Who does not need to use an ED med?

[Forty2]

Does anyone here not need to take cialis or another ed med while on TRT?
The main reason I quit TRT is because I had far more episodes of ED than I had before I started and I could not tolerate the side effects of any ed med.

 

[Systemlord]

I did have ED for the first three years on Jatenzo, but then figured out the iron supplements wasn’t needed, missing doses I felt better those days and once I stopped the iron supplements, the ED is in the process of resolving itself.

I don’t need ED meds, I can’t tolerate them anyways.

Tri-mix doesn’t have side effects.

Maybe what you need is one of the oral testosterone, Jatenzo, Orlando or Kyzatrex. Rapidly changing hormone levels might be just what you need.

 

[Jerajera]

I don't need ED meds regardless, but my erection quality does vary based on the protocol.

In descending order of erection quality:
-Test Prop
-Test Cyp + low dose Masteron
-Compounded cream on scrotum
-Test Cyp + low dose Primo
-Test Cyp 2x/week
-Test Cyp daily

I had some luck inctroducing hCG initially but then the high E2 sides caught up with me and my dick was ok but not great.

Worst protocol for me I can still get it up, but I'm not diamond hard and if I jerk off before sex the same day it gets a little iffy.

On Prop alone, I can jerk off 4-5 times before I see my girlfriend and still be ridiculously hard and aggressive/intense/hungry sexually. Night and day difference.

 

[Forty2]

I don't need ED meds regardless, but my erection quality does vary based on the protocol.

In descending order of erection quality:
-Test Prop
-Test Cyp + low dose Masteron
-Compounded cream on scrotum
-Test Cyp + low dose Primo
-Test Cyp 2x/week
-Test Cyp daily

I had some luck inctroducing hCG initially but then the high E2 sides caught up with me and my dick was ok but not great.

Worst protocol for me I can still get it up, but I'm not diamond hard and if I jerk off before sex the same day it gets a little iffy.

On Prop alone, I can jerk off 4-5 times before I see my girlfriend and still be ridiculously hard and aggressive/intense/hungry sexually. Night and day difference.

What's your test prop dose and injection frequency?

 

[Jerajera]

What's your test prop dose and injection frequency?

At the time it was 15mg/day shallow IM. I tried subQ Prop and didn't get nearly the same benefits, for what it's worth.

I mention this in the other thread, but the reason I moved on from Prop at the time was that my E2 was getting really high while my Free T was barely above 50% of the range.
I started getting bloated and having headaches daily.

Still, my libido, mood and confidence were incredible, unmatched by any other protocol although Cyp + Masteron came close. Sleep however was trash and I felt overstimulated a lot (apparently this goes away after a while for some people, I stopped that Prop experiment pretty quickly when I started getting daily headaches).

I'm about to try Prop + Mast (or Primo or Proviron) to see if I can essentially get the benefits from Test Prop without the negative sides from sky high E2

 

[Bob62]

I have found proviron 25 mg on demand on top of my TRT test cream base works well for libido

 

[Forty2]

At the time it was 15mg/day shallow IM. I tried subQ Prop and didn't get nearly the same benefits, for what it's worth.

I mention this in the other thread, but the reason I moved on from Prop at the time was that my E2 was getting really high while my Free T was barely above 50% of the range.
I started getting bloated and having headaches daily.

Still, my libido, mood and confidence were incredible, unmatched by any other protocol although Cyp + Masteron came close. Sleep however was trash and I felt overstimulated a lot (apparently this goes away after a while for some people, I stopped that Prop experiment pretty quickly when I started getting daily headaches).

I'm about to try Prop + Mast (or Primo or Proviron) to see if I can essentially get the benefits from Test Prop without the negative sides from sky high E2

Please let us know how that experiment goes.
Your side effects from Prop don't really surprise me.
What does surprise me is all of the guys who are convinced that prop gives them less bloat than other esters.

 

[Seagal]

Do you mean that TRT caused ED?
I assumed that ED are those rare cases.
My T deficiency didn't cause ED. And my TRT hasn't caused ED. Hardness and sensitivity and orgasm intensity increased with TRT.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Do you mean that TRT caused ED?
I assumed that ED are those rare cases.
My T deficiency didn't cause ED. And my TRT hasn't caused ED. Hardness and sensitivity and orgasm intensity increased with TRT.

Inb4 everyone asks about the details of your protocol.

...no but seriously, what is it? Lol

 

[Seagal]

Inb4 everyone asks about the details of your protocol.

...no but seriously, what is it? Lol

It seems like low T cripples me mentally: depression, anhedonia, extreme fatigue, memory cognition etc down

I started on Androgel (2-3 dose limit by GP, Uro). First month great afterwards downhill. I added hcg, anastrozol, dhea, proviron. Felt like high estradiol and low T. Ultimately after more than one year on excelmale and many YouTube TRT channels I tried SC cyp, enan, undeca. Only TU gives me no inj site inflammation.
Since two months I switched from androgel to TU SC. I wanted to report this here but it is too soon and I had no blood test because it's problematic in Germany. Anyway, I decided I will trust my gut and symptoms.
Now I use 250mg weekly, once a week SC into glut region. Surprisingly no high E2 symptoms, sleep better, brain better. I front loaded TU within 4 weeks with about 400mg per week.

Long story short: I never had ED problems, I don't think that my protocol matters.
I knew that I'm sensitive to hormone fluctuations. Having no prescription for injections would make international traveling impossible. With TU I feel no fluctuations and with its very long half-life I think I could go abroad for few weeks without injections (and without lifting).
Regarding SC 'aromatization', my gut tells me that the glut region fat should aromatize much less than the belly fat.

 

[jmbb]

What does surprise me is all of the guys who are convinced that prop gives them less bloat than other esters.

I think the main reason this is anecdotally true because it forces people to inject more frequently. A lot of guys who switch to daily or eod on long esters notice the same drop in water weight.

 

[Forty2]

It seems like low T cripples me mentally: depression, anhedonia, extreme fatigue, memory cognition etc down

I started on Androgel (2-3 dose limit by GP, Uro). First month great afterwards downhill. I added hcg, anastrozol, dhea, proviron. Felt like high estradiol and low T. Ultimately after more than one year on excelmale and many YouTube TRT channels I tried SC cyp, enan, undeca. Only TU gives me no inj site inflammation.
Since two months I switched from androgel to TU SC. I wanted to report this here but it is too soon and I had no blood test because it's problematic in Germany. Anyway, I decided I will trust my gut and symptoms.
Now I use 250mg weekly, once a week SC into glut region. Surprisingly no high E2 symptoms, sleep better, brain better. I front loaded TU within 4 weeks with about 400mg per week.

Long story short: I never had ED problems, I don't think that my protocol matters.
I knew that I'm sensitive to hormone fluctuations. Having no prescription for injections would make international traveling impossible. With TU I feel no fluctuations and with its very long half-life I think I could go abroad for few weeks without injections (and without lifting).
Regarding SC 'aromatization', my gut tells me that the glut region fat should aromatize much less than the belly fat.

What are your testosterone blood levels on 250mg TU per week?
Are you still using hCG? If so, how much?

 

[Seagal]

What are your testosterone blood levels on 250mg TU per week?
Are you still using hCG? If so, how much?

Sorry, I don't have T lab values.
On purpose no hcg so far, because I'm still in the early phase of using TU. My weekly dose might change (most likely downwards) and I might reintroduce hcg.
On androgel my ejaculation volume dropped towards zero; hcg 2x500IU per week restored it to about 50-75%. It seems that the TU so far had no negative (rather positive) impact on this.

 

[camygod]

At the time it was 15mg/day shallow IM. I tried subQ Prop and didn't get nearly the same benefits, for what it's worth.

I mention this in the other thread, but the reason I moved on from Prop at the time was that my E2 was getting really high while my Free T was barely above 50% of the range.
I started getting bloated and having headaches daily.

Still, my libido, mood and confidence were incredible, unmatched by any other protocol although Cyp + Masteron came close. Sleep however was trash and I felt overstimulated a lot (apparently this goes away after a while for some people, I stopped that Prop experiment pretty quickly when I started getting daily headaches).

I'm about to try Prop + Mast (or Primo or Proviron) to see if I can essentially get the benefits from Test Prop without the negative sides from sky high E2

Didn you try lowering your prop dose ? Or even mixing with longer ester?

 

[Jerajera]

Didn you try lowering your prop dose ? Or even mixing with longer ester?

I tried all the way down to 10mg/day, but at that dose I didn't really feel I was on Test anymore; symptoms of pre-TRT started coming back. My trough levels came back at the bottom of the range after 24 hours and E2 at 2x the top of the range.

To be fair I was doing subQ at that point (vs shallow IM on 15mg/day) and subQ has been trash for me historically, yielding significantly lower levels than IM while yielding much higher E2 levels. I know many will say "How is this possible? Explain to me how that would work from a pharmacokinetic standpoint!" and I don't have the answer, but I know I changed nothing else to my protocol several times when switching from IM to subQ, gave it at least 8 weeks each time, and my levels always come back significantly lower and E2 higher. I'm sure there's a good explanation, unfortunately I don't have it but I also know there are many things that don't make sense "on paper" because we don't yet have the models to explain them, but they do happen and discarding them because they're not supposed to happen is a mistake.

So maybe I have some room to try 10-12mg/day IM.

I never tried mixing esters but I just got some Test Phenylpropionate and will try that as well. The half-life is 1.5 days vs 0.8 for Prop, and maybe that'll be closer to the sweet spot.

I'm hoping that between Prop and Phenyprop and some form of E2 control (Masteron, Primo, Aromasin, Proviron), I'll finally be able to find a good protocol.

If E2 control is easily fine tunable (with Mast P for example), then I could even reintroduce hCG and Pregnenolone/DHEA, which aromatize like nothing else for me and turn me into a horny depressed sponge.

 

[camygod]

I tried all the way down to 10mg/day, but at that dose I didn't really feel I was on Test anymore; symptoms of pre-TRT started coming back. My trough levels came back at the bottom of the range after 24 hours and E2 at 2x the top of the range.

To be fair I was doing subQ at that point (vs shallow IM on 15mg/day) and subQ has been trash for me historically, yielding significantly lower levels than IM while yielding much higher E2 levels. I know many will say "How is this possible? Explain to me how that would work from a pharmacokinetic standpoint!" and I don't have the answer, but I know I changed nothing else to my protocol several times when switching from IM to subQ, gave it at least 8 weeks each time, and my levels always come back significantly lower and E2 higher. I'm sure there's a good explanation, unfortunately I don't have it but I also know there are many things that don't make sense "on paper" because we don't yet have the models to explain them, but they do happen and discarding them because they're not supposed to happen is a mistake.

So maybe I have some room to try 10-12mg/day IM.

I never tried mixing esters but I just got some Test Phenylpropionate and will try that as well. The half-life is 1.5 days vs 0.8 for Prop, and maybe that'll be closer to the sweet spot.

I'm hoping that between Prop and Phenyprop and some form of E2 control (Masteron, Primo, Aromasin, Proviron), I'll finally be able to find a good protocol.

If E2 control is easily fine tunable (with Mast P for example), then I could even reintroduce hCG and Pregnenolone/DHEA, which aromatize like nothing else for me and turn me into a horny depressed sponge.

Sounds interesting
Fuck subq to hell with test prop just causes.pain for me I don't like sub q or trust it really.
I have never seen test pp for sale so will be interesting to hear how you get on with it
Are you high body fat or just unlucky and aromatise Alot? Good luck
Thanks for replying

 

[Jerajera]

Sounds interesting
Fuck subq to hell with test prop just causes.pain for me I don't like sub q or trust it really.
I have never seen test pp for sale so will be interesting to hear how you get on good luck
Thanks for replying

You're welcome and thank you for the good luck, I think we all need it.

Hopefully these experiments will yield good results and I can update this thread with information that might help others as well.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

To be fair I was doing subQ at that point (vs shallow IM on 15mg/day) and subQ has been trash for me historically, yielding significantly lower levels than IM while yielding much higher E2 levels. I know many will say "How is this possible? Explain to me how that would work from a pharmacokinetic standpoint!" and I don't have the answer, but I know I changed nothing else to my protocol several times when switching from IM to subQ, gave it at least 8 weeks each time, and my levels always come back significantly lower and E2 higher.

I started a thread on this very real phenomenon that has been reported over and over and over again, which includes my attempts to explain it:

Test ester metabolism and SC injections (everything we knew is wrong?)

I remember a long time ago asking the question of whether depositing a testosterone oil depot in fatty tissue surrounded by aromatase could potentially increase E2 production. The universal answer: no, it couldn't possibly, because testosterone can't aromatize until the ester is cleaved off...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Joseywales95]

Can't contribute much but my erection quality even with ED meds on trt is about 60% of the erection strength off trt. I've tried mutiple protocols as well ranging from 80-200 test per week adding hcg etc. Without TRT, my levels are low 300s but no issues with erection strength.

Wish I could have my cake and eat it too because on trt my energy and brainfog disappear.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Can't contribute much but my erection quality even with ED meds on trt is about 60% of the erection strength off trt. I've tried mutiple protocols as well ranging from 80-200 test per week adding hcg etc. Without TRT, my levels are low 300s but no issues with erection strength.

Wish I could have my cake and eat it too because on trt my energy and brainfog disappear.

How low have you gone with frequency of injection? How are your E2 levels on TRT versus off? Ever try an AI?