I started with 15mg MK677 before bed. I experienced mild munchies during the day and mild water retention about like when I drink alcohol. After 2 to 3 weeks I upped the dose to 25mg without any increase in the sides. Since then the sides have decreased even more and are very manageable. I get the favorable results I was looking for. In fact I switched from CJC and Ipamorelin because of side effects. I have no reason to go back.
Oral growth hormone enhancer MK-677 (ibutamoren)
- Thread starter Nelson Vergel
- Start date
Awesome, thanks! So if I ever do decide to try it, I can literally take as low of a dose as I want, assess tolerance/ side effects, and titrate up slowly as needed. Good to know
Has switching to mk-677 been much cheaper as well, compared to CJC and ipa?
Ibutamoren is to HGH what Clomid is to exogenous testosterone…both will raise targeted hormone levels, but the two drugs promoting endogenous production result in a host of side effects that far outweigh their alternatives.
I've not tracked it, but no huge difference in cost.
Smitty510209
New Member
Just ordered MK 677 and BPC 157 from Swiss Chems.
Will be my first time using Peptides.
t_spacemonkey
Well-Known Member
i'd stay away from ibutamoren. i can't recall the articles source, but it will essentially fuck up certain brain cells due to long half resulting in permanently induced fear states potentially. lots of horror stories out there. i probably stick to ipamorelin, seems safer.
Deleted member 43589
Well-Known Member
Just sent you a PM. By the way, the 1.5 - 2 hour thing is nothing more than bro science. I know a doctor who has tested this theory through blood work and even Dr. Crisler use to discuss how that theory was incorrect. Of course you can substitute the alcohol for DMSO. Taste....like an old sock. It is foul tasting. Vodka may not be a high enough proof, everclear or barcardi 151 is much better.
I'm keeping MK in my fridge and hit it mid mornings most days. Helps me eat and greatly reduces recovery from workouts. Did blood work before any MK and a month after and IGF1 had a huge gain. Mine was super low so big improvement. I take Ipa on gym days also. MK water retention isn't an issue anymore after a couple months in my experience.
Deleted member 43589
Well-Known Member
Never have I heard any of this. Seems off because MK-677 has been found to protect brain cells against programmed cell death (apoptosis) by increasing ghrelin levels, which in turn prevents cognitive decline (1-6). MK-677 improves cognitive function and prevents age-related cognitive decline by increasing the levels of GH (7-27).
- Kim SW, Her SJ, Park SJ, et al. Ghrelin stimulates proliferation and differentiation and inhibits apoptosis in osteoblastic MC3T3-E1 cells. Bone. 2005;37(3):359-69.
- Kim YS, Choi DH, Block ML, et al. A pivotal role of matrix metalloproteinase-3 activity in dopaminergic neuronal degeneration via microglial activation. FASEB J. 2007;21(1):179-87.
- Banks WA, Tschöp M, Robinson SM, Heiman ML. Extent and direction of ghrelin transport across the blood-brain barrier is determined by its unique primary structure. J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 2002;302(2):822-7.
- Chung H, Seo S, Moon M, Park S. Phosphatidylinositol-3-kinase/Akt/glycogen synthase kinase-3 beta and ERK1/2 pathways mediate protective effects of acylated and unacylated ghrelin against oxygen-glucose deprivation-induced apoptosis in primary rat cortical neuronal cells. J Endocrinol. 2008;198(3):511-21.
- García-cáceres C, Lechuga-sancho A, Argente J, Frago LM, Chowen JA. Death of hypothalamic astrocytes in poorly controlled diabetic rats is associated with nuclear translocation of apoptosis inducing factor. J Neuroendocrinol. 2008;20(12):1348-60.
- Frago LM, Pañeda C, Dickson SL, Hewson AK, Argente J, Chowen JA. Growth hormone (GH) and GH-releasing peptide-6 increase brain insulin-like growth factor-I expression and activate intracellular signaling pathways involved in neuroprotection. Endocrinology. 2002;143(10):411
- Nyberg F, Hallberg M. Growth hormone and cognitive function. Nat Rev Endocrinol. 2013;9(6):357-65.
- Baker LD, Barsness SM, Borson S, et al. Effects of Growth Hormone–Releasing Hormone on Cognitive Function in Adults With Mild Cognitive Impairment and Healthy Older Adults: Results of a Controlled Trial. Archives of neurology. 2012;69(11):1420-1429. doi:10.1001/archneurol.2012.1970.
- Maruff P, Falleti M. Cognitive function in growth hormone deficiency and growth hormone replacement. Horm Res. 2005;64 Suppl 3:100-8.
- Baker LD, Barsness SM, Borson S, et al. Effects of growth hormone–releasing hormone on cognitive function in adults with mild cognitive impairment and healthy older adults: results of a controlled trial. Arch Neurol. 2012;69(11):1420-9.
- Ong LK, Chow WZ, Tebay C, et al. Growth Hormone Improves Cognitive Function After Experimental Stroke. Stroke. 2018;49(5):1257-1266.
- Bove RM, White CC, Gerweck AV, et al. Effect of growth hormone on cognitive function in young women with abdominal obesity. Clinical endocrinology. 2016;84(4):635-637. doi:10.1111/cen.12996.
- Aleman A, Verhaar HJ, De haan EH, et al. Insulin-like growth factor-I and cognitive function in healthy older men. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1999;84(2):471-5.
- Sonntag WE, Deak F, Ashpole N, et al. Insulin-like growth factor-1 in CNS and cerebrovascular aging. Frontiers in Aging Neuroscience. 2013;5:27. doi:10.3389/fnagi.2013.00027.
- Nashiro K, Guevara-aguirre J, Braskie MN, et al. Brain Structure and Function Associated with Younger Adults in Growth Hormone Receptor-Deficient Humans. J Neurosci. 2017;37(7):1696-1707.
- Available at Can a Growth Hormone-Stimulating Drug Improve Cognitive... : Neurology Today.
- Available at http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/142/4/e20173938.
- High WM, Briones-Galang M, Clark JA, et al. Effect of Growth Hormone Replacement Therapy on Cognition after Traumatic Brain Injury. Journal of Neurotrauma. 2010;27(9):1565-1575. doi:10.1089/neu.2009.1253.
- Grugni G, Sartorio A, Crinò A. Growth hormone therapy for Prader–willi syndrome: challenges and solutions. Therapeutics and Clinical Risk Management. 2016;12:873-881. doi:10.2147/TCRM.S70068.
- Xue Y, Gao Y, Wang S, Wang P. An examination of the effects of different doses of recombinant human growth hormone on children with growth hormone deficiency. Experimental and Therapeutic Medicine. 2016;11(5):1647-1652. doi:10.3892/etm.2016.3091.
- Lupien SB, Bluhm EJ, Ishii DN. Systemic insulin-like growth factor-I administration prevents cognitive impairment in diabetic rats, and brain IGF regulates learning/memory in normal adult rats. J Neurosci Res. 2003;74(4):512-23.
kayfab1972
New Member
mk-677 works but i had the worst side effects with this one, first hunger never went away i was taking 25mg per day then lowered to 15-12 and finally 10.
Chin splint unable to go for a long walk and ouf of breath easy, walking up and down the stairs. Weight gain was on for about 3 months gained 25 pounds not muscles water and fat mostly.
Trouble sleeping. On paper MK looks amazing but in real life and from the feedback i got from other people and my sport doctor no.
Chin splint unable to go for a long walk and ouf of breath easy, walking up and down the stairs. Weight gain was on for about 3 months gained 25 pounds not muscles water and fat mostly.
Trouble sleeping. On paper MK looks amazing but in real life and from the feedback i got from other people and my sport doctor no.
As Rosamme Rosannedanna once said, "It just goes to show you. It's always something. If it's not one thing, it's another."
And to state the obvious: Every substance isn't for everybody.
I, for one, have issues with the cpc/ipamorelin combo but not MK677. Find your sugar cookie and stick to it.
And to state the obvious: Every substance isn't for everybody.
I, for one, have issues with the cpc/ipamorelin combo but not MK677. Find your sugar cookie and stick to it.
This post may not add any value given that I’m not taking the time to post it, but there are articles written speculating the detrimental impact Ibutamoren could have on brain cells given it’s exceedingly long mechanism of action. You have now heard of this as a hypothesis.
t_spacemonkey
Well-Known Member
here it is! i have a bottle and 2g raw powder of this. so i don't take it lightly after spending 100usd on this. but i don't think i will try it based on the 2 below. gladly will give it away for free lol
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
A ghrelin-growth hormone axis drives stress-induced vulnerability to enhanced fear - PMC
Hormones in the hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis mediate many of the bodily responses to stressors, yet there is not a clear relationship between the levels of these hormones and stress-associated mental illnesses such as post-traumatic ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
The reference is also on the Wikipedia page and pertains to rats. That and other speculation deterred me from continued use, but I had taken 12.5 mg daily for nine months without obvious negative effects; for me the water retention was a benefit.
We also show that increased ghrelin receptor activity is sufficient and necessary for stress-enhanced fear and is dissociable from HPA activity. Repeated activation of ghrelin receptors in non-stressed animals significantly enhances fear learning without elevating HPA stress hormones, while systemic blockade of the ghrelin receptor during chronic stress prevents stress-related enhancement of fear, even in the presence of elevated adrenal stress hormones. We demonstrate that the amygdala, a brain region that displays enhanced function in chronically stressed animals and in patients with trauma-related disorders, is likely the locus of the fear-enhancing effects of repeated ghrelin receptor stimulation. Finally, we show that GH, a downstream effector of ghrelin receptor activation, is increased in the BLA by chronic stress, is sufficient to enhance fear learning, and plays a necessary role in the fear-potentiating effects of ghrelin. Thus, ghrelin and growth hormone act together in the amygdala to enhance fear.
Our study is the first to explicitly examine the effects of protracted exposure to elevated ghrelin, as observed following chronic stress. We show that there are profound differences in the behavioral consequences of ghrelin exposure following different exposure durations, similar to the cumulative nature of stress. We also provide the first evidence to link prolonged exposure to elevated ghrelin with a specific, detrimental consequence of stress, enhanced fear memory, which typifies trauma-induced anxiety disorders such as PTSD. Because PTSD is a multi-faceted disorder producing many symptoms, including those related to avoidance and hyperarousal, it will be interesting to determine whether chronically elevated ghrelin contributes to these sequelae of PTSD in addition to promoting changes in fear learning and memory.
Well, hell, they used "Enhanced Interrogation" techniques on those rats. That was one sick study. I'm not sure there's anything useful that came out of that. Other than some people shouldn't conduct studies on animals. The next time I'm scheduled for torture I'll be sure to be off the MK. Have you got any others?
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