“Cycling” for the sweet spot.

[TLR]

I'm about two weeks along on the scrotal cream. One click (50 mg) in the morning. As I stated in a previous post libido and erections have upticked. Biggest issue is every afternoon I get a hyped up feeling. Can hear and feel my heartbeat and get a restless, hot feeling. From what I can find T levels peak about two hours post application and DHT peaks about 4-5 hrs. This matches with the time in the afternoon I get the "meth rush." This happened before when I tried the cream, but it was worse because I started out at 2 clicks twice daily. It has slowly subsided somewhat, and Im hoping my body settles in because otherwise I like it. I haven't done any bloodwork, Im just going by feel and symptoms until I get stabilized. I guess my "delicate disposition" is a little sensitive to the DHT, but like I said it seems to have gotten better. BP and pulse rate stay good, its just the "feeling" that hits more than anything. Stay tuned........

 

[Cataceous]

If someone could create an ester with a 10-12 hour half life I truly believe it would work. ...

Testosterone acetate might be like that, though it's too hard to get. It may be possible to create a similar effect with a combination of propionate and ester-less testosterone (TNE).

 

[Gman86]

Where are you getting that idea from? I tried transcrotal cream with and without concurrent injections for several years and never got a boost in libido from it.

I was just going by all the anectodal reports I’ve seen. I’ve never tried it myself, so I’m not sure how good it really is for libido or not. Just seems that the majority of guys that try it report an increased libido over other methods.

 

[Gman86]

I'm about two weeks along on the scrotal cream. One click (50 mg) in the morning. As I stated in a previous post libido and erections have upticked. Biggest issue is every afternoon I get a hyped up feeling. Can hear and feel my heartbeat and get a restless, hot feeling. From what I can find T levels peak about two hours post application and DHT peaks about 4-5 hrs. This matches with the time in the afternoon I get the "meth rush." This happened before when I tried the cream, but it was worse because I started out at 2 clicks twice daily. It has slowly subsided somewhat, and Im hoping my body settles in because otherwise I like it. I haven't done any bloodwork, Im just going by feel and symptoms until I get stabilized. I guess my "delicate disposition" is a little sensitive to the DHT, but like I said it seems to have gotten better. BP and pulse rate stay good, its just the "feeling" that hits more than anything. Stay tuned........

So only one click per day huh? Are your plans to start low, get lab work done and titrate up if needed? Never saw someone only take one click per day before while using transscrotal cream

 

[fifty]

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50mg is not that low of a dose. Also depends how accurately dosed your cream is. Probably a crapshoot there.

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[camygod]

Testosterone acetate might be like that, though it's too hard to get. It may be possible to create a similar effect with a combination of propionate and ester-less testosterone (TNE).

what dose of each would you think would work
also I'm able to get hold of micronized test suspensions supposedly is in your system for 2 days do you think that's bullshit or not?

 

[TLR]

So only one click per day huh? Are your plans to start low, get lab work done and titrate up if needed? Never saw someone only take one click per day before while using transscrotal cream

Yeah.....I started with the lowest and will go up as needed, providing everything settles in. On injections I typically do best on a lower dose 2x week. I've just never felt good with my levels on the higher end. Transdermal could be a different animal, but I didn't fare well last time when I started with a high dose. Want to give it a full chance to work if its going to so I'm starting low and going slow. I've quit TRT cold turkey once and tried a Clomid restart in the past, and by this point I was already feeling a little sluggish in the gym and fatigued. I'm not feeling that at all right now and am actually in the mood for sex a little more so I've got to be getting something out of it. I am purposely avoiding bloodwork on this experiment until I get to a point where I feel better if that's going to happen. Gives me one less thing to obsess over.

 

[Cataceous]

what dose of each would you think would work
also I'm able to get hold of micronized test suspensions supposedly is in your system for 2 days do you think that's bullshit or not?

Good information is lacking. With respect to testosterone suspensions, I think there's only one equine study showing surprising longevity for a form not protected by an ester. That may not have been micronized.

In experimenting, I would start with the assumption that the ester-less forms would be gone in a day. This means a base serum testosterone should be established with something longer acting, such as daily testosterone propionate, or less frequent testosterone cypionate. I'd aim for the base to be 50% of one's normal dose of testosterone. For example, suppose that one's normal protocol is 20 T cypionate EOD, which gives serum testosterone of 800 ng/dL. Then the experiment is to cut that to 10 mg T cypionate EOD and make up the difference in ester-less testosterone, which is this case is 3.5 mg daily. The ester-less testosterone would be taken as early in the morning as possible. This establishes a floor so serum testosterone doesn't go below 400 ng/dL.

If lab testing suggests that the ester-less testosterone is lasting longer than a day then its fraction could be increased.

 

[camygod]

Good information is lacking. With respect to testosterone suspensions, I think there's only one equine study showing surprising longevity for a form not protected by an ester. That may not have been micronized.

In experimenting, I would start with the assumption that the ester-less forms would be gone in a day. This means a base serum testosterone should be established with something longer acting, such as daily testosterone propionate, or less frequent testosterone cypionate. I'd aim for the base to be 50% of one's normal dose of testosterone. For example, suppose that one's normal protocol is 20 T cypionate EOD, which gives serum testosterone of 800 ng/dL. Then the experiment is to cut that to 10 mg T cypionate EOD and make up the difference in ester-less testosterone, which is this case is 3.5 mg daily. The ester-less testosterone would be taken as early in the morning as possible. This establishes a floor so serum testosterone doesn't go below 400 ng/dL.

If lab testing suggests that the ester-less testosterone is lasting longer than a day then its fraction could be increased.

i have actully read a few reports of men using test suppension only as trt one even doing eod and they seemed to feel good of course they got shot down but my most but i like to keep a open mind
even if it only last one day im sure its longer than the supposed 4 hours or needing to injcet twice daily

 

[Cataceous]

i have actully read a few reports of men using test suppension only as trt one even doing eod and they seemed to feel good of course they got shot down but my most but i like to keep a open mind
even if it only last one day im sure its longer than the supposed 4 hours or needing to injcet twice daily

I've been playing around with testosterone in oil, adding it in varying amounts, and liking the results. But I haven't been systematic enough about it to draw any firm conclusions. It would be interesting to use it exclusively for a few days to see where pre-injection T/E2 end up. It'll be on my to-do list.

 

[camygod]

I've been playing around with testosterone in oil, adding it in varying amounts, and liking the results. But I haven't been systematic enough about it to draw any firm conclusions. It would be interesting to use it exclusively for a few days to see where pre-injection T/E2 end up. It'll be on my to-do list.

Test base in oil
would you think if your using prop too its better to do every day with it too or eod not that you have all the answers it just seems my libdo is better with slight fluctiations than a constant level thats one of the reasons i dont like cyip as very hard to adjust due to long half life i hoenslty think there is somthing about the short or ester lest testorone and maybe thats why the cream seems to work so well for "most" men?

 

[fifty]

Many guys like propionate on paper.... till they try it.

 

[camygod]

and many guys seem to not do well with cyp or enthante i know every one says "test is test" but i think diffrent people react to diffrent esters better than others

 

[Cataceous]

... Libido has been elusive from the beginning and has at no point ever been even 30% consistently of what natural was. This has been my biggest hurdle and unfortunately this is a big problem for many guys on TRT. Something happens once shutting down the hormonal pathways that no amount of tinkering can overcome and I'm absolutely convinced of this. Hard to ignore the elephant in the room but TRT simply does not work in a larger percentage of men. Sorta like the analogy of a dog chasing it's tail.

On the one hand, there's definitely some truth here: maintaining decent libido does seem to be a challenge for many on TRT. I've experienced this and continue to "tinker" to improve things. But on the other hand, saying "TRT simply does not work" is way too pessimistic. I must repeat that I am worlds ahead of how I was when hypogonadal. Back then my libido was only marginally better, but low T meant ED, dysphoria, dehydration issues, sleep problems, depression, etc. I feel great now in comparison. The improvements are not all from TRT, but needing TRT triggered the whole process, which included finding and acting on the collective wisdom in sites like this and PeakTestosterone.

 

[fifty]

and many guys seem to not do well with cyp or enthante i know every one says "test is test" but i think diffrent people react to diffrent esters better than others

True. Also, I agree with you on the fluctuation thoughts.

 

[Cataceous]

Test base in oil
would you think if your using prop too its better to do every day with it too or eod not that you have all the answers it just seems my libdo is better with slight fluctiations than a constant level thats one of the reasons i dont like cyip as very hard to adjust due to long half life i hoenslty think there is somthing about the short or ester lest testorone and maybe thats why the cream seems to work so well for "most" men?

I think propionate and TNE should be used daily. The idea is to mimic a natural diurnal rhythm. Propionate may or may not provide much daily variation on its own. As you imply, the big advantage with propionate is that you don't have to wait weeks to stabilize after making changes.

and many guys seem to not do well with cyp or enthante i know every one says "test is test" but i think diffrent people react to diffrent esters better than others

Testosterone is testosterone, but the rate of absorption is directly controlling our free testosterone, so different esters can cause different subjective outcomes.

 

[camygod]

i think there might be somthing to the 3 weeks upward cycle if i can get my hand on test base i might try it until they realse a device wich can give us a legit daily flutctions
i also wonder as many gurus say they feel better running what i see as superphysiological dosage of cream or injections if this is best ? many have bodies that in my opinon look unintainable even for young natrual men
did natrual test really go up to 1500ng/dl natrual for some men ? i wonder.....

 

[Cataceous]

...
i also wonder as many gurus say they feel better running what i see as superphysiological dosage of cream or injections if this is best ? many have bodies that in my opinon look unintainable even for young natrual men
did natrual test really go up to 1500ng/dl natrual for some men ? i wonder.....

Personally I'd be uneasy about long-term supraphysiological levels. Maybe it's pretty safe if they're monitoring all the appropriate blood parameters, but there are still enough unknowns that I don't want to be one of the guinea pigs.

Natural testosterone of 1,500 ng/dL is very rare. It probably requires both excellent production capacity and very high SHBG.

 

[Gman86]

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50mg is not that low of a dose. Also depends how accurately dosed your cream is. Probably a crapshoot there.

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Maybe you’re right, maybe 50mg once per day is enough for some guys. I know dr Nichols starts guys off at 2 clicks twice per day transscrotally, for a total of 200mg/ day. Was also listening to the TOT roundtable, and the lifting dermatologist guy uses 3 clicks twice per day, transscrotally, for a total of 300mg/ day, and the other doctor on there uses 2-3 clicks twice per day, transscrotally, he said. So I just assumed 50mg once per day is a low dose with transscrotal cream.

 

[Gman86]

Yeah.....I started with the lowest and will go up as needed, providing everything settles in. On injections I typically do best on a lower dose 2x week. I've just never felt good with my levels on the higher end. Transdermal could be a different animal, but I didn't fare well last time when I started with a high dose. Want to give it a full chance to work if its going to so I'm starting low and going slow. I've quit TRT cold turkey once and tried a Clomid restart in the past, and by this point I was already feeling a little sluggish in the gym and fatigued. I'm not feeling that at all right now and am actually in the mood for sex a little more so I've got to be getting something out of it. I am purposely avoiding bloodwork on this experiment until I get to a point where I feel better if that's going to happen. Gives me one less thing to obsess over.

Love the way you’re going about this. Really hope you see success. I’m optimistic that you will.