Testosterone Cypionate and Nandrolone Decanoate

HSLD said:

I went through this several times with nandrolone. Admittedly, with each trial of nandrolone my test dose was such that my E2 was already high before adding nandrolone. Interestingly, each time I have added nandrolone I always feel fantastic for the first week or two. Then at about 3 or 4 weeks, I start to get intrusive thoughts, etc. Nothing psycho, but just irrational jealousies and insecurities. At that point I discontinue nandrolone, and gradually things go back to normal in several weeks.

Something I would like to try would be to either significantly reduce my test dose, then add a low dose of nandrolone, or try the nandrolone based protocol that you have discussed here (though I have my concerns about the long term viability of such a protocol).

Click to expand...

CKO said:

Hilarious and accurate description. Irrational insecurities and jealousy hits me pretty bad with nandrolone. I have to take less than 50mg a week and take a week off every couple months to avoid.

I tried running nandrolone solo and with a low dose test cyp. My motivation went to zero, so that's not for me either.

Click to expand...

HSLD said:

I went through this several times with nandrolone. Admittedly, with each trial of nandrolone my test dose was such that my E2 was already high before adding nandrolone. Interestingly, each time I have added nandrolone I always feel fantastic for the first week or two. Then at about 3 or 4 weeks, I start to get intrusive thoughts, etc. Nothing psycho, but just irrational jealousies and insecurities. At that point I discontinue nandrolone, and gradually things go back to normal in several weeks.

Something I would like to try would be to either significantly reduce my test dose, then add a low dose of nandrolone, or try the nandrolone based protocol that you have discussed here (though I have my concerns about the long term viability of such a protocol).

Click to expand...

Gman86 said:

Were u using deca or NPP?

And what dosages of test and nandrolone were u using each time u tried the combo?

What are ur concerns, in regards to the long term viability of a nandrolone base, with low dose test?

Click to expand...

Gman86 said:

Sounds like everything is going pretty well for u, so if u can get some joint pain reduction from the nandrolone, and notice no other changes, I’d say that’s a win!

Click to expand...

USMC said:

Welp, this all started as a "log," so listing the good and bad for information:

I'm thinking I shouldn't have added the Adex to the mix. I'm having a slight issue with maintaining an erection Without testing, I'm just guessing but I think my estradiol has tanked. Some muscle and joint pain along with the above. Or, could it be the "decadick?" I'm doubting that as my 2:1 protocol is supposed to prevent that.. right? I'm stopping the Adex and will report back.

Click to expand...

Gman86 said:

1.5mg of adex per week is way too high, imo. I personally don’t mess with AI’s at all anymore, simply because I could never get consistently dialed in on them. And that included EQ. It was just not reliable what I was gonna consistently get. But I did use them for years. Adex and exemestane. Have had more labs on them than I can count. And throughout the time I was on them, I realized they are really powerful. 1.5mg of adex per week would crush most people’s E2. Men on HRT, at least. I would say the average dose, that would work for most men on HRT, if the need it, would be around 0.5mg/ week. So either drop it completely, which I would probably recommend, or lower it dose to around 0.5mg/ week, or less. I always advocate for using DHT derivatives, to control estrogen, over AI’s tho. Things always feel way more consistent, using dht derivatives, vs AI’s, to control estrogen

One of the reasons I switched to a nandrolone based protocol is so I didn’t have to use anything to control estrogen. To control estrogen, on a nandrolone base, all u have to do is increase or decrease ur test dose. Doing that is what controls ur E2, DHT and prolactin levels. Which is nice, because there’s no need for AI’s, 5ar enzyme inhibitors, and/ or prolactin controlling meds

Click to expand...

USMC said:

Yep, great stuff! Such a learning curve. I'm going to drop it completely! Lesson learned How long before estradiol comes back? Days, weeks, months?

Click to expand...

Seagal said:

Seems you are more of a hands-on guy. Be more careful in future. I once thought to just give deca base a try. Big mistake for me; took me almost two weeks with proviron to get my 'androgens' back to feel normal again.

Click to expand...

USMC said:

Yeah, there is so much info to weed through. Some of which works for some, and not for others. I've read that an AI is needed on my protocol, and I've read that an AI isn't. So for "safety," I figured I would add it Looking back I see that those that use an AI are also using MUCH higher doses than I am. Hoping my mistake helps others that are traversing this road.

Click to expand...

Gman86 said:

1.5mg of adex per week is way too high, imo. I personally don’t mess with AI’s at all anymore, simply because I could never get consistently dialed in on them. And that included EQ. It was just not reliable what I was gonna consistently get. But I did use them for years. Adex and exemestane. Have had more labs on them than I can count. And throughout the time I was on them, I realized they are really powerful. 1.5mg of adex per week would crush most people’s E2. Men on HRT, at least. I would say the average dose, that would work for most men on HRT, if the need it, would be around 0.5mg/ week. So either drop it completely, which I would probably recommend, or lower it dose to around 0.5mg/ week, or less. I always advocate for using DHT derivatives, to control estrogen, over AI’s tho. Things always feel way more consistent, using dht derivatives, vs AI’s, to control estrogen

One of the reasons I switched to a nandrolone based protocol is so I didn’t have to use anything to control estrogen. To control estrogen, on a nandrolone base, all u have to do is increase or decrease ur test dose. Doing that is what controls ur E2, DHT and prolactin levels. Which is nice, because there’s no need for AI’s, 5ar enzyme inhibitors, and/ or prolactin controlling meds

Click to expand...

USMC said:

Was readying your other post and I may try reversing and making Nandrolone my base. Say 200 ND and 80 Test C.. No AI needed but do you worry about Progesterone?

Click to expand...

USMC said:

Yep, great stuff! Such a learning curve. I'm going to drop it completely! Lesson learned How long before estradiol comes back? Days, weeks, months?

Click to expand...

Gman86 said:

Definitely start way lower with ur test dose. U don’t want to overshoot ur sweetspot for E2, dht and prolactin. Starting too high and overshooting the sweetspot with everything is one of the worst mistakes u can make, with any protocol. I would recommend starting with nandrolone at 200, and test around 20mg/ week. 30mg at most.

And I don’t worry about prog, on a nandrolone base, but I do think about it a lot. I just wish we knew, definitively, how progestins reacted with actual prog receptors. Maybe the info is out there, I’ve just never come across it, or have found anyone that definitively knows. Like does it act on the prog receptor similar to bio-identical prog? Does it fill the prog receptors, but not carry out the actions that bio-identical prog does, and also block bio-identical prog from getting into the prog receptors? I want answers to these questions more than u could imagine! lol. What I do know, is some guys feel way better on a nandrolone base, than on a test best, which is why I don’t worry too much about it. Whatever is actually going on, seems to work well for some guys, and I think it’s important to listen to the body. If u feel and function good, in all areas, that’s probably a good sign that things in ur body are working well. Obv there’s exceptions to this. Like if a bodybuilder is on 1000mg of gear, and feels awesome, that doesn’t necessarily mean his body is in a state of optimal health. But in general, I personally don’t worry too much about prog, on a nandrolone base, if everything is going well subjectively and objectively.

And ya, that’s the best part of a nandrolone base. Instead of getting ur androgens up with exogenous test, and then possibly needing to lower E2, dht, and/ or prolactin, while trying to keep androgens the same, it’s the opposite with a nandrolone base. U keep androgens high with the nandrolone, and then u have to raise up ur E2, dht and prolactin, with the test. But it’s awesome, because all ur androgen needs are covered with the nandrolone, so u simply start as low as possible with the test, and titrate it up until u find ur sweetspot. And test is bio-identical, no need to worry about sides from it. Unlike meds that one would need to take to lower E2, dht, and/or prolactin, such as AI’s, 5ar enzyme inhibitors, and meds to lower prolactin, such as cabergoline, pramipexole and bromocriptine.

Click to expand...

Mr_Fusion said:

I am very interested in staring a nandrolone base and you seem quite knowledgable on the subject. What would be a good expectation for my total-t level to look like at 200mg nandrolone/20mg test per week?

Click to expand...

Gman86 said:

Definitely start way lower with ur test dose. U don’t want to overshoot ur sweetspot for E2, dht and prolactin. Starting too high and overshooting the sweetspot with everything is one of the worst mistakes u can make, with any protocol. I would recommend starting with nandrolone at 200, and test around 20mg/ week. 30mg at most.

And I don’t worry about prog, on a nandrolone base, but I do think about it a lot. I just wish we knew, definitively, how progestins reacted with actual prog receptors. Maybe the info is out there, I’ve just never come across it, or have found anyone that definitively knows. Like does it act on the prog receptor similar to bio-identical prog? Does it fill the prog receptors, but not carry out the actions that bio-identical prog does, and also block bio-identical prog from getting into the prog receptors? I want answers to these questions more than u could imagine! lol. What I do know, is some guys feel way better on a nandrolone base, than on a test best, which is why I don’t worry too much about it. Whatever is actually going on, seems to work well for some guys, and I think it’s important to listen to the body. If u feel and function good, in all areas, that’s probably a good sign that things in ur body are working well. Obv there’s exceptions to this. Like if a bodybuilder is on 1000mg of gear, and feels awesome, that doesn’t necessarily mean his body is in a state of optimal health. But in general, I personally don’t worry too much about prog, on a nandrolone base, if everything is going well subjectively and objectively.

And ya, that’s the best part of a nandrolone base. Instead of getting ur androgens up with exogenous test, and then possibly needing to lower E2, dht, and/ or prolactin, while trying to keep androgens the same, it’s the opposite with a nandrolone base. U keep androgens high with the nandrolone, and then u have to raise up ur E2, dht and prolactin, with the test. But it’s awesome, because all ur androgen needs are covered with the nandrolone, so u simply start as low as possible with the test, and titrate it up until u find ur sweetspot. And test is bio-identical, no need to worry about sides from it. Unlike meds that one would need to take to lower E2, dht, and/or prolactin, such as AI’s, 5ar enzyme inhibitors, and meds to lower prolactin, such as cabergoline, pramipexole and bromocriptine.

Click to expand...

USMC said:

I'm starting to see improvement in my E2 and ED I may wait for all that to sort out before I change everything around. I may even finish off this cycle before I change it up to see how it works and then try the other way around. Thanks for all the advice!

Click to expand...