Anabolic Doc video on how he manages side effects of TRT

[Belekas]

I agree. If you need to stack multiple BP meds to control your BP on TRT you are probably taking too much testosterone. Stacking multiple cholesterol meds is going all in on a theory of atherosclerosis that seems to be growing weaker and weaker as time passes. And metformin looks unlikely to do anything beneficial for non-diabetics that exercise.

I thought thats the case as well but no more. Even on 50mg split e3.5d I had high BP, overstimulation type shit and felt like complete crap. I believe now more in the injection frequency and not the total dose. I think we have been brainwashed that we need to pin every "60mins to mimic natural test production" lmao. Also when I tried EOD I felt the worse so it confirms that frequent injections are def not for me. FWIW I have a high SHBG. But then again we all are too different to even begin with and one must try everything if success is the goal. Currently I've bumped my TRT dose to 125mg E5D and feeling really good. Will follow BP, mood, sleep, performance and erection quality over the upcoming months and then see if anything else needs to be done. Also libido is basically too much as I'm always thinking to nail this or that chick when I leave my crib LOL

 

[Gman86]

I was his patient for a couple months on theanabolicdocapp. Talked with him few times during man2man meetings. Hes a cool guy and I enjoyed my time with him and got all the required BP medication info. He is running 100mg Test Cyp E5D. And yes he takes tons of meds with some I don't agree either but its his choice and i'm cool with that. He fears LDL badly and anything above 120/80 BP as well. I think he knows his shit as a MD and does a great job with the meds and helping men around the world. Before offering any meds he always preaches the natural ways like diet, exercise l, sleep and if that doesn't help he introduces meds. Hes a very hyper-active guy like I am as well and always talks the importance of controlling racing heart/rhr for such people and likes to use Bystolic/Nebivolol if nothing else helps. I think it was mentioned in this thread before as well.

I have a lot to say about BP and RHR management and done some posts about it some time ago incase anyone is interested. For me when I was having 130s and higher upon waking no form of magnesium helped. The more I took it the worse I felt. Also no supplemental potassium as well. So all that was ditched. Right now using 66% reduced sodium LOSALT with potassium chloride and it works. After talking with the Anabolic Doc I decided to ditch my original protocol of E3.5D and just go with E5D or even E6D if I forget which is rare. So I ditched the old injection protocol, jumped on the 100mg E5D and everything started falling in the way I want it. Also I think key is that I ditched my Sustanon250 made by Aspen I had bought from pharmacy and introduced Pharma grade Testosterone Enanthate from India "Testviron". Also I started eating a lot of carbs as was feeling like crap eating Carnivore only. That WOE is def not for me but has its place when needed to manage gut symptoms as for me. Maybe for an average guy which I'm not. Lots of muscle, 20 years of training, absolutely different training, hard cardio sessions, big daily activities, etc etc. so anyway long story short my BP dipped below the pre TRT baseline levels and never ever seen before. Pretty much this BP every day in the morning fasted BUT if sleep was not that good my BP reacts to it, so sleep is crucial IME. I could go on and on but don't want to derail the thread and just want to say that everyone is different and what someone does, eats, takes to feel great, have low BP, etc etc, might absolutely wreck another person. I always was a proponent of high salt intake and guess what its been not good for me even though I'm an animal once training. So now keeping my salt intake upto 2500mg sodium per day has been working great and I feel even better on even lower salt FWIW. To help me see the overall picture/context of how much salt I was consuming per day I used Chronometer and noticed that I intake a lot more salt then I need to because of the foods that I eat which have salt in them. So if you need 5g salt and eat say some bit processed foods on the daily there can easily be that you are consuming even 10g of salt instead of 5g/day. Without tracking you won't know shit. Thats why data rulez. I also started running some supps and made a post about them as well. So as the saying goes-

If you can measure it- you can improve it

Best regards,
Bel

Ya been seeing a lot of good info recently that supports full carnivore possibly not being ideal long term, and that getting at least 100-150g of carbs per day might actually be preferable. Basically something about insulin spikes being necessary for quite a few vital processes. Here’s a vid where the guy explains it pretty well, imo

and ya I’m all about everyone just doing what’s best for them and what makes them the happiest overall. If what the anabolic doc is doing makes him happy, I say keep doing it. What he’s doing diet wise just isn’t very healthy, and is not ideal if u want to feel ur best, perform ur best, and increase longevity the best that u can. So his diet would be one of the last ways I would personally eat. And taking BP meds and statins will absolutely decrease ur health overall, and decrease longevity. Statins more so than BP meds. But anytime u alter the natural processes of the body, especially with medications, there’s going to be consequences. The body is an absolutely amazing machine, that’s been fine tuned over millions of years. Anytime u alter the way it naturally wants to function, ur going to have problems.

and there’s so many moving parts when it comes to what works and doesn’t for each of us individually. Everyones diet is so different, everyone’s hormone levels are so different, everyone‘s electrolyte intake as a whole is so different, everyone’s stress levels are so different (which can deplete all sorts of micronutrients and electrolytes), everyone’s exercise routines and physically demands in their day to day life are so different, that it’s impossible to say what’s gonna work for everyone, as far as supplementing with things like magnesium, potassium and salt goes, for some examples. We all just have to trial and error what works best for us as individuals. I follow a lady that has a YouTube channel all about carnivore, and through trial and error she figured out that she feels amazing when she never adds salt to any of her food, and feels really sluggish and brain foggy whenever she does

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I thought thats the case as well but no more. Even on 50mg split e3.5d I had high BP, overstimulation type shit and felt like complete crap. I believe now more in the injection frequency and not the total dose. I think we have been brainwashed that we need to pin every "60mins to mimic natural test production" lmao. Also when I tried EOD I felt the worse so it confirms that frequent injections are def not for me. FWIW I have a high SHBG. But then again we all are too different to even begin with and one must try everything if success is the goal. Currently I've bumped my TRT dose to 125mg E5D and feeling really good. Will follow BP, mood, sleep, performance and erection quality over the upcoming months and then see if anything else needs to be done. Also libido is basically too much as I'm always thinking to nail this or that chick when I leave my crib LOL

First I think it is awesome that you have found a protocol that is working so well and managed to achieve excellent control of your BP. Great work there.

You attribute success to the change in frequency, but I think you said you also switched from sustanon to testosterone enanthate at the same time. Did you also try the E3.5D protocol with enanthate or the E5D protocol with sustanon? If you did not, then we don't know for sure how much the ester change is helping versus frequency change.

 

[Belekas]

Ya been seeing a lot of good info recently that supports full carnivore possibly not being ideal long term, and that getting at least 100-150g of carbs per day might actually be preferable. Basically something about insulin spikes being necessary for quite a few vital processes. Here’s a vid where the guy explains it pretty well, imo

and ya I’m all about everyone just doing what’s best for them and what makes them the happiest overall. If what the anabolic doc is doing makes him happy, I say keep doing it. What he’s doing diet wise just isn’t very healthy, and is not ideal if u want to feel ur best, perform ur best, and increase longevity the best that u can. So his diet would be one of the last ways I would personally eat. And taking BP meds and statins will absolutely decrease ur health overall, and decrease longevity. Statins more so than BP meds. But anytime u alter the natural processes of the body, especially with medications, there’s going to be consequences. The body is an absolutely amazing machine, that’s been fine tuned over millions of years. Anytime u alter the way it naturally wants to function, ur going to have problems.

and there’s so many moving parts when it comes to what works and doesn’t for each of us individually. Everyones diet is so different, everyone’s hormone levels are so different, everyone‘s electrolyte intake as a whole is so different, everyone’s stress levels are so different (which can deplete all sorts of micronutrients and electrolytes), everyone’s exercise routines and physically demands in their day to day life are so different, that it’s impossible to say what’s gonna work for everyone, as far as supplementing with things like magnesium, potassium and salt goes, for some examples. We all just have to trial and error what works best for us as individuals. I follow a lady that has a YouTube channel all about carnivore, and through trial and error she figured out that she feels amazing when she never adds salt to any of her food, and feels really sluggish and brain foggy whenever she does

Yeah I've watched this before. To be absolutely honest with you I'd say this - nobody knows what is long-term healthy and what is not because there has been 0 studies on the cause and effect of any particular diet and to make such research/experiment would be pretty much next to impossible. Another thing like you say, it can be absolutely good for you, but might wreck the next man because there are tons of different variables at play. The doc is advocating the DASH diet so still it will be 1000 times more healthier then the average Joe Crack eats on the daily basis to which I won't even get into. All the people I know in the UK now should be dead by 60 and ill AF considered how they eating and treating themselfs. Now theres also a difference between a sedentary style person and an active lifter, runner, crossfitter or whatever who works his ass off on the weekly basis, tracks, measures and thinks how to improve his shit, etc. If you like some processed carbs without any fats post or pre workout and you earn them- crack on but for Joe Crack who is sitting all day watching PornHub, smoking on the THC distillate vape that would be straight detrimental IMO and he wouldnt burn through that, then it gets problematic. Same with salt- context matters but I'm still cautious of high salt for long-term health. Readalot had posted a lot of data about this before and now since I'm was the one effected I feel that a lot of men have the same issue with salt just they dont know about it or don't care because they listen to those who say more salt and nothing else matters. Add some processed foods on the daily basis, no tracking, just eyeballing, and boom, you have yourself a 10-20g salt per day and high BP knocking at your door.

 

[Belekas]

First I think it is awesome that you have found a protocol that is working so well and managed to achieve excellent control of your BP. Great work there.

You attribute success to the change in frequency, but I think you said you also switched from sustanon to testosterone enanthate at the same time. Did you also try the E3.5D protocol with enanthate or the E5D protocol with sustanon? If you did not, then we don't know for sure how much the ester change is helping versus frequency change.

Thank you.

You are right. I havent tried Test-E on E3.5D, just checked my log book, but after all I've been through thats the last thing I want to try. So can also be Ester change correct, but still I believe that overstimulation comes from too high levels in the blood thus frequent injections. But fair enough, I made a lot of changes at once and its impossible to say exactly what worked the most. Still I feel completely different on E5D and Test-E. Also I have 10ml of Sustanon left so I might do a little experiment and pin some Sustanon and see if it effects my BP and overall.

 

[madman]

Thank you.

You are right. I havent tried Test-E on E3.5D, just checked my log book, but after all I've been through thats the last thing I want to try. So can also be Ester change correct, but still I believe that overstimulation comes from too high levels in the blood thus frequent injections. But fair enough, I made a lot of changes at once and its impossible to say exactly what worked the most. Still I feel completely different on E5D and Test-E. Also I have 10ml of Sustanon left so I might do a little experiment and pin some Sustanon and see if it effects my BP and overall.

One can easily have too high a trough FT level injecting less frequently.

It's not just peak levels here.


Ok so its official today had my first proper set of labs since starting TRT October 16th last year. My protocol has been 100mg per week split E3.5D of Sustanon250 every Sunday and Wednesday. Test has been done today (Wednesday) fasted at 9am in the morning.

DHEA-SO4 5.04μmol/L (2,41 - 11,60)
FAI 78,284% (35-92.6)
SHGB 37.3nmol/L (18,3 - 54,1)
Testosterone 29.2nmol/L (8,64 - 29,0)
E2 124pmol/l (40 - 162)
PSA 0.815μg/l (<2)
TSH 2.32 mIU/L (0,27 - 4,2)
fT3 4.03pmol/l (2,63 - 5,7)
fT4 13.83pmol/l (9 - 19,05)




Before I was on the 100mg/week split E3.5D I had my TT at through right before the next injection at 30nmol/L(8.6-29) and E2 at 124pmol/L(40-162). Now on the 100mg E5D my TT tested at through, fasted as well, came back 18nmol/L(8.3-30) and E2 at 91pmol/L(0-162). So E3 went down and also TT pretty much back to baseline on the injection day. My baseline TT was 16.3nmol/L IIRC.

Think this through here.

You have dabbled with <100 mg T/week and had a fair run with 100mg T/week split (50 mg every 3.5 days) than more recent experimentation with 100 mg T every 5 days.

On 100 mg T/week split (50mg every 3.5 days) you were hitting a very high trough TT 29-30 nmol/L (836-865 ng/dL), and you drove down your pre-TRT high SHBG 57 nmol/L to a more normal range of 37.3 nmol/L.

With a high-end trough TT 800s and fairly normal SHBG 37.3 nmol/L your trough FT is going to be in the high-end.

cFTV would have your trough FT 18.9 ng/dL.

A healthy young natty male is hitting much less than that and this is a short-lived peak to boot.

More importantly, your peak TT/FT is going to be even higher as in well over the top-end!

Then you went and bumped your dose of T from 100 mg/week split (50mg every 3.5 days)--->100 mg every 5 days which would be 140 mg/week.

100 mg--->140 mg T/week is a big bump.

You stated that your trough TT on 100 mg T every 5 days was only 18 nmol/L (519 ng/dL).

You are still hitting a TT in the 500s (far from low) 5 days after your injection.

Have no clue where your FT/SHBG sits as you never posted.

Even then your peak TT/FT levels are going to be much higher!

Gets even worse as you just bumped up your dose of T again from 100 mg--->125 mg every 5 days so you went from 140 mg/week--->175 mg/week.

35 mg T/week is a big jump.

Good chance your previous trough (5 days post-injection) TT is going to be 700-800 ng/dL on 175 mg T/week.

Now your trough TT/FT let alone peak TT/FT is going to be much higher.

Big mistake trying to aim for a high trough TT/FT level when injecting less frequently as in every 5-7 days.

When you first came on the forum you started on a sensible weekly dose of T (100 mg/week).

You even tried a short stint of <100 mg/week which most would never do as unfortunately everyone is brainwashed into thinking more T is better.

Now you just did a complete 360 and bumped up your dose from 140 mg---> 175 mg T/week which is a fair dose and would easily have most men's trough FT high/very high especially when split into more frequent injections.




FWIW I have a high SHBG. But then again we all are too different to even begin with and one must try everything if success is the goal. Currently I've bumped my TRT dose to 125mg E5D and feeling really good. Will follow BP, mood, sleep, performance and erection quality over the upcoming months and then see if anything else needs to be done. Also libido is basically too much as I'm always thinking to nail this or that chick when I leave my crib LOL

You would mean you had high SHBG pre-TRT and you had driven it down on TRT.

The last set of labs you posted had it at 37.3 nmoL/L (fairly normal), where it sits as of now who knows but there is a good chance it is not high as you are injecting 125 mg T every 5 days which would be 175 mg T/week.

It is a given that libido will ramp up when increasing the T dose.

The first 6 weeks mean nothing when looking at the bigger picture.

How you truly feel overall 12 weeks in will determine whether such protocol was a success or failure.

As I have stated numerous times on the forum there is a big difference in hitting a high-end trough FT injecting once weekly let alone every 5 days compared to injecting daily or EOD.

Most get caught up in that more T is better mentality aiming for that high let alone absurdly high trough FT without taking into account their injection frequency which will have a huge impact when looking at peak vs trough levels!

Again do what you feel is best for you but at least understand where you may be going.

 

[madman]

Side effects are going to be minimal to non-existent when running a sensible trough FT level on TRT!

 

[Belekas]

One can easily have too high a trough FT level injecting less frequently.

It's not just peak levels here.


Ok so its official today had my first proper set of labs since starting TRT October 16th last year. My protocol has been 100mg per week split E3.5D of Sustanon250 every Sunday and Wednesday. Test has been done today (Wednesday) fasted at 9am in the morning.

DHEA-SO4 5.04μmol/L (2,41 - 11,60)
FAI 78,284% (35-92.6)
SHGB 37.3nmol/L (18,3 - 54,1)
Testosterone 29.2nmol/L (8,64 - 29,0)
E2 124pmol/l (40 - 162)
PSA 0.815μg/l (<2)
TSH 2.32 mIU/L (0,27 - 4,2)
fT3 4.03pmol/l (2,63 - 5,7)
fT4 13.83pmol/l (9 - 19,05)




Before I was on the 100mg/week split E3.5D I had my TT at through right before the next injection at 30nmol/L(8.6-29) and E2 at 124pmol/L(40-162). Now on the 100mg E5D my TT tested at through, fasted as well, came back 18nmol/L(8.3-30) and E2 at 91pmol/L(0-162). So E3 went down and also TT pretty much back to baseline on the injection day. My baseline TT was 16.3nmol/L IIRC.
Think this through here.

You have dabbled with <100 mg T/week and had a fair run with 100mg T/week split (50 mg every 3.5 days) than more recent experimentation with 100 mg T every 5 days.

On 100 mg T/week split (50mg every 3.5 days) you were hitting a very high trough FT 29-30 nmol/L (836-865 ng/dL), and you drove down your pre-TRT high SHBG 57 nmol/L to a more normal range of 37.3 nmol/L.

With a high-end trough TT 800s and fairly normal SHBG 37.3 nmol/L your trough FT is going to be in the high-end.

cFTV would have your trough FT 18.9 ng/dL.

A healthy young natty male is hitting much less than that and this is a short-lived peak to boot.

More importantly, your peak TT/FT is going to be even higher as in well over the top-end!

Then you went and bumped your dose of T from 100 mg T/week split (50mg every 3.5 days)--->100 mg T every 5 days which would be 140 mg T/week.

100 mg--->140 mg T/week is a big bump.

You stated that your trough TT on 100mg T every 5 days was only 18 nmol/L (519 ng/dL).

You are still hitting a TT in the 500s (far from low) 5 days after your injection.

Have no clue where your FT/SHBG sits as you never posted.

Even then your peak TT/FT levels are going to be much higher!

Gets even worse as you just bumped up your dose of T again from 100 mg--->125 mg every 5 days so you went from 140 mg T/week--->175 mg T/week.

35 mg T/week is a big jump.

Good chance your previous trough (5 days post-injection) TT is going to be 700-800 ng/dL on 175 mg T/week.

Now your trough TT/FT let alone peak TT/FT is going to be much higher.

Big mistake trying to aim for a high trough TT/FT level when injecting less frequently as in every 5-7 days.

When you first came on the forum you started on a sensible weekly dose of T (100 mg/week).

You even tried a short stint of <100 mg/week which most would never do as unfortunately everyone is brainwashed into thinking more T is better.

Now you just did a complete 360 and bumped up your dose from 140 mg---> 175 mg T/week which is a fair dose and would easily have most men's trough FT high/very high especially when split into more frequent injections.




FWIW I have a high SHBG. But then again we all are too different to even begin with and one must try everything if success is the goal. Currently I've bumped my TRT dose to 125mg E5D and feeling really good. Will follow BP, mood, sleep, performance and erection quality over the upcoming months and then see if anything else needs to be done. Also libido is basically too much as I'm always thinking to nail this or that chick when I leave my crib LOL

You would mean you had high SHBG pre-TRT and you had driven it down on TRT.

The last set of labs you posted had it at 37.3 nmoL/L (fairly normal), where it sits as of now who knows but there is a good chance it is not high as you are injecting 125 mg T every 5 days which would be 175 mg T/week.

It is a given that libido will ramp up when increasing the T dose.

The first 6 weeks mean nothing when looking at the bigger picture.

How you truly feel overall 12 weeks in will determine whether such protocol was a success or failure.

As I have stated numerous times on the forum there is a big difference in hitting a high-end trough FT injecting once weekly let alone every 5 days compared to injecting daily or EOD.

Most get caught up in that more T is better mentality aiming for that high let alone absurdly high trough FT without taking into account their injection frequency which will have a huge impact when looking at peak vs trough levels!

Again do what you feel is best for you but at least understand where you may be going.

First of all Hi madman.

I understand all this but thank you for your time. I was enough time on 100mg/week split E3.5D but wasn't feeling good and ran into sides. At the moment I'm feeling like a new guy and all my sides that I had are gone. I will continue to monitor and see how that goes going forward. I feel a lot better injecting once every 5 days then I did every 3.5 days FWIW. Will that be still the thing after 12 weeks? Fuck knows, I hope and we will see. I don't care what the average joe does even if he is pinning 10 times per day. I do me, and they do them, right. I'm not caught up into more T the better but if you read my journal I was completely the opposite but nevermind. Yes I bumped my dose to 140mg/week and then to 175mg/week by injecting 125mg E5D. If that makes me feel great, keeps my BP low, all the bloodwork looks good, I have no problem with that. I'm an athlete and been one for the last 20 years. I love training and making gains. Doing brutal cardio, etc. If this amount of T makes me function great without any issues I will continue on this path if not then I will lower the dose but will keep E5D protocol. My libido was always good and I never had problems with that and erection quallity as well. Even during my hardest times using tons of alchohol, doing mad amounts of drugs, etc. I'm not crying, I'm not complaining, I'm just sharing my experience. Nobody has to pay any attention if they don't want to and everyone is entitles to their own opinion and to do what they think its best for them. I adopted E5D protocol from Dr. Thomas O'Connor after talking with him during online man2man meeting as he is on the same protocol as well and feels the best. To be precise hes on 100mg Test-Cyp E5D. Yes the bump from 100mg E5D to 125mg E5D is significant but since starting this protocol vs my old E3.5D I felt a lot better pretty much by the next shot. BP crashed into uncharted territories, overstimulation went away, not feeling hot all the time and just more cool, calm and collected. Might have been the change of esters as well as I went from Sustanon to Test-E, who knows. So yes I will continue on my path and do what works best and makes me feel the best.

Thanks for looking out for all of us. Appreciate the trouble.

Best regards,
Bel

 

[madman]

TRT or HRT!

HRT as in that so-called optimal you know running absurdly high trough FT levels, let alone jumping on those bandwagon compounds (ND, oxo, mast, primo, GH) would be for those caught up/brainwashed on the so-called men's health forums loaded with those blast n cruizerzzz or gootube loaded with some of those so-called TRT gurus.

 

[Cataceous]

... And from what I’ve gathered so far, seems like he advocates for the DASH diet, which is pretty much the exact way that I figured he would be eating. There’s literally no amount of money on the planet that could get me to eat this diet on a daily basis indefinitely. And I mean that whole heartedly. Diet lowers Bp huh? Well other than the sugar sweetened beverages and sweets, my diet mostly consists of the things it says to limit. And my BP is lower than the anabolic doc’s is, without meds, while he needs 2 BP meds simply to keep his around the 120/80 range. ...

Which means what exactly in the overall scheme of things? My diet is similar to Mediterranean / DASH diets, and I probably have a couple of decades on you as well. Also no BP meds.

Clearly a lot of factors go into this. It's always possible that you have good numbers in spite of your diet rather than because of it. And yes, the DASH diet does modestly reduce blood pressure relative to whatever the research subjects were eating at baseline.

The DASH diet is based on NIH studies that examined three dietary plans and their results. None of the plans were vegetarian, but the DASH plan incorporated more fruits and vegetables, low fat or nonfat dairy, beans, and nuts than the others studied. The DASH diet reduced systolic blood pressure by 6 mm Hg and diastolic blood pressure by 3 mm Hg in patients with high normal blood pressure (formerly called "pre-hypertension"). Those with hypertension dropped by 11 and 6 mm Hg, respectively. These changes in blood pressure occurred with no changes in body weight.​

[R]

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Which means what exactly in the overall scheme of things? My diet is similar to Mediterranean / DASH diets, and I probably have a couple of decades on you as well. Also no BP meds.

View attachment 38141

Clearly a lot of factors go into this. It's always possible that you have good numbers in spite of your diet rather than because of it. And yes, the DASH diet does modestly reduce blood pressure relative to whatever the research subjects were eating at baseline.

The DASH diet is based on NIH studies that examined three dietary plans and their results. None of the plans were vegetarian, but the DASH plan incorporated more fruits and vegetables, low fat or nonfat dairy, beans, and nuts than the others studied. The DASH diet reduced systolic blood pressure by 6 mm Hg and diastolic blood pressure by 3 mm Hg in patients with high normal blood pressure (formerly called "pre-hypertension"). Those with hypertension dropped by 11 and 6 mm Hg, respectively. These changes in blood pressure occurred with no changes in body weight.​

[R]

I'm curious if you have any insights into maintaining a low resting heart rate. This is the primary issue I have been wrestling with. I was thinking my elevated RHR might be due to the cyp ester and have been doing a trial of T-prop, but I am now thinking that my persistently low estrogen may be the cause. My conditioning level "should" have it in the 50's but it has been around 70 since I started TRT.

 

[Gman86]

Which means what exactly in the overall scheme of things? My diet is similar to Mediterranean / DASH diets, and I probably have a couple of decades on you as well. Also no BP meds.

View attachment 38141

Clearly a lot of factors go into this. It's always possible that you have good numbers in spite of your diet rather than because of it. And yes, the DASH diet does modestly reduce blood pressure relative to whatever the research subjects were eating at baseline.

The DASH diet is based on NIH studies that examined three dietary plans and their results. None of the plans were vegetarian, but the DASH plan incorporated more fruits and vegetables, low fat or nonfat dairy, beans, and nuts than the others studied. The DASH diet reduced systolic blood pressure by 6 mm Hg and diastolic blood pressure by 3 mm Hg in patients with high normal blood pressure (formerly called "pre-hypertension"). Those with hypertension dropped by 11 and 6 mm Hg, respectively. These changes in blood pressure occurred with no changes in body weight.​

[R]

Exactly. There’s way too many factors that affect BP for one specific way of eating to be the end all be all, as far as maintaining a healthy BP goes. Maintaining a healthy BP, and maintaining great cardiovascular health in general, all comes down to how insulin sensitive ur cells/ tissues are, as well as how much chronic inflammation u have going on.

The issue with the DASH diet is that there’s foods that a person might eat, on a daily basis, that are going to increase chronic inflammation, and decrease insulin sensitivity over time. For example, vegetable oils are one of the #1, if not the #1 contributors of this. Fat free/ low fat grain fed pasteurized/ homogenized dairy is also going to increase chronic inflammation and decrease insulin sensitivity overtime. Vegetables, nuts, seeds, and beans aren’t as bad, but they all contain things like lectins, oxalates, and anti-nutrients, that are going to be insulting the body if eaten on a regular basis. These insults can affect the cardiovascular system in their own ways. The fats in poultry not fed its natural diet can also increase chronic inflammation, if the skin is eaten. Farm raised fish can also increase inflammation overtime, when eaten on a regular basis. Not near as much as vegetable oils or crap dairy, but it still insults the body to a degree, and if eaten regularly, can cause issues overtime, and anytime ur consistently insulting ur body, it’s most likely going to affect ur cardiovascular system in some way. And then whole grains is kind of an ambiguous thing. I’m sure the grains that people eat on a DASH diet vary greatly. And who knows how many grains people on this diet are eating that contain gluten, which we all know messes with digestion and increases chronic inflammation to a degree.

A person can absolutely eat the DASH diet and have a healthy BP. U seem like a good example. There’s many other ways to keep the cardiovascular system healthy. Some of the main things include regular exercise, optimizing sleep and keeping stress low. All I’m saying is that the DASH diet overall appears to be a pretty bad diet if keeping chronic inflammation low, and insulin sensitivity high goes. But the DASH diet just gives examples of foods to eat. I‘m sure everyone is eating different ratios of each food group, and some people probably eat some foods on the list, and exclude others. A person on the DASH diet that eats mostly fruits, poultry, fish and select grains that are free of gluten and mostly benign, like white rice, are going to be eating a much healthier diet than someone on the DASH diet thats eating mostly vegetable oils, crap dairy, nuts, seeds and beans. So I’m sure a persons overall health on this diet can vary greatly, as well as each persons cardiovascular systems go, that are on this diet.

 

[Gman86]

I'm curious if you have any insights into maintaining a low resting heart rate. This is the primary issue I have been wrestling with. I was thinking my elevated RHR might be due to the cyp ester and have been doing a trial of T-prop, but I am now thinking that my persistently low estrogen may be the cause. My conditioning level "should" have it in the 50's but it has been around 70 since I started TRT.

I’m obv an N of 1, but I’m currently using enanthate and my RHR is around where Cataceous‘ is

 

[Cataceous]

I'm curious if you have any insights into maintaining a low resting heart rate. This is the primary issue I have been wrestling with. I was thinking my elevated RHR might be due to the cyp ester and have been doing a trial of T-prop, but I am now thinking that my persistently low estrogen may be the cause. My conditioning level "should" have it in the 50's but it has been around 70 since I started TRT.

I did experience that pounding heart sensation and higher RHR at higher doses of testosterone. I think you're on the right track with T propionate, or better yet, a blend. The key is to reduce total testosterone exposure while maintaining a physiological daily peak serum level. There is some evidence that the peak levels give us many of the benefits, whereas the average or trough levels may be more important drivers of the side effects.

Decades of competitive cycling probably contribute to my nightly low RHR of 40 bpm. I've hit as low as 28 bpm, though that was long ago and during a period of calorie restriction.

It would be straightforward to test your estrogen hypothesis by supplementing for a period. You'd have better control if you added it to your injections, but topical forms would work too. Initially I would aim to absorb only 5-15 mcg of exogenous estradiol daily.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

I’m obv an N of 1, but I’m currently using enanthate and my RHR is around where Cataceous‘ is

Did you switch from cyp and if so did you notice a change?

 

[Cataceous]

...
The issue with the DASH diet is that there’s foods that a person might eat, on a daily basis, that are going to increase chronic inflammation, and decrease insulin sensitivity over time. ...

These concerns are allayed by what is observed in vivo. Take a look at this study from last year, which examines dietary influence on longevity. Their version of a longevity diet:

• A legume and whole grain-rich pescatarian or vegetarian diet
• 30% of calories from vegetable fats such as nuts and olive oil
• A low but sufficient protein diet until age 65 and then moderate protein intake
• Low sugar and refined carbs
• No red or processed meat
• Limited white meat
• 12 hours of eating and 12 of fasting per day
• Around three cycles of a five-day fasting-mimicking diet per year

[R]

 

[Gman86]

Did you switch from cyp and if so did you notice a change?

Yes, after looking back at some of my BP and HR readings that I wrote down while on cyp, it does look like my HR has dropped quite a bit. Looks like on cyp I was around 70-80 for HR. But obv there’s so many variables that can go into a resting heart rate. But looks like I’m running lower on enanthate

 

[Gman86]

These concerns are allayed by what is observed in vivo. Take a look at this study from last year, which examines dietary influence on longevity. Their version of a longevity diet:

• A legume and whole grain-rich pescatarian or vegetarian diet
• 30% of calories from vegetable fats such as nuts and olive oil
• A low but sufficient protein diet until age 65 and then moderate protein intake
• Low sugar and refined carbs
• No red or processed meat
• Limited white meat
• 12 hours of eating and 12 of fasting per day
• Around three cycles of a five-day fasting-mimicking diet per year

[R]

Epidemiological studies are unfortunately a horrible way to assess anything diet related. The best way to assess what foods are best for the human body, health wise, is to learn how each individual food reacts in the human body, and what processes it can help, and what processes it can possibly hurt. This study, overall, seems to be way behind the science of how foods actually work in the human body once ingested. It’s pretty well known, imo, that cardiovascular disease is due to chronic inflammation and chronic insulin resistance of our cells/ tissues. Not from eating a diet high in red meat/ saturated fats. That’s what most people were taught growing up, and some people continue to believe this, but it’s simply not the case if u actually look into how red meat/ saturated fats interact within the human body once ingested.

If a person/ study is only looking at epidemiological information, there’s just way too much correlation equals causation/ subjective interpretation going on, to ever come to the correct conclusions, as far as what the optimal diet for most humans is.


I do agree with one conclusion that this study came up with tho. The fact that there are different ways of eating that can all lead to a long and healthy life, free of chronic disease.

 

[JmarkH]

AND now let us bow to the next great utube guru Gman86! He has it all figured out for those of us regular folks. OH and doctors.

 

[Gman86]

AND now let us bow to the next great utube guru Gman86! He has it all figured out for those of us regular folks. OH and doctors.

Far from it man lol. Just going by what makes sense when u break down each food and how they interact within our bodies. Can’t base things off of correlations. Epidemiological evidence is all based on correlations, and poor reporting of what the people actually eat, in most cases. It’s the worst way to assess how food interacts in the human body, and what works from a health perspective, imo. Always looking to adjust my views btw. Nobody will ever have it all figured out