Restarting after 8 years of TRT

[Charliebizz]

I will never turn my back to this community. Even though I haven't found full relief from my hormonal problems this community has helped me in so many way. All of you guys. And especially the drs at the forefront that post on these forums. Even the Drs will tell us we are just getting into this feild of medicine. And a lot of trial and error is going to come. But at least some one is doing something for guys like us. I just don't personally know if I'm ready for the commitment of trt long term I thought I was but I'm less stable on it. Granted off I'm not great I would say I'm ok. But on is more of a roller coaster. I have a little higher highs but not really sure I'd it out weights the lows I now have.

I struggled wirh low cortisol for years also and I'll tell you these boards helped me find great symptom relief. And not in the conventional way either. A dr m post about ssri and low cortisol got me to try low dose lexapro and it's been wonderful for low cortisol symptoms. That alone is worth sticking around

 

[Re-Ride]

14 doctors... medical indu$try... waste of time except for select conditions.

Not so long ago many friends were lost to scammers practicing alternative therapy because that was all they had to turn too. Unfortunately scamming is everywhere and now has become institutionalized as America's favorite pastime.

Alternatives:

Paul Stamets

harmonics

http://www.homeoint.org/morrell/astrology/medical.htm

alternate substances

The answer for many may not be what to latch on to but to identify that which must be eliminated or integrated.

 

[Charliebizz]

14 doctors... medical indu$try... waste of time except for select conditions.

Not so long ago many friends were lost to scammers practicing alternative therapy because that was all they had to turn too. Unfortunately scamming is everywhere and now has become institutionalized as America's favorite pastime.

Alternatives:

Paul Stamets

harmonics

http://www.homeoint.org/morrell/astrology/medical.htm

alternate substances

The answer for many may not be what to latch on to but to identify that which must be eliminated or integrated.

yeah man I went through the same thing chasing all the latest and greatest fads trying to get healthy. However that's what makes these forums great when it is real live people sharing experiences of what has worked for them. It at the very least gives some hope and things to try.

 

[JPB]

What you have to realize is the LH pulse is very important to libido and health of the sex organs. If that is shut off long enuf problems usually result. Hcg to the rescue? ...not quite the same

 

[Charliebizz]

Yeah I haven't had much luck with hcg. And been getting anxiety this was an interesting study I read https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0303720713005248

 

[Gman86]

I noticed increased brain fog and a little less libido after starting a new bottle of HCG recently. Obviously LH receptor stimulation all over the body, not just in the testicles, is probably very important. But is there even any alternatives than HCG to stimulate all these LH receptors?

 

[Gman86]

Didn’t mean to hijack the thread or anything, just wanted to put my 2 cents on how HCG may be effecting me in a couple negative ways as well

 

[sh1973]

I’ve never had any luck with hcg at any dose. Normally causes extreme fatigue with me

 

[Charliebizz]

How safe is trt long term without hcg or back filling?

 

[Starplex]

Have you tired Cialas (Tadafil), coupled with L-Arginine and L-Citrullene? I know you will probably get several recommendations, and have probably already had several. After the TRT honeymoon, my libido dropped to undesirable levels. Doc prescribed Tadafil, which did help. My pre-workout already has L-citrullene in it and then later I added the L-Arginine, from reading one of Vince's posts. After taking these 3 items my Libido improved drastically including blood flow to the Penis, which meant a better erection too. Most likely due to the nitric oxide production.

 

[Gman86]

I was using a bottle of HCG that I had been using for a little over 2 months, and I noticed my testicles were hanging nicely and my penis was very full flaccid the last few weeks of that bottle. Then a few days after starting a new bottle of HCG I noticed increased brain fog, increased fatigue, my testicles weren't hanging as well and my penis was nowhere near as full as it was when using the older bottle of HCG. Same brand I've been using for over a year now. I'm getting blood work done soon, but I'm guessing the new bottle of HCG was obviously more potent, and made my E2 rise too much. Or too much HCG is increasing downstream hormones too much or something and causing my issues. Either scenario, lowering my HCG dose might help. Currently on 800iu/ week. Thinking about going down to 500iu/week. Might even stop it all together for a couple weeks just to see how I feel with it out of my system. Can't cut it out forever due to not wanting my testicles to atrophy

 

[Vince]

I was using a bottle of HCG that I had been using for a little over 2 months, and I noticed my testicles were hanging nicely and my penis was very full flaccid the last few weeks of that bottle. Then a few days after starting a new bottle of HCG I noticed increased brain fog, increased fatigue, my testicles weren't hanging as well and my penis was nowhere near as full as it was when using the older bottle of HCG. Same brand I've been using for over a year now. I'm getting blood work done soon, but I'm guessing the new bottle of HCG was obviously more potent, and made my E2 rise too much. Or too much HCG is increasing downstream hormones too much or something and causing my issues. Either scenario, lowering my HCG dose might help. Currently on 800iu/ week. Thinking about going down to 500iu/week. Might even stop it all together for a couple weeks just to see how I feel with it out of my system. Can't cut it out forever due to not wanting my testicles to atrophy

If you're getting your blood work done in a few weeks I hope you're not talking about stopping HCG before your blood work. I definitely would keep the same protocol until after you have your labs, and you might as well look at your labs before you make any adjustments.

 

[JPB]

Hcg will keep you shutdown centrally so I would ditch it within a months or so of quitting TRT and making a transition to Clomid

 

[Gman86]

No that's definitely the plan Vince. I'm gonna continue taking it, get my blood work back and then assess things from there

 

[Gman86]

JPB is right, HCG is just as suppressing as testosterone. An easy way to know if something is shutting u down or not is to go by LH and FSH levels. Anything that drops them both to almost zero is causing you shutdown. Testosterone and HCG both shut down your own LH and FSH levels. Clomid will bring LH and FSH levels up.

 

[sh1973]

I’m 14 days out from last injection of 80mg. I started 25mg clomid on day of last injection. Overall I feel pretty damn well, especially mood wise. I get a little tired in the evenings, but don’t mind that. I hope things normalize and my libido returns to what it was pre trt. After 8 years of labs, changing protocols, constantly reading about ways to improve results, I’m just the hell over it. I hope this works, considering I’ve been shut down 8 years. In the past I did a couple restart attempts by waiting 14 days after injection before starting anything and felt like death both times even before making the 14 day mark. This time I started clomid immediately and there been virtually no symptoms. I suppose I could still get a crash, but both times before, it had happened well before now. Going to stay positive and hope for the best.

 

[JPB]

I was in the same place after about 2.5 years of TRT. As for recovery you just have to be patient with it. There will probably be some rough spots.

 

[sh1973]

Are you doing ok off trt?

 

[JPB]

Age 58, it took a while but yes I am doing fine. Although my libido is not as strong, and for workouts and appearance I am not as big and strong as I would be on TRT, so I do miss those aspects. But my strength is about the same as when I was 20. My actual sexual function seems much better, more normal, on rare occasion to test it. The struggle is real. I workout in a hardcore gym and if I was "on" I could hang with most everyone else despite my age (most of them are using something). Last blood work after cleaning out Clomid for 1 month my total T levels came back at 588. I tend to cruise on about 15-20mg Clomid every other day. I also take daily Cialis and use some peptides. What's bothering me the most right now is my arms. My arms use to look jacked. They've kind of lost that. I was on blood thinners three months last year and they fk'd me up. Things are about getting back to normal now. But if I went on T, I could get things to pop again. The temptation is always there, but I use to be a roider. What I have noticed is when I was younger this stuff was all upside. Now being older, there is less upside and more side effects. The problems with sexual function are what caused me to quit the TRT. But I also did not deploy daily Cialis then. But the other thing about being on TRT for a while, going into the 2nd year, regarding sexual function, in addition to just issues getting it up, my loads were not strong, and it did not feel as good. So when you combine that, with raging libido in your brain, very frustrating. So after trying hcg as a fix and finding it made things worse, I decided to stop. Sorry for the lengthy response!! But that's my story and for now I'm sticking with it.

 

[sh1973]

Hey, I’m glad you wrote the lengthy story. It definitely gives me hope, considering I’m only 44. I know what you mean about test working much better when your younger. I did 3 cycles in my 20s and it seemed the more the better. Now the more the worse I get. Just tired of all of it. I’m at day 15 since last injection and feel quiet well on the 25mg daily. I’ll probably do labs in a couple weeks to see where LH and test are, but I’m assuming feeling the way I do, that’s its working.