Raising ferritin FAST (a how-to, not a question)

FDV70 · Jan 13, 2022

Nelson Vergel said:
I just found an interesting article about ferritin fluctuations during the day

How Ferritin Fluctuates Through The Day & Why It Matters

However, note it's serum ferritin, not tissue ferritin, but yes. This is why I measure mine monthly, to make sure what my level is is real and not anomalous. I know not everyone wants to do a monthly test but that's just how I go about it.

It says "The levels of ferritin can go up several-fold in response to stress and infections or inflammatory states" and that is TRUE, however, it's actual hemosiderin in hepatocytes, so if one can supplement iron when the inflammation drops, that ferritin level will actually stay in place. We are seeing it in men with high hemoglobin levels (like 17+) after Covid.
This explains the inflammation ferritin, it's a piece I wrote for my own FB group on iron disorders.

Covid, iron, and ferritin

Nelson Vergel · Jan 13, 2022

I agree. I watched the video and was shocked at his statements. Who is this guy anyway ?

Gman86 · Jan 13, 2022

FDV70 said:
My opinion is that Robbins and his Root Cause Protocol is 1,000% completely and totally wrong. Ferritin is good and beneficial. A zero level of ferritin will make you feel like garbage. Serum ferritin is overflow from tissue, yes, but calling it a lasting sign of tissue pathology is absurd. There is zero scientific basis for his claims. The over-focus on copper being the problem behind iron just annoys the hell out of me too. The links on my page all go to current scientific findings. He just has one study his followers point to on cellular overflow and have no other basis for his claims. His misunderstanding of hepcidin as only being raised by inflammation is literal insanity. The iron administration pathway (BMP/SMAD) is separate from the inflammation pathway (IL-6). You can change a light bulb using a step ladder or standing on a milk crate but you wouldn't say step ladders are the same as milk crates. He's like the one guy on a street corner claiming the exact opposite of what we know to be reality.

That’s an awesome in depth review of him and his work. Appreciate the detailed reply

FDV70 · Jan 13, 2022

Nelson Vergel said:
I agree. I watched the video and was shocked at his statements. Who is this guy anyway ?

He's like some kind of mainstream science separatist -- when you dive into his personality he comes off as the guy who wants to be an "expert" by going against what everyone else is saying. Like that guy who was out there saying Vitamin C cures all these cancers. More 'nefarious' than 'correct.' And he makes his bucks selling books which of course make people feel worse with low or zero ferritin. He has a lot of followers who just insist that iron causes all these diseases from cancer to alzheimers because there are a few studies that show correlation but not causation. Like Parkinson's, as we all know, low iron stores might go hand in hand with it, but low iron stores do not cause it.

andrewBwinter · Feb 16, 2022

FDV70 said:
You MUST NOT be taking vitamins C and D.

Does this include minimal dietary sources? I do enjoy papaya, grapefruit and mango.

FDV70 · Feb 16, 2022

andrewBwinter said:
Does this include minimal dietary sources? I do enjoy papaya, grapefruit and mango.

Absolutely yes unfortunately.
You'll have to give these up for your 5 days.
Now, Vit D is a little less problematic.
If I were to spell out the whole protocol in detail, I would get way too many 'what if' questions, so I keep it general. For example, 100,000 IU of vit D reduces hepcidin by 33%. But if I tell people that, they'll say eh, I can still take my usual 10,000 IU and be fine. And they still have some vit D in their system and then the protocol doesn't work and they blame the protocol.
Vit C on the other hand has like zero tolerance here. You really need to avoid all ascorbic acid because it transports iron and pushes hepcidin down. For us, it's going to raise hemoglobin and defeat what we're doing.
So during your week you do this, none of your usual fruits.
TBH when I do this, I often just have protein powder that has no vitamins in it just so I can maximize the result.

FDV70 · Feb 16, 2022

To all in this thread, I actually last night wrote to the Doc at UCLA who discovered hepcidin and asked if he could evaluate my protocol and improve it.
It might be either the smartest, or stupidest, thing I have done in my research effort. I got a read receipt so fingers crossed.

I told him that I have hit the wall, and there's no more material on hepcidin that I can read (at this point, believe me, that's close to true).

Weasel · Feb 25, 2022

I used @FDV70 protocol for 7 days. I do NOT donate blood as I do not have elevated Hgb or Hct. I do always have low ferritin though but I was not looking to elevate Hgb or Hct. I ran labs this morning after 7 full days of 84mg ferrous bisglycinate 3x day at the designated times in his protocol.

I did not draw labs directly before starting his protocol but they have been very consistent since 2016 so I have confidence these labs accurately reflect pre-protocol.

My labs from 12/21 showed the following (prior to protocol):

Hgb: 15.2
Hct: 46.7
TIBC: 365
Iron: 52
Ferritin: 29.8

The next labs are after 7 days of his protocol(drawn morning of day 8):

One thing that stands out(besides the amazing increase in ferritin) is my Hgb to Hct ratio. Hgb is actually about 1.5 low when compared to my Hct. Should I continue taking Iron but add Vit C to try and increase Hgb to match Hct? Thoughts?

WBC	4.1 K/uL	4.0 - 11.0 K/uL
RBC	5.40 M/uL	4.40 - 5.80 M/uL
Hemoglobin	14.7 g/dL	13.5 - 17.5 g/dL
Hematocrit	48.6 %	40.0 - 50.0 %
MCV	89.9 fL	80.0 - 98.0 fL
MCH	27.3 pg	25.5 - 34.0 pg
MCHC	30.4 g/dL	31.5 - 36.5 g/dL	L
RDW-CV	12.0 %	11.5 - 15.5 %
Platelet Count	238 K/uL	140 - 400 K/uL
MPV	7.0 fL	5.1 - 9.9 fL
Seg Neut Absolute	2.0 K/uL	1.8 - 8.0 K/uL
Lymphocytes Absolute	1.5 K/uL	0.8 - 4.1 K/uL
Monocytes Absolute	0.3 K/uL	0.0 - 1.0 K/uL
Eosinophils Absolute	0.2 K/uL	0.0 - 0.7 K/uL
Basophil Absolute	0.1 K/uL	0.0 - 0.2 K/uL
Neutrophils Abs. (Segs and Bands)	2,000 /uL	/uL
Neutrophils Percent	49.7 %	%
Lymphocytes Percent	36.2 %	%
Monocytes Percent	8.2 %	%
Eosinophils Percent	4.4 %	%
Basophil Percent	1.6 %	%

Iron Total	124 ug/dL	65 - 175 ug/dL
TIBC	336 ug/dL	250 - 400 ug/dL
Iron Saturation	37 % Sat	20 - 50 % Sat

Ferritin

129 ng/mL

22 - 275 ng/mL

andrewBwinter · Feb 25, 2022

Primary goal was to raise ferritin but how did you feel during and after the protocol? Did it help with energy/lethargy, focus, clear mind, etc.?

Weasel · Feb 25, 2022

andrewBwinter said:
Primary goal was to raise ferritin but how did you feel during and after the protocol? Did it help with energy/lethargy, focus, clear mind, etc.?

Honestly, I didn't/don't really feel any different. Sleep may be just a tad better but nothing life changing at this point. I was certainly hoping for lots more in the way of energy, mind clarity, and sleep.

I believe I have read that all that can take a long time to actually happen though even after numbers improve.

FDV70 · Feb 26, 2022

Weasel said:
My labs from 12/21 showed the following (prior to protocol):
Ferritin: 29.8

The next labs are after 7 days of his protocol(drawn morning of day 8):

One thing that stands out(besides the amazing increase in ferritin) is my Hgb to Hct ratio. Hgb is actually about 1.5 low when compared to my Hct. Should I continue taking Iron but add Vit C to try and increase Hgb to match Hct? Thoughts?

RBC
5.40 M/uL
4.40 - 5.80 M/uL

Hemoglobin
14.7 g/dL
13.5 - 17.5 g/dL

Hematocrit
48.6 %
40.0 - 50.0 %

L

Ferritin
129 ng/mL
22 - 275 ng/mL

"Should I continue taking Iron but add Vit C to try and increase Hgb to match Hct?"

I would not. HGB is "what it is" and in your case it's sufficient. There is no need to go higher. HCT is usually 3x HGB and variances are generally hydration related.
My protocol makes HGB fall a tiny bit (helpful for most TRT guys) and you are still at a perfectly fine level. If you want to, you can bring HGB up cautiously by adding a 5mg (yep, just five mg) iron pill daily every morning. Do it for a limited time. Some guys get a good long term benefit. And for others HGB goes too high. In your case it looks like the 5mg could be ok and you'll still be HGB below 17. Keep that ferritin over 100 for a few months and you will feel much better.

Weasel · Feb 26, 2022

FDV70 said:
"Should I continue taking Iron but add Vit C to try and increase Hgb to match Hct?"

I would not. HGB is "what it is" and in your case it's sufficient. There is no need to go higher. HCT is usually 3x HGB and variances are generally hydration related.
My protocol makes HGB fall a tiny bit (helpful for most TRT guys) and you are still at a perfectly fine level. If you want to, you can bring HGB up cautiously by adding a 5mg (yep, just five mg) iron pill daily every morning. Do it for a limited time. Some guys get a good long term benefit. And for others HGB goes too high. In your case it looks like the 5mg could be ok and you'll still be HGB below 17. Keep that ferritin over 100 for a few months and you will feel much better.

What protocol would you recommend to keep ferritin Elevated? Or just monitor via labs and supplement when labs dictate?

andrewBwinter · Feb 26, 2022

Weasel said:
Honestly, I didn't/don't really feel any different. Sleep may be just a tad better but nothing life changing at this point. I was certainly hoping for lots more in the way of energy, mind clarity, and sleep.

I believe I have read that all that can take a long time to actually happen though even after numbers improve.

Okay, thank you. I've been chasing "feeling good" in a number of ways including ferritin. Not there yet. A sleep study for OSA is next.

Weasel · Feb 26, 2022

andrewBwinter said:
Okay, thank you. I've been chasing "feeling good" in a number of ways including ferritin. Not there yet. A sleep study for OSA is next.

I've been doing the same with minimal results. I have a sleep study coming up as well. Stay in touch @andrewBwinter

FDV70 · Feb 26, 2022

Weasel said:
What protocol would you recommend to keep ferritin Elevated? Or just monitor via labs and supplement when labs dictate?

Varies a lot. I have one friend who does this, he loses a point of ferritin for every day he doesn't take a 5mg iron pill.
Me, I can keep a level ferritin for a couple weeks with no iron pills when I'm done with my 5 day.
For me, I just re-do the protocol for 5 days every month now to maintain, PLUS I do it after a donation.

Weasel · Apr 20, 2022

FDV70 said:
Varies a lot. I have one friend who does this, he loses a point of ferritin for every day he doesn't take a 5mg iron pill.
Me, I can keep a level ferritin for a couple weeks with no iron pills when I'm done with my 5 day.
For me, I just re-do the protocol for 5 days every month now to maintain, PLUS I do it after a donation.

UPDATE: I've been taking 28mg bisglycinate daily since Feb 25th in hopes it would keep my Ferritin elevated. I just ran labs and Ferritin now sits at 58 vs 129 after using FD70's protocol. I have lost 71pts in 52 days. Roughly 1.36pts per day even when taking a large dose of Iron. HCT and HGB are relatively unchanged.

Why can I not maintain Ferritin? @FDV70

Nelson Vergel · Apr 20, 2022

Weasel said:
UPDATE: I've been taking 28mg bisglycinate daily since Feb 25th in hopes it would keep my Ferritin elevated. I just ran labs and Ferritin now sits at 58 vs 129 after using FD70's protocol. I have lost 71pts in 52 days. Roughly 1.36pts per day even when taking a large dose of Iron. HCT and HGB are relatively unchanged.

Thanks for sharing this valuable information.

FDV70 · Apr 28, 2022

Weasel said:
UPDATE: I've been taking 28mg bisglycinate daily since Feb 25th in hopes it would keep my Ferritin elevated. I just ran labs and Ferritin now sits at 58 vs 129 after using FD70's protocol. I have lost 71pts in 52 days. Roughly 1.36pts per day even when taking a large dose of Iron. HCT and HGB are relatively unchanged.

Why can I not maintain Ferritin? @FDV70

I'm not sure -- you gained 100 points in ferritin from doing my protocol for one week but when it came to maintenance you lost it, and we see this with large Testosterone dosing or HFE gene mutations. I rarely see anyone keep a ferritin over 70 anyway, but I am at a loss to understand why the drop like this. Is your Test dosing over 200mg per week?

Weasel · Apr 28, 2022

FDV70 said:
I'm not sure -- you gained 100 points in ferritin from doing my protocol for one week but when it came to maintenance you lost it, and we see this with large Testosterone dosing or HFE gene mutations. I rarely see anyone keep a ferritin over 70 anyway, but I am at a loss to understand why the drop like this. Is your Test dosing over 200mg per week?

100mg test cyp per week.

Match · Jun 15, 2022

The protocol suggests a dose of 65mg, to stimulate hepcindine, so that lower dose keeps low hepcidinam more absorption at the expense of reducing ferritin. Wouldn't that be more or less?
While it is low dose of 28 is in maintenance, after a few days

Raising ferritin FAST (a how-to, not a question)

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