Vince Carter
Banned
1 you need to start a thread on your own particular problems without clogging this one up any further, 2 no one can possibly say you need an AI or not on a given dosage. No way at all.
What is the best dose of HCG? Dr Saya presents two case studies.
- Thread starter Dr Justin Saya MD
- Start date
Dear Dr. Saya,
I have secondary Hypogonadism and I've been on TRT for the past three years. My hope is that HcG can cause my testicles to manufacture more Testosterone on their own, so that I can rely less on exogenous T.
Prior to reading your study above I was on a protocol for about a year that comprised of BIW 55mg Testosterone Enathate injections and daily HcG injections. Per Dr. Crisler's advice I began with HcG dosage of 50IU daily and slowly worked my way up to 250-300IU daily -however that had only marginal effect on my T levels.
Last March after reading your HcG study I changed my HcG protocol to injecting 600IU three times a week without modifying the T injections. On my next blood test four months later my Total T jumped from 570 ng/dl to 790 ng/dl - increase of 40%. Success!
I reduced my exogenous T Enathate from 55mg twice a week to 45mg twice a week. A month and a half later my Total T blood work was still at 790 ng/dl. Continued success!
I continued for three more months at the same protocol, however now my Total T dropped to 534 ng/dl!!! [insert puzzled face]
I'll note that during the past year my SHBG was 16 and my E2 is on the high end of normal, managed with low dose Anastrozole.
It appears to me as if my LH receptors are down regulating due to receiving too much HcG over time. I am thinking of ceasing HcG treatment for a week and resuming with 500IU twice a week and seeing how that goes.
What is your take on the reason for the increase and decrease of Total T as described above? What would you recommend that I do now?
I have secondary Hypogonadism and I've been on TRT for the past three years. My hope is that HcG can cause my testicles to manufacture more Testosterone on their own, so that I can rely less on exogenous T.
Prior to reading your study above I was on a protocol for about a year that comprised of BIW 55mg Testosterone Enathate injections and daily HcG injections. Per Dr. Crisler's advice I began with HcG dosage of 50IU daily and slowly worked my way up to 250-300IU daily -however that had only marginal effect on my T levels.
Last March after reading your HcG study I changed my HcG protocol to injecting 600IU three times a week without modifying the T injections. On my next blood test four months later my Total T jumped from 570 ng/dl to 790 ng/dl - increase of 40%. Success!
I reduced my exogenous T Enathate from 55mg twice a week to 45mg twice a week. A month and a half later my Total T blood work was still at 790 ng/dl. Continued success!
I continued for three more months at the same protocol, however now my Total T dropped to 534 ng/dl!!! [insert puzzled face]
I'll note that during the past year my SHBG was 16 and my E2 is on the high end of normal, managed with low dose Anastrozole.
It appears to me as if my LH receptors are down regulating due to receiving too much HcG over time. I am thinking of ceasing HcG treatment for a week and resuming with 500IU twice a week and seeing how that goes.
What is your take on the reason for the increase and decrease of Total T as described above? What would you recommend that I do now?
Last edited:
Vince Carter
Banned
trying to get endo T thru HCG stimulation is rather frivolous...it's clearly not working well enough yet you persist in this false notion that you can achieve something. Interesting that in light of clear evidence to the contrary that you still chase your tail.
I.e., base your Test dose off of your Free T level and forget HCG is going to give you Endo T. If it worked that way we'd all be doing it. Secondary or not.
I.e., base your Test dose off of your Free T level and forget HCG is going to give you Endo T. If it worked that way we'd all be doing it. Secondary or not.
Dr Justin Saya MD
Moderator
Many potential reasons for variation in T levels, with leydig cell desensitization (per your concern) being a very unlikely one at your doses. Variation in timing of T injection or variable leydig response to individual HCG injections are possibilities. My opinion would be to hold steady on regimen and recheck.
This Thread was amazing... Read every post.. thanks to all who contributed.... I just started the HCG journey after 9 plus years on TRT without HCG and feeling like crap, depressed, fatigued, sleep/insomnia issues, memory/cognitive lapses, etc... at the moment I am on 140mg of Test Cyp (ED/SQ) and 350iu HCG/pregnyl m/w/f... I have been on this regime for about 2 full weeks now and although it's still early I have noticed more mental clarity and in the last 2 days been able to fall asleep without the need of nyquil and/or ambien.... energy and motivation seems teetering on getting better... let's see what happens in the next few weeks....
Awesome to hear. Glad you’re feeling some improvement in all those areas. Do you mind if I ask where you were able to fill your Pregnyl prescription? When I go back on HCG, I plan on using Pregnyl, but my local CVS and Walgreens both weren’t able to get it.
Also, just to clarify, are you using 350iu’s total per week, or 1050iu’s?
BJE
Active Member
A practical consideration that I have taken into account in determining my hCG dose is that the Pregnyl brand hCG which I use comes in 10,000IU vials which after being mixed are supposed to be used within 60 days. 10,000 IU‘s injecting every other day over 60 days equals 333IU per injection. Which happily falls within the range the doctor suggests.
And Pregnyl definitely keeps its potency for at least 60 days. I’ve had multiple labs drawn while on Pregnyl, while on the same dose, and had almost identical results. Sometimes I had labs drawn after cracking a new bottle, and also had labs while finishing up a vial. Results were almost identical. Pregnyl appeared to not lose any potency at all nearing the 60 day mark. This was all on HCG monotherapy btw. So no other variables to consider. I think Pregnyl holds its potency so well due to the inactive ingredients. Opposed to other brands of HCG that are just lyophilized powder and bacteriostatic water.
Good question. I live 25 minutes north of Boston. Where I live isn’t rural at all. I used to get it no problem at CVS. Now they can’t get it. Walgreens said the same thing. Seems like others have been able to get it no problem though, so I’m always curious where they are filling their prescription. One guy said he gets his from walgreens, and another said he gets it filled through walmart’s specialty pharmacy, and they deliver it to him. When I start back on HCG, I plan on calling walmart’s specialty pharmacy to see if they can get it for me.
This is interesting. Making me reconsider going to hcg 3x a week at a lower dose rather than sticking with 500ius twice weekly.
I’m taking hcg with my trt to maintain fertility at 360 ius 3x weekly.
For fertility purposes, it appears higher magnitude/2x weekly injections would be best...?
I’m taking hcg with my trt to maintain fertility at 360 ius 3x weekly.
For fertility purposes, it appears higher magnitude/2x weekly injections would be best...?
In my experience for fertility purposes you need higher single dosages. Example: when i changed from 400IU 2x week to 300IU x a week my sperm count went back to almost zero. I think you need a certain levels of stimulus that can only be achieved at certain dosage and the peak and average concentration matters here
True. Higher HCG dosage = higher estradiol. TRT is a balancing act
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