Why is scar tissue for injection sites a concern?

[Deleted member 43589]

Amen! AA clinics have made a huge difference. Insurance companies jumping on board to cover TRT also has helped. My PC offered me a script in 2016, however my insurance company would not cover it and the cash prices at the pharmacy were too high. I could buy good UG products all day long for $2/gram. I told my doctor that it was just not cost effective for me. Once I got Medicare I found I only had to pay $5 for 1g already made so it was worth while. So I have come a full circle after 32 years and back getting pharmaceutical products with medical supervision again. What a blessing! However, my doctor will not write scripts for HGH because the FDA gives medical doctors a hard time. So I still have to partially rely on the black market.

 

[Mastodont]

2300 is just a guess based on 1 x week for 42 years. Like I said for some of periods in my life I was doing in one week, 2g of testosterone, 3 vials of Parabolin plus 1-2 other injectables. Yea, I know.....stupid. But this was not someone pretending to be on TRT. No one even knew what that was back then.

I have zero pain and the muscle is functionable, but injecting into this thick scar tissue is impossible. Even with a 1.5 inch/26g. If you ever get it through the scar tissue, you can't get the oil injected. I have had fully locked needles pop off the syringe and even bent 27g's. Absolutely both side have been used. Using other areas other than the upper lateral quarter of the glutes become risky as you chance of hitting a vein are huge which can put you at risk for a pulmonary oil microembolism (POME) reaction or even hitting the sciatic nerve. Had both happen a few times. At minimal you end up with a blood mess. Especially with the 1.5" 26g's.

In 2007 I started using Testosterone Undeconate (TRT) which became a blessing because I only had to do IMs every 12 weeks, other than having to inject 3ml at a time. Switching to sub-q has been great. I have done HGH for many years micro dosing 3-4 times a day, plus various other peptides that I have used in conjunction, Never minded doing this at all. Never had bruising, bleeding, lumps or scar tissue. I started doing sub-q oil injections in maybe 2015 because of Dr. Crisler.

Out of curiosity, what is your trt subq protocol currently? Obviously you switched from undecanoate due to not being able to inject in the glute, 3ml is pretty hard to stick anywhere else.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

I actually switched from undeconate because my long time source sold me 100g of TU raw powder that was crap. So I tossed it all in the garbage, at least my money was refunded after I had it tested. I could find places to inject but as I said, it was in places with lots of veins and always made a blood mess or too close to the sciatic nerve. It took me a year to figure out this TU was worthless through a series of blood testing. My protocol now is 100mg of test cypionate ever 10 days.

 

[Mastodont]

I actually switched from undeconate because my long time source sold me 100g of TU raw powder that was crap. So I tossed it all in the garbage, at least my money was refunded after I had it tested. I could find places to inject but as I said, it was in places with lots of veins and always made a blood mess or too close to the sciatic nerve. It took me a year to figure out this TU was worthless through a series of blood testing. My protocol now is 100mg of test cypionate ever 10 days.

Wow, that is a conservative dose with your background, and also goes to show microdosing is not for everyone, ever had any lumps with that amount subq?

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Yea, I would have never imagined that 100mg would put me at the 830 range. I have never had any lumps at all with sub-q. I even tried the testosterone undeconate sub-q going 50mg every day for 15 days. No lumps even with castor oil. The only ting I had problems with was trenbolone acetate, burned like crap even with small doses. Now my wife on the other hand gets lumps with everything. Even HGH. So I have to give her HGH injections IM.

 

[tareload]

Yea, I would have never imagined that 100mg would put me at the 830 range. I have never had any lumps at all with sub-q. I even tried the testosterone undeconate sub-q going 50mg every day for 15 days. No lumps even with castor oil. The only ting I had problems with was trenbolone acetate, burned like crap even with small doses. Now my wife on the other hand gets lumps with everything. Even HGH. So I have to give her HGH injections IM.

Trough ng/dl? Midpoint?

Go to 100 mg/week on x-axis and read the 2.5, 50, and 97.5%tile off y-axis. Fun to compare your results against the distribution.



Adapted from a later study:

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Sorry, it was actually 839ng/dl so the 839ng/dl (Reference Range: 250-827 ng/dL) was taken at the 8th day of 10. I do HCG (250iu) on day 8 and day 9.

 

[tareload]

Sorry, it was actually 839ng/dl so the 839ng/dl (Reference Range: 250-827 ng/dL) was taken at the 8th day of 10. I do HCG (250iu) on day 8 and day 9.

Ok so 100 / 10 × 7 is 70 mg/week equivalent. Your dose response is very good percentile wise and further confirms your Xman status. Your free T elimination rate seems pretty low which means your serum levels get quite high per mg of T injected. Of course we may also need to adjust your numbers for hCG use but you get the idea. At 250 mg/week injected ester your TT /fT levels would be much higher than another dude who eliminates fT more rapidly.


You may enjoy this...reaction I got from one of the TOT disciples regarding me telling a poor bastard to start at 75 mg/week.

He claims his wife is on "50 / week". Bare minimum he claims is 150-175 per week starting dose for optimization. This is for a dude whose Doctor tried to kill him giving him 300 mg every 4 weeks. Facepalm.

Starting TRT Over Soon

Whats wrong with that? That is a baby dose. A good starting dose is around there. My dad for example is 75 or so and his Free t levels are right under 20. My wife takes 50 and you want a male to take only twice that of a female? Men have 10x the T women have FFS. It always boggles my mind why...

forums.t-nation.com

A couple posts down @madman :

Starting TRT Over Soon

Great. good for you. you can post a bunch of charts and shit. but you have zero clinical experience, which my source has. Who works direclty with Dr. Rouzier, who is the lead educator of HRT for men and women. Even the guys who give AI, put on their website they went to his clinics. This Dr...

forums.t-nation.com

Great. good for you. you can post a bunch of charts and shit. but you have zero clinical experience, which my source has...

 

[Deleted member 43589]

I went in to my doctor one time when I was doing 600mg of TU every month. I scored a nice 981 on the test serum. He looked at me with big eyes and I told him I honestly wanted to get it up to 1100. He was not happy with that because of my age. I was around 60 at the time. I am very happy where I am. Other than all the pain I have I feel good, and able to workout very intensely, recover quickly and have a very above average muscle mass for someone my age. I can't understand someone wanting to be at an old man's testosterone level on purpose.

But I told my doctor that when I was in my late 50's I was at the top of my competitive career and only used 250mg of testosterone enanthate a week. The only thing I ever added was cheque drops before a competition. I knew when he put me on 200mg every 10 days that it would be way too much. Not that I minded but I knew 2103 was not TRT and probably not so healthy for a 65 year old.

The HCG I always did 250iu x 2 (500iu total) two days before my injection. When I did TU I did the same but on Wed and Saturday of each week.

My wife is doing very well on 15mg of test base every day. But she has a long history of anabolic steroids use as I do. Thanks for all the good reads. I have been on TNation in years.

 

[Mastodont]

Sorry, it was actually 839ng/dl so the 839ng/dl (Reference Range: 250-827 ng/dL) was taken at the 8th day of 10. I do HCG (250iu) on day 8 and day 9.

Just making sure you had not yet done the hcg before labs that morning?

 

[bonder]

If anyone is injecting and has not encountered scarring of their belly, might I suggest alternating between the belly, the buttocks, the thigh and occasionally the fatty portion of the outside/underside portion of the upper arm.

To get at the arm, you can bunch up the fatty portion by resting the upper arm against a chair back or even your knee, that is if you can achieve a pretzel-like position.

Scarring is one of the downsides of our using insulin, but it's nothing compared with those nasty [SPAM] complications from uncontrolled high blood sugar.

Despite the wonders of insulin, we insulin-resistant Type II's still need to diet and exercise to avoid using more and more insulin while gaining more and more weight.