Hey guys, been a lurker on the forums while going through my TRT journey for the last 6 months but things haven't worked out how I'd hoped and I need some advice. I'll keep my story as short as I can, there's a TLDR at the bottom for those that don't have the time to read but would appreciate if you could.
I'm a 27 year old guy, fairly active (work as a builder and lift 3x a week) and live in the UK
Since the age of 16 I have experienced problems with anxiety, depression and insomnia, over the years I've seen counselors, been prescribed anti-depressants and made serious efforts at lifestyle changes to make sure I was as healthy as possible but none of it ever made a long-lasting difference.
Fast forward to April 2017 and in a desperate attempt to find an answer I ask my Doc to check my testosterone - it was low:
TT: 9.9 nmol/L (8.4-28.7)
E2: 168 pmol/L (0-145)
FSH: 3.4 IU/L (1.4-18.1)
LH: 2.9 IU/L (1.5 - 9.3)
I was referred to a specialist who confirmed my levels were too low for a man of my age and arranged for an MRI scan of my pituitary - negative. I was then prescribed clomiphene 50mg EOD.
After a week on clomid I felt great, mood was elevated, morning wood and libido were back for the first time in years and I was feeling like a real man. Continued to feel great that week then it all went away and I started to become emotional and depressed, the insomnia was back and I was struggling at work.
Next bloods:
TT: 38.9
E2 250
Zinc 9.52 umol/L (11-24)
Vit D 84 nmol/L (75-200)
As suspected my E2 had gone through the roof, Doc prescribed Anastrazole but I could not get back to that feeling I had. I decided to switch to T injections. New protocol was:
125mg Sustanon 250 E7D
500 IU HCG E4D
Anastrazole 0.5mg E4D
After 2 months sleep became better and I noticed more muscle definition but I still felt depressed, libido was gone and I had no drive. Next bloods came in:
TT: 32 nmol/L (8.4-28.7)
Free T: 0.817 nmol/L (0.174 -0.729)
SHGB: 26.6 nmol/L (14.6-94.6)
E2: 156 pmol/L (0-145)
Prolactin: 162 mIU/L (45-375)
I decided the T was not helping and stopped. I continued my HCG at 150IU per day SC injection, 4 weeks in and my mood was much better as was sleep, no libido increase. Next bloods:
TT: 13.2
E2: 70
I felt pretty good on this dose and was told by various people it was because my E2 was finally down. I decided to raise T with 40mg sust injection 2x per week SC (to reduce T>E2 conversion). Around 4 hours after my injection I got extreme fatigue, I could not think straight and had to go to my car to sleep, depression became worse. Interestingly libido made a small comeback and was experiencing morning woods again a week after the jab.
Since then I have not taken any more Sustanon but remained on HCG 150IU ED and AI 0.5mg EOD. My depression has been pretty bad over Christmas and I just don't know which way to turn.
In an ideal world I would like to attempt a PCT with clomid then try to raise my T levels naturally. I am, for whatever reason, a high aromatiser so perhaps if I could correct the high E2 my natural T levels would rise?
My concern with this approach is that it will take months to complete a PCT and I'm not sure how much I could realistically raise my natural T levels considering I was pretty active, had low BF and ate well before I started TRT. However I think I may have been over-training, was very stressed at work and was doing a lot of endurance running when I got my first bloods, all of these things I know can suppress T. Then I remember that I've suffered many of these symptoms from an early age and had fractured my skull twice as a child, maybe my pituitary is just irreversibly damaged and a natural rise is unrealistic?
Then again my Zinc and Vit D were also low which can cause a drop in T. I have been supplementing since but maybe there's a gut absorption issue?
Or maybe I just didn't agree with sustanon 250?
The other option is try another type of TRT. Dr Shippen recommends an approach which best simulates the body's natural production with daily gels, 150IU HCG daily, a DHEA supplement and an AI to control aromatase. This may be a good option for me as large inputs of T = Large E2 spike but I'm uncomfortable committing to a lifetime of medications.
I really don't which way to turn at this stage and would love to hear your experiences and advice, especially from people that have tried to raise their T naturally. I've read a lot of info online about how to naturally raise T but they're always aimed at guys who have poor lifestyles - not lifting, bad diet, overweight etc.
TLDR: Tried various TRT methods to correct High T, Low E but symptoms never improved greatly for any length of time. High E2 levels seem to be a problem for me. Not sure if I should try to raise T and lower E2 naturally or try a different protocol.
Any info you can give would be a massive help to me
I'm a 27 year old guy, fairly active (work as a builder and lift 3x a week) and live in the UK
Since the age of 16 I have experienced problems with anxiety, depression and insomnia, over the years I've seen counselors, been prescribed anti-depressants and made serious efforts at lifestyle changes to make sure I was as healthy as possible but none of it ever made a long-lasting difference.
Fast forward to April 2017 and in a desperate attempt to find an answer I ask my Doc to check my testosterone - it was low:
TT: 9.9 nmol/L (8.4-28.7)
E2: 168 pmol/L (0-145)
FSH: 3.4 IU/L (1.4-18.1)
LH: 2.9 IU/L (1.5 - 9.3)
I was referred to a specialist who confirmed my levels were too low for a man of my age and arranged for an MRI scan of my pituitary - negative. I was then prescribed clomiphene 50mg EOD.
After a week on clomid I felt great, mood was elevated, morning wood and libido were back for the first time in years and I was feeling like a real man. Continued to feel great that week then it all went away and I started to become emotional and depressed, the insomnia was back and I was struggling at work.
Next bloods:
TT: 38.9
E2 250
Zinc 9.52 umol/L (11-24)
Vit D 84 nmol/L (75-200)
As suspected my E2 had gone through the roof, Doc prescribed Anastrazole but I could not get back to that feeling I had. I decided to switch to T injections. New protocol was:
125mg Sustanon 250 E7D
500 IU HCG E4D
Anastrazole 0.5mg E4D
After 2 months sleep became better and I noticed more muscle definition but I still felt depressed, libido was gone and I had no drive. Next bloods came in:
TT: 32 nmol/L (8.4-28.7)
Free T: 0.817 nmol/L (0.174 -0.729)
SHGB: 26.6 nmol/L (14.6-94.6)
E2: 156 pmol/L (0-145)
Prolactin: 162 mIU/L (45-375)
I decided the T was not helping and stopped. I continued my HCG at 150IU per day SC injection, 4 weeks in and my mood was much better as was sleep, no libido increase. Next bloods:
TT: 13.2
E2: 70
I felt pretty good on this dose and was told by various people it was because my E2 was finally down. I decided to raise T with 40mg sust injection 2x per week SC (to reduce T>E2 conversion). Around 4 hours after my injection I got extreme fatigue, I could not think straight and had to go to my car to sleep, depression became worse. Interestingly libido made a small comeback and was experiencing morning woods again a week after the jab.
Since then I have not taken any more Sustanon but remained on HCG 150IU ED and AI 0.5mg EOD. My depression has been pretty bad over Christmas and I just don't know which way to turn.
In an ideal world I would like to attempt a PCT with clomid then try to raise my T levels naturally. I am, for whatever reason, a high aromatiser so perhaps if I could correct the high E2 my natural T levels would rise?
My concern with this approach is that it will take months to complete a PCT and I'm not sure how much I could realistically raise my natural T levels considering I was pretty active, had low BF and ate well before I started TRT. However I think I may have been over-training, was very stressed at work and was doing a lot of endurance running when I got my first bloods, all of these things I know can suppress T. Then I remember that I've suffered many of these symptoms from an early age and had fractured my skull twice as a child, maybe my pituitary is just irreversibly damaged and a natural rise is unrealistic?
Then again my Zinc and Vit D were also low which can cause a drop in T. I have been supplementing since but maybe there's a gut absorption issue?
Or maybe I just didn't agree with sustanon 250?
The other option is try another type of TRT. Dr Shippen recommends an approach which best simulates the body's natural production with daily gels, 150IU HCG daily, a DHEA supplement and an AI to control aromatase. This may be a good option for me as large inputs of T = Large E2 spike but I'm uncomfortable committing to a lifetime of medications.
I really don't which way to turn at this stage and would love to hear your experiences and advice, especially from people that have tried to raise their T naturally. I've read a lot of info online about how to naturally raise T but they're always aimed at guys who have poor lifestyles - not lifting, bad diet, overweight etc.
TLDR: Tried various TRT methods to correct High T, Low E but symptoms never improved greatly for any length of time. High E2 levels seem to be a problem for me. Not sure if I should try to raise T and lower E2 naturally or try a different protocol.
Any info you can give would be a massive help to me
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