A Cautionary Tale...

[madman]

@madman thank you. so, in your opinion, my symptoms are not related to my hormones?

@aloetard do you agree?

@Systemlord thank you. i'm going reach out to him.

​

The point being stressed here is based of the go to cFTV your FT is not low even with highish/high SHBG as you are hitting a high enough TT.

Seeing as it has already been validated twice, 1st time was done using TT/SHBG assays no longer available and eventually re-validated using current state-of-the-art Equilibrium Dialysis (higher order reference method) let alone more recently against CDCs standardized Equilibrium Dialysis assay.

Yes it tends to overestimated slightly when compared to the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis but it is nothing to fret over.

If anything retest your FT through Quest using the gold standard ED assay so you can see where it truly sits.

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Still doubtful it will come back low.

If it does end up coming back borderline low than you can decide on your next move.

All that matters here is finding out where your current FT level truly sits before jumping to any conclusions.

Even then I would tread lightly when it comes to libido let alone erectile function as they are both multifactorial and it is much more complex than simply having healthy FT levels.

Any dysfunction thyroid/adrenal scan easily mimic low-T symptoms.




This thread is gold!

Truth About Testosterone and Your Libido

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/truth-testosterone-libido-185000725.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw&tsrc=twtr As an expert on andrology and sexual dysfunctions, urologist Andrew Y. Sun, M.D., sees plenty of patients who’re struggling with low libido. And most are pretty sure they already...

www.excelmale.com

The male sexual response cycle is complex and the exact role of testosterone in mediating libido, arousal, erection, ejaculation, and orgasm is multifactorial

*This hormone isn’t the only biological factor with clear, substantial power over our libidos

Everything is perfect except low libido

Started test 6 weeks ago. I feel great. Good sleep, good training, feeling good and so on. Was at 140 mg test and 500 iu hcg every week (EOD shots). I started to feel some pain in the chest and did a fast blood test to only check test and estradiol. Came back at 48nmol/l and 0.17 nmol/l (Do I...

www.excelmale.com

*Again having a healthy FT is only one piece of the puzzle as libido let alone ED are multifactorial.

*Getting quality sleep, minimizing stress (physical/mental), following a healthy diet, exercising/staying active, improving overall vascular health will have a far bigger impact than jacking up your trough FT!

*Have realistic expectations especially when it comes to libido and erectile function!

Testosterone and Sexual Function (ED)

You have been duped by the misinformed polluting those so called men's health forums! Again running those absurdly high trough/steady-state FT levels is not going to cure your ED let alone give you titanium erections! Having healthy hormones and maintaining vascular health is where it's at...

www.excelmale.com

* ED only occurs with very low testosterone levels

What to Do About Erectile Dysfunction

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/27/well/live/advice-erectile-dysfunction-treatment.html Sooner or later, most men will experience a problem achieving or maintaining an erection. But today, there are more treatments than ever. Erectile dysfunction is more common than one might think. More...

www.excelmale.com

Testosterone Replacement Therapy​

Low testosterone levels can decrease sex drive and lead to weak erections, though this is rarely the sole cause of erectile dysfunction. Over time, the hormone deficiency can cause penile tissues to atrophy, making erections even more difficult. The condition is easily treatable with testosterone replacement therapy, which can also improve the effectiveness of oral medications. But it’s important to work alongside a doctor to monitor the condition.

 

[madman]

My libido is generally through the roof. Your SHBG and estradiol levels on the Quest labs are what I typically see on my labs. The 53 estradiol would not lower my libido but would likely reduce penis sensitivity and make it harder to reach orgasm. Typically my estradiol is around 20-30. My SHBG is usually in the 40’s.

I have adjusted my testosterone cypionate dose up and down and my total testosterone has fallen in the same range as your Quest labs. However, my free testosterone has been in the 175-250 range.

I can’t explain why your numbers all look like mine except the free testosterone which is much lower.

After reading other comments I will add that my libido has been directly linked to my testosterone level. I fly level is high my libido is high. I have lowered my testosterone dose simply because when my testosterone level gets above a certain point my sex drive becomes almost uncontrollable.

I will also add that I don’t believe there is any problem with taking supplements. I take a lot of supplements.

I have never taken statins so I have no idea how that might affect libido

This means nothing unless you had your FT tested using the same method/assay.

Even then if your were hitting a similar TT/SHBG, (Albumin will not have a big impact) as the OP your cFTV level would be similar.

In order for one to truly compare labs you would need to use the same lab/same assay or cFT method.

 

[LionTamer]

@BJE @madman Thank you for your insights. Sorry it took some time to respond. Sometimes Excel Male sends me a notification; sometimes it doesn't.

By the way, one thing I've neglected to mention is that I've been in a caloric deficit for some time since I'm on a cut. In the past when I've cut, my libido would go down for about a week but then it would recover (while still on the cut). Also my libido has been fluctuating even before I was on a cut. Just putting it out there...

 

[FunkOdyssey]

@BJE @madman Thank you for your insights. Sorry it took some time to respond. Sometimes Excel Male sends me a notification; sometimes it doesn't.

By the way, one thing I've neglected to mention is that I've been in a caloric deficit for some time since I'm on a cut. In the past when I've cut, my libido would go down for about a week but then it would recover (while still on the cut). Also my libido has been fluctuating even before I was on a cut. Just putting it out there...

Did you stop the fish oil yet?

 

[LionTamer]

Did you stop the fish oil yet?

Not yet. I've been off the ozempic for maybe 1-2 weeks to see if that changes anything first. I'm also going to have a consultation with Dr. Rob Kominiarek. Hopefully he'll have some insights.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Not yet. I've been off the ozempic for maybe 1-2 weeks to see if that changes anything first. I'm also going to have a consultation with Dr. Rob Kominiarek. Hopefully he'll have some insights.

Even after I went to the trouble of making that fish oil meme pic to get the point across?

 

[Seagal]

Even after I went to the trouble of making that fish oil meme pic to get the point across?

View attachment 47353

You broke its neck

 

[Seagal]

Not yet. I've been off the ozempic for maybe 1-2 weeks to see if that changes anything first.

And has it changed anything?

I'm also going to have a consultation with Dr. Rob Kominiarek. Hopefully he'll have some insights.

Would lmao if he recommends to stop all the drugs and supplements.

 

[LionTamer]

And has it changed anything?


Would lmao if he recommends to stop all the drugs and supplements.

No change yet from the ozempic.

 

[LionTamer]

Even after I went to the trouble of making that fish oil meme pic to get the point across?

View attachment 47353

Well the idea is to start with with the medications that seem to have coincided with my drop in libido, which was ozempic. i'm not at all ruling it out, though, and will definitely give that a try should stopping the ozempic not work.

 

[Flyers74]

Hi,

Just wanted to chime in here since I've been battling my own issues like these for about the last 3 years, but my numbers are no where near yours, I actually found out when I started having similar issues my TT was around 250, and FT around 6-7. I wish I had some type of baseline to go against when I was in my 30s or 40s (just turned 50 now), but most docs seem to never think about checking hormones at all unless you ask for it.

Currently no idea as to why my TT is so low, whether it's just age, or was it always lower than normal my entire life, and has slowly been declining, or something drastically changed recently? no idea at this point, and I may never figure it out.

But one thing that did change is I decided to go on a statin (Crestor 10mg) daily around 3 years ago, after years and years of battling with high cholesterol, which sadly is in my family, 'Familial hypercholesterolemia', a genetic mutation that can be passed down. (Familial hypercholesterolemia: MedlinePlus Genetics)

I know there is a lot of controversy around statins and LDL, etc, and trust me I question it too. So I've been experimenting over the last 3 years going on and off it, taking blood results while doing different things, and making notes of how I feel, what my hormones do, etc, etc. I expermented with xyosted injections for about 5 mos or so, just to see what happened, which did push my TT up to 450, FT around 13. I did feel a bit more energetic and workouts were better, and also felt quite more sexual desire.

So I then went off for a few mos, checked blood again, to see my levels fall back to where they've been (ie around 220-280 is where they fluctuate). I went back to my urologist and asked to try clomid, wanted to see how that worked, and it too worked, pushed me back to the same 450/13 or so. Stopped that after about 4 mos, and checked blood, again went back to the usual levels.

Reason I bring all this up as you mentioned you've been on Statins for 5 years, and you've been battling high cholesterol, and you liked to eat. Do you have cholesterol issues in your family? ie do you think your high cholesterol is solely based on eating bad, or you may be fighting genetics?

Are you taking the fish oil because of it's benefits against bad cholesterol? or something else?
(my body on it's own produces way too much LDL, and I tried and tried many diet changes, supplements, etc but nothing really brought it down, only statins have made drastic reductions)

Oh, and the statins do bring down both my LDL and TRIG levels a ton, as well as improve my HDL levels. Do you have any bloodwork results from before you started statins? ie what did your lipid panel look like prior to any statin use?


I know there are many complex things that happen in our bodies with cholesterol, hormones, etc, so I still feel statins can really throw that off, and it could be that I was already 'on the edge' in regards to my hormones (ie with my low TT/FT), and the statins just pushed me over the cliff...
(like I said, this has all been an 'experiment' for me regarding statins, and I still my just stop them completely and get myself a cardiologist and actually check the health of my heart and vascular system)

if nothing else seems to be working with stopping other meds, you may just want to give it a whirl, and go off your statins for at least 6 months. I know this will push your cholesterol (lipid) panel back up, but it's certainly worth a shot if nothing else.

Also, one more thing, 'terrible sleep' was affecting me at the start of all this as well. Are you sleeping good? getting enough hours each night?

 

[Traderj]

Excellent discussion. I read it all the way through. And I am certainly not here to give anyone expert advice. But can only tell my own story. Beware of the Statins even with high cholesterol. There is no study linking Statins to any reduction in heart disease. It is based on flawed science of Dr. Ancel Keyes. And how he changed how we treat heart disease in America. Its a ugly story. And one we should all understand. So we don't get caught up in its ongoing damage to our health. Sites like these help us to understand and take charge of our own health. The Cholesterol Myth: Why This Science Is Flawed

I am 64 and I take 0 medications. Have no libido problems. In fact I have better libido than I did have in my 30's. No supplements. I feel good. Plenty of energy. I make sure I get outside in the sunlight every day. And other than an occasional sinus headache I have no health issues.

I commend you Lion Tamer for reporting your challenges. And I strongly suggest you look at Sammy's recommendations to stop all of this crazy chemical stuff and let your body recover. It doesn't appear that you are a sick person. No diabetes or metabolic disease or other chronic illnesses. This is good. And also a good reason to stop the exogenous chemicals unless it is absolutely necessary.

You can see that I did have low T problems a few years back and talked about them on this site. However all of this is gone. I addressed them. Without resorting to synthetic testosterone. I got lucky. Got off all prescription drugs and supplements. And I feel great.

I look at your list of drugs and supplements and I am amazed you are not feeling worse.

I say this not as a criticism but in empathy. There is a beautiful clean healthy world out there. Even in the US. And food is only a part of the puzzle. Blue light, mitochondria health. organic grass fed beef, wild caught seafood, non-gmo vegetables, clean non-fluoridated water.

Get to know local farmers at small farmers market. Another great hack. One of the best. I only know this because I am a fisherman. Go to the local coastal fishing port on the weekends. And find the fish cleaning tables where the sporting fishermen are cleaning their catch. And offer to buy some of their fresh fish from them. Many of them have more than they can eat or keep. You get to see the fish with the head on it. So you know exactly what species it is. And you also know for sure that this fish has never been frozen. Truly fresh. I promise you that this tastes nothing like the fish in the market.

 

[Systemlord]

Currently no idea as to why my TT is so low, whether it's just age, or was it always lower than normal my entire life, and has slowly been declining, or something drastically changed recently? no idea at this point, and I may never figure it out.

For some very low testosterone is actually normal, although these men are anomalies, outliers. I recall a member a few years ago who was 21 years old, was just checking his hormone levels out of curiosity and had a Total T at 158 ng/dL and was very muscular, healthy and didn’t have any symptoms.

I fall into this low Total T and low Free T asymptomatic group of men and it took me 7 years to figure it out. Recently I found out I’m like my father who has very low testosterone and is asymptomatic.

Maybe in the future will be able to check how sensitive we are to hormones at the receptor and tissue level, better able to determine what’s normal for a person.

 

[Gman86]

Hi,

Just wanted to chime in here since I've been battling my own issues like these for about the last 3 years, but my numbers are no where near yours, I actually found out when I started having similar issues my TT was around 250, and FT around 6-7. I wish I had some type of baseline to go against when I was in my 30s or 40s (just turned 50 now), but most docs seem to never think about checking hormones at all unless you ask for it.

Currently no idea as to why my TT is so low, whether it's just age, or was it always lower than normal my entire life, and has slowly been declining, or something drastically changed recently? no idea at this point, and I may never figure it out.

But one thing that did change is I decided to go on a statin (Crestor 10mg) daily around 3 years ago, after years and years of battling with high cholesterol, which sadly is in my family, 'Familial hypercholesterolemia', a genetic mutation that can be passed down. (Familial hypercholesterolemia: MedlinePlus Genetics)

I know there is a lot of controversy around statins and LDL, etc, and trust me I question it too. So I've been experimenting over the last 3 years going on and off it, taking blood results while doing different things, and making notes of how I feel, what my hormones do, etc, etc. I expermented with xyosted injections for about 5 mos or so, just to see what happened, which did push my TT up to 450, FT around 13. I did feel a bit more energetic and workouts were better, and also felt quite more sexual desire.

So I then went off for a few mos, checked blood again, to see my levels fall back to where they've been (ie around 220-280 is where they fluctuate). I went back to my urologist and asked to try clomid, wanted to see how that worked, and it too worked, pushed me back to the same 450/13 or so. Stopped that after about 4 mos, and checked blood, again went back to the usual levels.

Reason I bring all this up as you mentioned you've been on Statins for 5 years, and you've been battling high cholesterol, and you liked to eat. Do you have cholesterol issues in your family? ie do you think your high cholesterol is solely based on eating bad, or you may be fighting genetics?

Are you taking the fish oil because of it's benefits against bad cholesterol? or something else?
(my body on it's own produces way too much LDL, and I tried and tried many diet changes, supplements, etc but nothing really brought it down, only statins have made drastic reductions)

Oh, and the statins do bring down both my LDL and TRIG levels a ton, as well as improve my HDL levels. Do you have any bloodwork results from before you started statins? ie what did your lipid panel look like prior to any statin use?


I know there are many complex things that happen in our bodies with cholesterol, hormones, etc, so I still feel statins can really throw that off, and it could be that I was already 'on the edge' in regards to my hormones (ie with my low TT/FT), and the statins just pushed me over the cliff...
(like I said, this has all been an 'experiment' for me regarding statins, and I still my just stop them completely and get myself a cardiologist and actually check the health of my heart and vascular system)

if nothing else seems to be working with stopping other meds, you may just want to give it a whirl, and go off your statins for at least 6 months. I know this will push your cholesterol (lipid) panel back up, but it's certainly worth a shot if nothing else.

Also, one more thing, 'terrible sleep' was affecting me at the start of all this as well. Are you sleeping good? getting enough hours each night?

Not trying to get into a cholesterol debate or anything, but would u mind posting some of ur cholesterol labs prior to going on a statin? I’m really curious what a cholesterol panel of a person with familiar hypercholesterolemia looks like. HDL, LDL and triglyceride levels mostly. TIA

 

[Gman86]

Excellent discussion. I read it all the way through. And I am certainly not here to give anyone expert advice. But can only tell my own story. Beware of the Statins even with high cholesterol. There is no study linking Statins to any reduction in heart disease. It is based on flawed science of Dr. Ancel Keyes. And how he changed how we treat heart disease in America. Its a ugly story. And one we should all understand. So we don't get caught up in its ongoing damage to our health. Sites like these help us to understand and take charge of our own health. The Cholesterol Myth: Why This Science Is Flawed

I am 64 and I take 0 medications. Have no libido problems. In fact I have better libido than I did have in my 30's. No supplements. I feel good. Plenty of energy. I make sure I get outside in the sunlight every day. And other than an occasional sinus headache I have no health issues.

I commend you Lion Tamer for reporting your challenges. And I strongly suggest you look at Sammy's recommendations to stop all of this crazy chemical stuff and let your body recover. It doesn't appear that you are a sick person. No diabetes or metabolic disease or other chronic illnesses. This is good. And also a good reason to stop the exogenous chemicals unless it is absolutely necessary.

You can see that I did have low T problems a few years back and talked about them on this site. However all of this is gone. I addressed them. Without resorting to synthetic testosterone. I got lucky. Got off all prescription drugs and supplements. And I feel great.

I look at your list of drugs and supplements and I am amazed you are not feeling worse.

I say this not as a criticism but in empathy. There is a beautiful clean healthy world out there. Even in the US. And food is only a part of the puzzle. Blue light, mitochondria health. organic grass fed beef, wild caught seafood, non-gmo vegetables, clean non-fluoridated water.

Get to know local farmers at small farmers market. Another great hack. One of the best. I only know this because I am a fisherman. Go to the local coastal fishing port on the weekends. And find the fish cleaning tables where the sporting fishermen are cleaning their catch. And offer to buy some of their fresh fish from them. Many of them have more than they can eat or keep. You get to see the fish with the head on it. So you know exactly what species it is. And you also know for sure that this fish has never been frozen. Truly fresh. I promise you that this tastes nothing like the fish in the market.

Great anecdote and info! Other than the veggies I loved everything about it lol. Quick question, is it true that seafood isn’t supposed to really have that fishy smell to it? I’ve always heard that, and I have to know if it’s true or not lol. Like if u buy some fish from ur local grocery store chain, and it smells pretty damn fishy, is that not really what it smells like when it’s freshly caught and filleted, or fresh fish does actually smell pretty damn fishy as well? TIA

 

[Traderj]

Great anecdote and info! Other than the veggies I loved everything about it lol. Quick question, is it true that seafood isn’t supposed to really have that fishy smell to it? I’ve always heard that, and I have to know if it’s true or not lol. Like if u buy some fish from ur local grocery store chain, and it smells pretty damn fishy, is that not really what it smells like when it’s freshly caught and filleted, or fresh fish does actually smell pretty damn fishy as well? TIA

This is correct. Fish should not smell fishy. But when you are in a fish environment like a market. There are all kinds of byproducts and liquid and fish blood everywhere. And that stuff can get pretty ripe quickly. And the smell of this stuff is strong. So thats usually what you smell not the actual fish filet. But if you have a fresh piece of fish and its sitting on ice. And you cut into it. And smell the meat. It will have no fishy odor. If it does. Its already bad.

On the other hand. There is nothing as delicious as truly fresh fish that has never been frozen. If you are looking at fish and you want to know if its fresh. Smell is not the way. Look at the eyes of the fish. They should be clear. If they are cloudy. The fish is getting old. Or hasn't been preserved properly. Frozen fish can be good also. Certain species are better to freeze than others. Oily fish such as a Mackerel and Salmon get a more pungent taste after they have been frozen but they are delicious fresh. Find fish with the head on it. This way you can tell for yourself. Almost guarantee you that the fish you buy as a filet from the supermarket has already been frozen. And then thawed for display. And its likely that it is a different species than they tell you. Same in a restaurant. This is why they come up with such elaborate recipes such as blackening and other heavy spices and preparations. They are hiding the bad taste or bland taste of the frozen or old fish. Fresh fish needs very little help. Just like a delicious grass fed steak on the grill. The flavor is in the meat.

 

[LionTamer]

All, thanks for for the feedback. I'll report back after I got new labs and have discussed with Dr. Robert Kominiarek. Will keep everyone posted.