclear, but a new study shows that the sex hormones testosterone and estrogen alter cardiovascular risk factors in a way that raises a man’s risk of heart disease. Results of the study will be presented Saturday at the Endocrine...

www.endocrine.org

I cannot understand that from the text describing the study but the researcher is quoted: “These observations may help explain why men have a higher risk of cardiovascular disease,” Yu said.

 

[Seagal]

I cannot understand that from the text describing the study but the researcher is quoted: “These observations may help explain why men have a higher risk of cardiovascular disease,” Yu said.

@Vince, phdcomics.com was my favorite 'literature' during my studies.

PHD Comics: Deciphering Academese

phdcomics.com

 

[jmbb]

In summary, higher testosterone levels and lower estrogen levels in men worsen cardiovascular risk factors that may help to explain gender differences in heart disease.

Men's Heart Disease Risk Linked to High Testosterone and Low Estrogen

Why men have more heart disease than premenopausal women has been unclear, but a new study shows that the sex hormones testosterone and estrogen alter cardiovascular risk factors in a way that raises a man’s risk of heart disease. Results of the study will be presented Saturday at the Endocrine...

www.endocrine.org

I wish I could find the doses used. They mention the androgel dose but not the AI doses or estrogen levels. I doubt they micro dosed the AI so the estrogen was probably crushed into the ground. Estrogen is definitely cardio protective, but from what I've seen, more is not really offering any additional benefit once you already have a sufficient amount (in range).

 

[skycop00]

If you deem your estradiol high, and you take anastrozole and feel great on it, then nothing studies say will convince you to leave estradiol alone.

Blocking estradiol is like blocking DHT. But what I have been saying for years does not really matter, no matter how much data we have on the subject. I give up.

Estradiol Estrogen Tests for Men

Estradiol in men is an important hormone. Estradiol is a hormone produced from the aromatization of testosterone to counter testosterone's effect on cholesterol, heart, and bone. Estradiol is involved

www.discountedlabs.com

100% spot on!

 

[Seagal]

If you deem your estradiol high, and you take anastrozole and feel great on it, then nothing studies say will convince you to leave estradiol alone.

Blocking estradiol is like blocking DHT. But what I have been saying for years does not really matter, no matter how much data we have on the subject. I give up.

Estradiol Estrogen Tests for Men

Estradiol in men is an important hormone. Estradiol is a hormone produced from the aromatization of testosterone to counter testosterone's effect on cholesterol, heart, and bone. Estradiol is involved

www.discountedlabs.com

Do you take Tadalafil or other PDE5 inhibitors and have noticed a change in E2, T?

Tadalafil and Steroid Hormones Interactions in Adipose, Bone and Prostate Tissues: Focus on Translational Perspectives

Tadalafil is a selective phosphodiesterase type-5 (PDE5) inhibitor that is approved for the treatment of men with erectile dysfunction (ED) and/or benign prostate hyperplasia (BPH) -associated symptoms. Besides its classical actions on PDE5 within the ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Mastodont]

with .1 mg anastrozole twice weekly.

Sorry if it has been discussed, how do you divide the 1mg pill in 10 pieces?

 

[jmbb]

Sorry if it has been discussed, how do you divide the 1mg pill in 10 pieces?

Empower Pharmacy offers capsules in varying doses like .1mg. They also have tablets in varying sizes. I got .125mg tablets from them which can easily be split in half or quarters.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Sorry if it has been discussed, how do you divide the 1mg pill in 10 pieces?

As jmbb suggested, I have 0.1 mg capsules from Empower.