Alternating Dosage Every other day on Daily Dosing

[Gnairb5]

Hi everyone,

Just a theory I've been having.

I started doing daily dosing recently and it's probably the best I've felt since staring TRT. I'm a low SHBG by the way (around 20).

But my main issue is insomnia and I'm curious if this is caused by having a steady state of high test levels.

So what I am now trying is alternating dosage everyday to allow for more fluctuation in levels. For example, 14mg one day and 18mg the next and so forth.

Doing smaller injections daily definitely seems to be advantageous for me as large doses at once always seemed to give me bad anxiety.

Curious what all of you think of this approach. Any cons or pros you can imagine. The goal is obviously to create a bit of fluctuation in levels.

Thanks in advance!

 

[eli]

It takes 6+ weeks for your body to get used to the new protocol and during that time fatigue, insomnia, weakness are part of the game, you just have go through it

 

[bixt]

You should rather have started on 10mg a day. From the bloods I have seen, 3/4 of them are top end of the range for free T.

 

[equel]

Its an interesting idea, try it, Ive been thinking of doing something similar.

 

[Willyt]

on faster acting propionate you can definitely feel daily difference but I doubt it on Cyp/enan

 

[Anonymon]

Hi everyone,

Just a theory I've been having.

I started doing daily dosing recently and it's probably the best I've felt since staring TRT. I'm a low SHBG by the way (around 20).

But my main issue is insomnia and I'm curious if this is caused by having a steady state of high test levels.

So what I am now trying is alternating dosage everyday to allow for more fluctuation in levels. For example, 14mg one day and 18mg the next and so forth.

Doing smaller injections daily definitely seems to be advantageous for me as large doses at once always seemed to give me bad anxiety.

Curious what all of you think of this approach. Any cons or pros you can imagine. The goal is obviously to create a bit of fluctuation in levels.

Thanks in advance!

You can alternate your dosing if you want but that small of a change day to day likely isn’t going to make much difference than evening the dose out day to day because of the long half life of the ester causing a slow T drop for 5-7 days depending on what you’re on. You won’t have much less of a high steady state of test by varying it in that way unless you’re using propionate.

If your body can’t adjust to the dose, you might need to come down, or go up, or take measures to supplement in other ways.

When you say insomnia, is it just the mental anxiety that keeps you up? Pregnenolone helps me stay calm, both transdermal and oral. That’s a route you could explore as many guys on TRT come in with low preg.

 

[eli]

You can alternate your dosing if you want but that small of a change day to day likely isn’t going to make much difference than evening the dose out day to day because of the long half life of the ester causing a slow T drop for 5-7 days depending on what you’re on. You won’t have much less of a high steady state of test by varying it in that way unless you’re using propionate.

If your body can’t adjust to the dose, you might need to come down, or go up, or take measures to supplement in other ways.

When you say insomnia, is it just the mental anxiety that keeps you up? Pregnenolone helps me stay calm, both transdermal and oral. That’s a route you could explore as many guys on TRT come in with low preg.

on faster acting propionate you can definitely feel daily difference but I doubt it on Cyp/enan

Daily injections even with Test cyp make a huge difference especially for low SHBG guys. You guys need to stay updated with TRT. There are literally 100s of testimonies of guys reporting better results with daily injections lol.

This actually started in the bodybuilding community many years ago and recently in TRT community

 

[Anonymon]

Daily injections even with Test cyp make a huge difference especially for low SHBG guys. You guys need to stay updated with TRT. There are literally 100s of testimonies of guys reporting better results with daily injections lol.

This actually started in the bodybuilding community many years ago and recently in TRT community

You’ve completely missed the entire point. I also inject daily and have for years, currently test-c. The OP asked if he would feel better if he injected daily but on some days did 14mg and other days did 18mg to avoid having his total test be too high all the time, the idea being that some days being 14 and some being 18 would somehow cause his body to not have a higher total test all the time because he’s alternating days. 14/18/14 schedules injected daily wouldn’t be much different than 16 injected daily as far as total test levels go. You can disagree with that if you want but you completely missed the point of what we were talking about. I wasn’t telling him not to inject daily and I’ve injected daily subq for years now.

 

[Jurek Kletsy]

The whole point of daily dosing is keeping the levels steady, if you want fluctuations then don’t dose daily.

If however high testosterone is what causes you anxiety and insomnia, then just lower your dose.

Don’t overcomplicate this.

 

[Gman86]

I keep my levels pretty high, and I do EOD injections. So my levels are very steady. SHBG usually runs in the 30’s. And I sleep great, zero anxiety. So just goes to show that everyone is different, and steady levels aren’t a cause for sleep issues in everyone, and high levels aren’t gonna cause anxiety in everyone. I attribute my ability to feel good regardless of the protocol I’m on to being a health freak and addressing every aspect of my health, not just trying to opimtimize my HRT protocol. My suggestion would be to work on all aspects of ur health, and it will be much easier to dial in ur HRT protocol, imo and my experience

I’ve also done ED injections for a little bit, and noticed no differences, good or bad, so just went back to EOD injections out of convenience

 

[JimGainz]

Over the years I’ve tried just about everything from once a week, twice a week every third day, every other day and just switched to daily dose and a few weeks ago. Best I ever felt.

I’m slightly atypical in the sense that I take 10 mg of testosterone along with 10 mg of nandrolone daily and about 100 IUs of hCG all mixed in the same syringe.

I have not yet gotten bloods done from this protocol but I will around May or June. I am going by how I feel subjectively. The lower dosing better managers my estrogen and hematocrit and it feels terrific for me. If I were to remove the nandrolone I would probably go a little bit higher on the testosterone. For what it’s worth my SHBG was around mid 20s

 

[eli]

OP what's your bloodwork like?

 

[Systemlord]

I wonder if other men with low SHBG would do as equally well on Jatenzo being that your hormone levels are always changing throughout the day.

I'm around 1000 at 2 hours, 600-700 at 4 hours and 287 at 12 hours. Jatenzo is taken twice daily.

My SHBG has actually gone up, from pre-TRT 11 ->17 as I've lost weight and improved my fasting glucose.

I imagine it will continue to climb as I lose more weight.

 

[eli]

I wonder if other men with low SHBG would do as equally well on Jatenzo being that your hormone levels are always changing throughout the day.

I'm around 1000 at 2 hours, 600-700 at 4 hours and 287 at 12 hours. Jatenzo is taken twice daily.

My SHBG has actually gone up, from pre-TRT 11 ->17 as I've lost weight and improved my fasting glucose.

I imagine it will continue to climb as I lose more weight.

What are your other levels? Estradiol, dht, liver. I'd take 3 times a day if that's the case

 

[equel]

I wanna try that Jatenzo but impossible to get my hands on in my country.

 

[JIMO]

I wonder if other men with low SHBG would do as equally well on Jatenzo being that your hormone levels are always changing throughout the day.

I'm around 1000 at 2 hours, 600-700 at 4 hours and 287 at 12 hours. Jatenzo is taken twice daily.

My SHBG has actually gone up, from pre-TRT 11 ->17 as I've lost weight and improved my fasting glucose.

I imagine it will continue to climb as I lose more weight.

That’s great results with Jatenzo. I’ve been on TRT for 20 years and from my experience this type of blood serum pattern best replicates the bodies circadian cycles. Just curious, are you taking Pregnenolone or progesterone? If so what amounts per day? Thanks

 

[madman]

What are your other levels? Estradiol, dht, liver. I'd take 3 times a day if that's the case

You are not understanding the PK.

It is dosed twice daily.

Even then there is no issue with liver toxicity.

Jatenzo, an Oral Testosterone Replacement Therapy

Clarus Therapeutics Announces Commercial Launch and Availability of JATENZO® (testosterone undecanoate) capsules, CIII for the Treatment of Hypogonadism Clarus Therapeutics Announces Commercial Launch and Availability of JATENZO® (testosterone undecanoate) capsules, CIII for the Treatment of...

www.excelmale.com

Figure 2: Mean (±SEM) Concentration-Time Profile for NaF-EDTA Plasma Total Testosterone in JATENZO Treated Subjects at Final PK Visit

JATENZO®: Challenges in the development of oral testosterone

Testosterone therapy (TT) for the treatment of testosterone deficiency (TD) can be administered via several routes of administration. Due to a variety of concerns such as hepatotoxicity, an oral formulation has long been absent in the United States. Recently, JATENZO® (testosterone undecanoate)...

www.excelmale.com

*PHARMACOLOGY OF ORAL TESTOSTERONE THERAPY

Oral administration of exogenous TT historically has proven to be unsuccessful. Despite adequate absorption in the gastrointestinal system, this form of testosterone undergoes extensive first-pass metabolism through the liver, and thus requires ingestion of supraphysiological doses to attain therapeutic serum levels [14]. As a way to circumvent the liver metabolism pathway, research efforts to administer oral testosterone have taken two primary paths: alkylation of testosterone at the carbon-17 position and fatty-acid esterification of testosterone to create a testosterone ester (Fig. 1).

Alkylation of testosterone at carbon 17α results in 17αmethyltestosterone which allows for the ability to bypass the first metabolism in the liver. However, this modification has been linked to significant liver toxicity including cholestasis, hepatitis, and hepatic adenocarcinoma [15–17] and lowering of HDL cholesterol [18, 19]. The effects of methyltestosterone on liver function were first described in the 1940s, with studies of liver function demonstrating elevations in both serum direct and indirect bilirubin levels [19]. Foss and Simpson also described a case series of 42 patients who developed jaundice during methyltestosterone therapy [20]. They noted that the duration of therapy to the onset of jaundice ranged from 8 days to 10 months and withdrawal of methyltestosterone therapy resulted in remission of hepatocellular dysfunction within a few days to weeks. Recent work has focused on testing the effects of synthetic androgens on liver function utilizing animal models [21] and has corroborated prior work demonstrating direct increases in alanine aminotransferase, aspartate aminotransferase, gamma-glutamyl transpeptidase, and sorbitol dehydrogenase. Therefore, methyltestosterone is largely not recommended for the management of male hypogonadism [6, 22].

Esterification of testosterone at carbon 17β yields testosterone esters such as testosterone cypionate, testosterone propionate, and testosterone undecanoate (TU). Specifically for TU, this modification allows testosterone to be absorbed via the lymphatic system and therefore bypass liver degradation. An early oral TU formulation (ANDRIOL®) was approved for use in many countries but never in the United States. This formulation is heavily reliant on dietary fat intake as a means of increasing absorption and therefore leads to significant intra- and inter-patient variability in testosterone response [23, 24]. This results in the need to dose hypogonadal men with several capsules three or more times daily affecting compliance. Several studies have also demonstrated both gastrointestinal and liver adverse effects including severe cholestasis and jaundice [25, 26]. Consequently, these oral TU formulations have never been widely utilized to treat TD in the United States although they remain available in many countries

 

[madman]

I wonder if other men with low SHBG would do as equally well on Jatenzo being that your hormone levels are always changing throughout the day.

I'm around 1000 at 2 hours, 600-700 at 4 hours and 287 at 12 hours. Jatenzo is taken twice daily.

My SHBG has actually gone up, from pre-TRT 11 ->17 as I've lost weight and improved my fasting glucose.

I imagine it will continue to climb as I lose more weight.

Post the 3 sets of labs (2/4/12 hrs post-dose)?

Hours of operation Labcorp/Quest 7-5 pm.....no?

 

[Systemlord]

Post the 3 sets of labs (2/4/12 hrs post-dose)?

I can on Tuesday when I return home. My labs are spot on with the clinical trial paper you provided in my Jetanzo log thread.

Hours of operation Labcorp/Quest 7-5 pm.....no?

At Kaiser I can go any time of the day to draw labs 24 hours a day. There are certain lab locations that do not close.

 

[MIP1950]

I keep my levels pretty high, and I do EOD injections. So my levels are very steady. SHBG usually runs in the 30’s. And I sleep great, zero anxiety. So just goes to show that everyone is different, and steady levels aren’t a cause for sleep issues in everyone, and high levels aren’t gonna cause anxiety in everyone. I attribute my ability to feel good regardless of the protocol I’m on to being a health freak and addressing every aspect of my health, not just trying to opimtimize my HRT protocol. My suggestion would be to work on all aspects of ur health, and it will be much easier to dial in ur HRT protocol, imo and my experience

I’ve also done ED injections for a little bit, and noticed no differences, good or bad, so just went back to EOD injections out of convenience

What dosage? Now been doing EOD Test E, 34 mg, IM. SHBG was 42 a few months ago.