What are the side effects of high testosterone?

[Willyt]

What is your weekly dose now? If I recall you were doing daily shots at one time ?

Yes, I am still on daily low dose - 8mg of propionate in the AM via subq. I still think @Cataceous blend is the way to go for low dose daily, but unfortunately the medium esters like cypionate and enanthate cause me to take on substantial water weight, which causes a slew of health issues (I am not alone on this forum in that regard).

I get zero water gain on Propionate although it does pose its own set of challenges dealing with the higher peaks and troughs.

 

[tareload]

Yes, I am still on daily low dose - 8mg of propionate in the AM via subq. I still think @Cataceous blend is the way to go for low dose daily, but unfortunately the medium esters like cypionate and enanthate cause me to take on substantial water weight, which causes a slew of health issues (I am not alone on this forum in that regard).

I get zero water gain on Propionate although it does pose its own set of challenges dealing with the higher peaks and troughs.

Would be interesting to analyze /pontificate on why this is...maybe you guys already discussed (I haven't looked).

PK of prop vs cyp/enan and effect on Aldosterone/mineralocorticoid / RAAS response?

Have you tried TNE(suspension) or natesto or troche and does that also remove the water issue?

 

[Willyt]

Would be interesting to analyze /pontificate on why this is...maybe you guys already discussed (I haven't looked).

PK of prop vs cyp/enan and effect on Aldosterone/mineralocorticoid / RAAS response?

Have you tried TNE(suspension) or natesto or troche and does that also remove the water issue?

Yes, same result on Natesto although in fairness I was only using it once per day in my experiment (versus the recommended 3x per day)

My pre-workout Natesto experiment - Embrace your natural trough!

What if you could enjoy the benefits of exogenous testosterone - even if on a limited basis - while minimizing many of the usual side effects? I was determined to find out through a very unscientific experiment with Natesto, a short-acting nasal testosterone gel discussed numerous times on...

www.excelmale.com

I've also been curious about why the faster acting forms would cause less water retention. Like many, I have read the anecdotes about body builders substituting prop during cutting phase for competitions (not that I know anything about the BB world!). It would be interesting to hear your thoughts.

 

[Dicky]

Yes.
Yes.
Almost 4 years on TRT. Typically 80-120 mg/week of TC (on and off hCG). Played with 1x and 2x per week injections.

Total T between 1500 and 1200 ng/dl (peak) and 500-800 ng/dl (trough). I can get into fT/SHBG and all that if you are interested.

Two short stints of oxandrolone (4 weeks at 25-50 mg/day and another 6 weeks at 15 mg/day). Lipids/particle counts were crushed so I stopped.

Two ~19 week trials of Nandrolone Decanoate (80-120 mg/week). Extreme effect on mood, libido, ED, depression.

Massive effect on lean body mass. I can carry an additional 20-25 lb at same low bodyfat level on TRT + other AAS (not alway a good thing, especially on the heart). Combine with nutty weight training and lots of Tabata/HIIT and you may be asking for trouble (especially as you reach middle age).

Don't know what caused my current issue but plan is to reduce TRT dosage down to 50-70 mg/week and then eventually transition to Natesto/Equivalent or hCG then some type of PCT and see if I can get close to original endogenous TT level of 380-400 ng/dl. 6-12 months at significantly lower TT/fT levels should give me some indication if remodeling is possible and if the issue is athlete's heart or pathologic hypertrophy. I'll keep the exercise / pressure loading the same (although of course it won't be as the poundages will come down on the weights).

I think that's a poorly discussed synergy between PED/AAS/TRT and weight training for those that are predisposed to these types of heart issues. More lean body mass, more pressure loading with more weight lifted, more anabolic potential on the heart. I haven't done a PLS model to try and decouple it all.

Want to do TRT/TOT (after having done everything else correct...diet, training, etc) and you are on the borderline between clinical needed TRT and lifestyle TOT? Be careful what you wish for. I almost had myself deluded I could very wisely use anabolic therapies and there was a free lunch. The current data I have in hand seems to indicate there probably wasn't a free lunch and the bill has come due.

Thanks for taking a look and the thoughtful questions.

Thanks for expanding on that. It's a lot to think about. I am carrying 20 pounds more than I was 5 years ago, due to weightlifting. My TT levels are troughing at 400-500, which means my peaks are way higher than I ever was natty. I am 58 now. I got tested when I was in my 40's. I was at 350ng/dl. So I am clearly higher now than I was natty.

Your protocol seems pretty innocuous. I don't think it would register too high on the "danger-meter" for most observers.

I had an echo done 2 years ago and the cardiologist didn't flag anything. I also had one done before I started TRT. Perhaps I should book an appointment w/ the cardiologist to compare them for me.

 

[Logitech]

What are the side effects of high testosterone?
If a person has a TT higher than the normal range but has no side effects is that a bad thing?
If so, why?

To understand the difference I doubled my dose last year for about 6 Months. I felt nothing good than my normal dose but I gained my weight by 9 kg it was not expected though but it happened. I got my lab tests done where my testosterone was high and E2 was within limit.

 

[Fortunate]

And to clarify, I'm speaking about potential risks of running your testosterone above your original hypothetical functional setpoint. At 18 years old was your peak TT level 400, 600, 800 ng/dl? Maybe you never had one and you've always been HH. For those that voluntarily go on TRT/TOT (because their PCP would never in a million years prescribe Testosterone), a word of caution.

Pre-TRT were you at 350 ng/dl peak? What's the risk now that you are running 1200 ng/dl (peak) and 500-600 ng/dl (trough). You are still "in range" from a population/95% distribution standpoint. But, so what? That still may be supraphysiologic for you. When you get into all the ion transporters in the body, all sorts of feedback loops, gene expression, receptors, etc, etc we have no idea what's going to happen 5-10 years down the road. All quite individual. It's the TRT/TOT equivalent of Goldman's Dilemma.

I am jumping in the middle of the thread, so maybe there are answers below. @readalot, Will you keep keep us posted if you decide to try Natesto? I have been on it for many years. More recently, I have been Xyosted. Much more convenient and probably overall more effective. But, I think side effects are more significant. Once again, giving some thought to flipping back to Natesto.