mods: please move this if it's in the wrong place.
summary: I used hCG monotherapy successfully to raise T in less than a month from a starting point of 298 total / 88 free to 693. I am 62 y.o.and had been diagnosed with secondary hypogonadism more than 20 years ago.
Although prescribed from diagnosis of hypoG, TRT (injections> patches>Androgel) gel was only used sporadically if at all since 2000 and not at all in the last 6 months. Throughout this period T was tested at least bi-annually and continuously returned as hypogonadal.
Noted here and elsewhere hCG has been used successfully with Novadex and Clomid to re-start the HPT axis in non-hypogonadal men as part of PCT. The goal here is to see what sustained natural T level can be obtained following a similar protocol and without T.
Help is sought on selection of tests, timing of tests and when or if SERMS should be added.
Dosing: The pkg insert suggested 4,000 IU 3 x weekly which was followed for eight weeks. In retrospect an initial dose of 600 to 2500 IU would likely have been more approriate. Unsurprisingly nipples became sensitized with increasing pain at week 6. Estradiol (standard) was checked for the first time at week 8 (6/09/15) and found to be high at 83. Treatment was suspended by pt for several weeks while Arimidex and smaller syringes were obtained and nipple pain receded.
From April 09 to June 09 100,000 IU total had been administered on the initial protocol (12,000 IU/wek) prior to treatment interption. Resumption of treatment was tried at 500 IU for a week and had no effect. 2,000 IU MWF seems to be the current minium effective dose to restore energy and positive outlook but no labs have been done since June 09.
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Hi, I'm really glad to have found this site. Empowered with knowledge I hope to turn around years of extremely poor management of hypoG which is just one complication from a complex underlying condition.
Please see the lab values posted in my profile. There are many more spanning decades but only one for E2 to my knowlege. Too bad these are not on a spread sheet but they can be manually researched.
For someone that does an extreme amount of research on line regarding health and diet I have no explanation for having remained so ignorant for so long on the basics of TRT and endocrinology. Until recently I actually believed the propaganda on T.
I was diagnosed with secondary hypoG many years ago which was attributed to either an underlying chronic infection or the meds prescribed to control it. HypoG was first treated by hCG then shots, then patches and finally Androgel when it was released in 2000. Although TRT was managed very poorly I managed to get by for years with a fairly active life through my 40's and 50's.
In 2005-2007 sports orthopedic injuries led to atrophy in my L quadriceps for which I pursued intensive physical therapy without result. Loss of muscle mass then spread. Neither I nor my doc made the endocrine connection.
I was was on Androgel and compliant at the time of PT but with no adequate labs being done. Nothing more than total T was ever assayed. Serum goals were not discussed. Physical therapy failure was blamed entirely on the underlying condition.
I became increasingly inactive. In 2011 I moved to a rural location with the expectation of more outdoor rec opportunity. That never materialized. If my care was poor before, now it was in the dark ages.
Through ignorance both on my part and the doctors treating me I reached unprecedented lows by February 2015 with disabling fatigue, low motivation, severe mental fog and more. Oddly ED and libido were rarely issues. This may have been due to a high T/Free ratio of 3.4 when last measured in Feb prior to beginning hCG. A medication I had been on since the late 90's was known to cause depression, metabolic disorders and bone loss. I blamed everything on this med not hormone levels.
The only testing done through my new primary care doc was pretty much at my insistence. By February we had ruled out cardio vascular issues and just about everything else. The results of many tests were considered "unremarkable". According to him T ~ 300 was just fine. His attitude became one that I need to go to a shrink. That really pissed me off. There was too much physical malaise to blame it all on psyc but I still wasn't considering endocrine issues.
My first experience at treating the hypoG had been decades ago. hCG had been the very first treatment. I recalled how well hCG had made me feel, better than I'd ever felt on all subsequent TRT, and became intent on trying it again. I was finally able to get in to see an endo in Feb 2015. After some testing, which did not include everything recommended here, he put me on hCG starting in April per the pkg insert: 4,000 IU 3 times weekly. I knew enough that this seemed high and subsequently found myself here on Excelmale.
I understand that hCG mono is not regarded as a long term solution here but I do hold out hope that diet and lifestyle changes might allow me to remain off TRT. I am prepared to go cyp+hGc if necessary. As of June I am finally off the metabolic destroying med that I had been on since the late 90's.
Gynocomasty has been an issue for me on and off over the years. It has been connected to my underlying condition as well as the metabolic killing drug. Therefore I was not surprised to see it flare up on hCG. I asked for and received Arimidex but so far have only taken less than one mg total in .25mg doses. I'm not sure what dose to take but it seems that .25mg 2x week 24hs following hCG might be appropriate.
I am here for review of labs and discuss options as I learn more.
summary: I used hCG monotherapy successfully to raise T in less than a month from a starting point of 298 total / 88 free to 693. I am 62 y.o.and had been diagnosed with secondary hypogonadism more than 20 years ago.
Although prescribed from diagnosis of hypoG, TRT (injections> patches>Androgel) gel was only used sporadically if at all since 2000 and not at all in the last 6 months. Throughout this period T was tested at least bi-annually and continuously returned as hypogonadal.
Noted here and elsewhere hCG has been used successfully with Novadex and Clomid to re-start the HPT axis in non-hypogonadal men as part of PCT. The goal here is to see what sustained natural T level can be obtained following a similar protocol and without T.
Help is sought on selection of tests, timing of tests and when or if SERMS should be added.
Dosing: The pkg insert suggested 4,000 IU 3 x weekly which was followed for eight weeks. In retrospect an initial dose of 600 to 2500 IU would likely have been more approriate. Unsurprisingly nipples became sensitized with increasing pain at week 6. Estradiol (standard) was checked for the first time at week 8 (6/09/15) and found to be high at 83. Treatment was suspended by pt for several weeks while Arimidex and smaller syringes were obtained and nipple pain receded.
From April 09 to June 09 100,000 IU total had been administered on the initial protocol (12,000 IU/wek) prior to treatment interption. Resumption of treatment was tried at 500 IU for a week and had no effect. 2,000 IU MWF seems to be the current minium effective dose to restore energy and positive outlook but no labs have been done since June 09.
---
Hi, I'm really glad to have found this site. Empowered with knowledge I hope to turn around years of extremely poor management of hypoG which is just one complication from a complex underlying condition.
Please see the lab values posted in my profile. There are many more spanning decades but only one for E2 to my knowlege. Too bad these are not on a spread sheet but they can be manually researched.
For someone that does an extreme amount of research on line regarding health and diet I have no explanation for having remained so ignorant for so long on the basics of TRT and endocrinology. Until recently I actually believed the propaganda on T.
I was diagnosed with secondary hypoG many years ago which was attributed to either an underlying chronic infection or the meds prescribed to control it. HypoG was first treated by hCG then shots, then patches and finally Androgel when it was released in 2000. Although TRT was managed very poorly I managed to get by for years with a fairly active life through my 40's and 50's.
In 2005-2007 sports orthopedic injuries led to atrophy in my L quadriceps for which I pursued intensive physical therapy without result. Loss of muscle mass then spread. Neither I nor my doc made the endocrine connection.
I was was on Androgel and compliant at the time of PT but with no adequate labs being done. Nothing more than total T was ever assayed. Serum goals were not discussed. Physical therapy failure was blamed entirely on the underlying condition.
I became increasingly inactive. In 2011 I moved to a rural location with the expectation of more outdoor rec opportunity. That never materialized. If my care was poor before, now it was in the dark ages.
Through ignorance both on my part and the doctors treating me I reached unprecedented lows by February 2015 with disabling fatigue, low motivation, severe mental fog and more. Oddly ED and libido were rarely issues. This may have been due to a high T/Free ratio of 3.4 when last measured in Feb prior to beginning hCG. A medication I had been on since the late 90's was known to cause depression, metabolic disorders and bone loss. I blamed everything on this med not hormone levels.
The only testing done through my new primary care doc was pretty much at my insistence. By February we had ruled out cardio vascular issues and just about everything else. The results of many tests were considered "unremarkable". According to him T ~ 300 was just fine. His attitude became one that I need to go to a shrink. That really pissed me off. There was too much physical malaise to blame it all on psyc but I still wasn't considering endocrine issues.
My first experience at treating the hypoG had been decades ago. hCG had been the very first treatment. I recalled how well hCG had made me feel, better than I'd ever felt on all subsequent TRT, and became intent on trying it again. I was finally able to get in to see an endo in Feb 2015. After some testing, which did not include everything recommended here, he put me on hCG starting in April per the pkg insert: 4,000 IU 3 times weekly. I knew enough that this seemed high and subsequently found myself here on Excelmale.
I understand that hCG mono is not regarded as a long term solution here but I do hold out hope that diet and lifestyle changes might allow me to remain off TRT. I am prepared to go cyp+hGc if necessary. As of June I am finally off the metabolic destroying med that I had been on since the late 90's.
Gynocomasty has been an issue for me on and off over the years. It has been connected to my underlying condition as well as the metabolic killing drug. Therefore I was not surprised to see it flare up on hCG. I asked for and received Arimidex but so far have only taken less than one mg total in .25mg doses. I'm not sure what dose to take but it seems that .25mg 2x week 24hs following hCG might be appropriate.
I am here for review of labs and discuss options as I learn more.
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