Very Low IGF-1 and IGF Binding Protein 3 levels. Advice?

[Wild_Man]

Hello. Long time lurker here but this is only my 2nd post.

I'm 20 years old but for some reason, my IGF-1 and IGF BP-3 levels are extremely low. The Z-score is really bad, so I am literally 1.65 standard deviations below a healthy level for my age. I have had this tested multiple times by different labs to be sure.

Anecdotally, this makes sense since I have fractured multiple bones from doing very normal activities and they all took AGES to heal.

I've scheduled an appointment with Defy so that we can take care of this. But I heard that they can't prescribe CJC-1295 or Ipamorelin anymore for some reason. So it looks like my only options are HGH, Sermorelin Acetate, Bremelanotide (PT-141), and Sarcotropin (Oral).

I did some reading and it looks like HGH is just straight up HGH whereas Sermorelin, Bremelaotide, and Sarcotropin (active ingredient being Sarcotyn) are peptides that mimic GHRH at the level of the pituitary gland.

Can I get some advice on what is best to take and what the risks are? I know that I'm in good hands with Defy but I want a second opinion.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Low IGFBP-3 and IGF-1 levels are typically observed in GH deficiency or GH resistance. Now getting a prescription for HGH is almost impossible unless you have the following:

1. HGH deficiency in children might result in dwarfism
2. Adult HGH deficiency due to tumors in the brain and their treatment like radiation therapy
3. Muscle wasting illness related to HIV/AIDs

My suggestion is using peptides or even MK 677 to get the GH levels up, thus the IGF-1 IGFBP-3 levels also increase. Of course as you said, DEFY is not selling what you need., What they do have is Sermorelin, and Sarcotropin which are both GHRHs. The other option, PT-141 is not going to help at all. The other two GHRHs have very short half lives (<5min) so are the GH response is very weak, plus as IGF-1 levels rise, somatotropin can shut the pituitary output of GH down. So the results you get will be very minimal. This is why we always suggest taking a GHRP with a GHRH to help avoid rises in somatotropin and keep the pituitary pulsing an abundance of GH. You would be much better taking MK 677 with is similar in action to a GHRP or taking Modified GRF (1-29) and a GHRP (Ipamorelin, GHRP 2, GHRP 6 or Hexarelin). These can be much more cheaply found at a peptide store on the internet.

 

[Wild_Man]

Low IGFBP-3 and IGF-1 levels are typically observed in GH deficiency or GH resistance. Now getting a prescription for HGH is almost impossible unless you have the following:

1. HGH deficiency in children might result in dwarfism
2. Adult HGH deficiency due to tumors in the brain and their treatment like radiation therapy
3. Muscle wasting illness related to HIV/AIDs

My suggestion is using peptides or even MK 677 to get the GH levels up, thus the IGF-1 IGFBP-3 levels also increase. Of course as you said, DEFY is not selling what you need., What they do have is Sermorelin, and Sarcotropin which are both GHRHs. The other option, PT-141 is not going to help at all. The other two GHRHs have very short half lives (<5min) so are the GH response is very weak, plus as IGF-1 levels rise, somatotropin can shut the pituitary output of GH down. So the results you get will be very minimal. This is why we always suggest taking a GHRP with a GHRH to help avoid rises in somatotropin and keep the pituitary pulsing an abundance of GH. You would be much better taking MK 677 with is similar in action to a GHRP or taking Modified GRF (1-29) and a GHRP (Ipamorelin, GHRP 2, GHRP 6 or Hexarelin). These can be much more cheaply found at a peptide store on the internet.

Thank you BigTex.

I am 5'11" tall, so I probably didn't have this GH Deficiency as an adolescent. I'm 20 y/o and stopped growing at about 16 or 17 so this must have happened in the past 3-4 years. Maybe I could have been taller if this deficiency didn't happen though, who knows.

Regarding your mention of HIV/AIDS, I definitely do not have them. I got a blood test for HIV when my doc saw these low IGF-1 numbers and it came back negative.

Ok, just to clarify, you mentioned that the best options are these, right?
1. MK 677
2. A Modified GRF (1-29) and a GHRP (Ipamorelin, GHRP 2, GHRP 6 or Hexarelin)

Defy mentioned that they will entertain a discussion about prescribing HGH rather than the peptides I listed. So that is an option. I don't know how expensive it will be though. Would you recommend HGH over the 2 options I listed above?

 

[Systemlord]

Blows to the head can cause GH deficiency.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Thank you BigTex.

I am 5'11" tall, so I probably didn't have this GH Deficiency as an adolescent. I'm 20 y/o and stopped growing at about 16 or 17 so this must have happened in the past 3-4 years. Maybe I could have been taller if this deficiency didn't happen though, who knows.

Regarding your mention of HIV/AIDS, I definitely do not have them. I got a blood test for HIV when my doc saw these low IGF-1 numbers and it came back negative.

Ok, just to clarify, you mentioned that the best options are these, right?
1. MK 677
2. A Modified GRF (1-29) and a GHRP (Ipamorelin, GHRP 2, GHRP 6 or Hexarelin)

Defy mentioned that they will entertain a discussion about prescribing HGH rather than the peptides I listed. So that is an option. I don't know how expensive it will be though. Would you recommend HGH over the 2 options I listed above?

HGH is a great option. If you can get the script. However, you will be paying cash no doubt because HGH is very rarely covered by insurance. The cost for pharma HGH is totally ridiculous. https://www.goodrx.com/classes/recombinant-human-growth-hormones

 

[Wild_Man]

Blows to the head can cause GH deficiency.

I hit my head pretty bad falling off a skateboard going very fast and got a concussion at age 15. I temporarily lost memory of the past 48 hours but then it came back to me slowly.

But other than that, I've never hit my head. Never played organized football or anything either.

Is one concussion enough to do something like this?

 

[Wild_Man]

One of the reasons they hesitate to prescribe Hgh is because it is a GROWTH hormone, it essentially grows everything. That small lump on your prostate you do not know about and won't for another 30 years will grow just as much as muscles etc...

A lot of people abuse Hgh hence the heistation from Drs. BigTex was right though, Modified GRF (1-29) and a GHRP (Ipamorelin, GHRP 2, GHRP 6 or Hexarelin) are much better options.

Is there still a risk of growing lumps and stuff on HGH if I keep my IGF-1 levels within the normal physiological range?

 

[Wild_Man]

HGH is a great option. If you can get the script. However, you will be paying cash no doubt because HGH is very rarely covered by insurance. The cost for pharma HGH is totally ridiculous. https://www.goodrx.com/classes/recombinant-human-growth-hormones

$800/month? F-that. I'd rather buy CJC-1295 and Ipamorelin or the other stuff that you mentioned from a UGL.

I forgot to ask you before, where does the CJC-1295/Ipamorelin combo rank for you among options 1 and 2 I listed in a previous reply? Basically, which one is best when you include CJC/Ipa as a contendor?

 

[Deleted member 43589]

$800/month? F-that. I'd rather buy CJC-1295 and Ipamorelin or the other stuff that you mentioned from a UGL.

I forgot to ask you before, where does the CJC-1295/Ipamorelin combo rank for you among options 1 and 2 I listed in a previous reply? Basically, which one is best when you include CJC/Ipa as a contendor?

As far as benefits to costs.....#1. Most people prefer Ipamorelin because it does not have the side effect of hunger.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

I hit my head pretty bad falling off a skateboard going very fast and got a concussion at age 15. I temporarily lost memory of the past 48 hours but then it came back to me slowly.

But other than that, I've never hit my head. Never played organized football or anything either.

Is one concussion enough to do something like this?

Utility of serum IGF-1 for diagnosis of growth hormone deficiency following traumatic brain injury and sport-related concussion - BMC Endocrine Disorders

Background Growth hormone deficiency (GHD) is a potential consequence of traumatic brain injury (TBI), including sport-related concussion (SRC). GH stimulation testing is required for definitive diagnosis; however, this is resource intensive and can be associated with adverse symptoms or risks...

bmcendocrdisord.biomedcentral.com

"Therefore, even individuals who sustain a single concussion from non-contact sports appear to be susceptible to developing some degree of pituitary dysfunction."

Is this enough to get a script from a doctor, I rather doubt it. DEA and FDA have some very tight controls on HGH, seem more so that opiates. Most doctors just don't want to be investigated.

 

[Systemlord]

I hit my head pretty bad falling off a skateboard going very fast and got a concussion at age 15.

A concussion, even if you recover from it, data shows later in life, it leads to cognitive decline.

 

[Wild_Man]

THEORETICALLY no, but I am not a doctor and could not confirm or not confirm it. Plus each person is unique in how they react to any given compound.

I am just not able to give you a yes or no, sorry.

Ur good man, thanks for all the input thus far.

 

[Wild_Man]

Utility of serum IGF-1 for diagnosis of growth hormone deficiency following traumatic brain injury and sport-related concussion - BMC Endocrine Disorders

Background Growth hormone deficiency (GHD) is a potential consequence of traumatic brain injury (TBI), including sport-related concussion (SRC). GH stimulation testing is required for definitive diagnosis; however, this is resource intensive and can be associated with adverse symptoms or risks...

bmcendocrdisord.biomedcentral.com

"Therefore, even individuals who sustain a single concussion from non-contact sports appear to be susceptible to developing some degree of pituitary dysfunction."

Is this enough to get a script from a doctor, I rather doubt it. DEA and FDA have some very tight controls on HGH, seem more so that opiates. Most doctors just don't want to be investigated.

A few things.

1. So even Defy would have some hesitation in prescribing me HGH because of the tight controls put on HGH?

2. Also, it's weird that my head injury would make me unable to produce Growth Hormone and not the other pituitary hormones. My LH, FSH, TSH, Prolactin, and ACTH are all at good normal levels. Does that make sense?

3. Btw, these are the requirement that my insurance has for HGH prescriptions. I already satisfy criteria b. by a landslide. I would just need to satisfy criteria a.

 

[Wild_Man]

A concussion, even if you recover from it, data shows later in life, it leads to cognitive decline.

Sucks for me ig.

It's weird that my head injury would make me unable to produce Growth Hormone and not the other pituitary hormones. My LH, FSH, TSH, Prolactin, and ACTH are all at good normal levels. Does that make sense? I guess anything can happen but I'm trying to think through this analytically.

Are there any other circumstances you know of that are known to cause low IGF-1 and low IGF BP3? Google wouldn't really help me out on this one.

 

[Systemlord]

Sucks for me ig.

It's weird that my head injury would make me unable to produce Growth Hormone and not the other pituitary hormones. My LH, FSH, TSH, Prolactin, and ACTH are all at good normal levels. Does that make sense? I guess anything can happen but I'm trying to think through this analytically.

Are there any other circumstances you know of that are known to cause low IGF-1 and low IGF BP3? Google wouldn't really help me out on this one.

I was reading about it the other day, two twins from the WW2 era, one had a concussion, the other did not. The one with the concussion, even though he fully recovered, he paid the price later.

I smashed my head into the ground at Disneyland when I was 15, running at high speed, slid into and knocked a couple off their feet, falling onto me, hit the back of my head on the pavement hard, lost consciousness for 30 minutes and woke up with the worst freaking headache I’ve ever had in my life!

I went about the day as if nothing at all happened.

I don’t have low IGF-1, 289 last time I checked. My IGF-1 was on the lower end when I was iron deficient. Not even peptides through Defy Medical increased it, iron supplements did.

My IGF-1 went from 139->289, a significant increase!

 

[Deleted member 43589]

A few things.

1. So even Defy would have some hesitation in prescribing me HGH because of the tight controls put on HGH?

2. Also, it's weird that my head injury would make me unable to produce Growth Hormone and not the other pituitary hormones. My LH, FSH, TSH, Prolactin, and ACTH are all at good normal levels. Does that make sense?

3. Btw, these are the requirement that my insurance has for HGH prescriptions. I already satisfy criteria b. by a landslide. I would just need to satisfy criteria a.


View attachment 36729

If your insurance is going to pay, go with the HGH. Congratulations.

 

[Wild_Man]

If your insurance is going to pay, go with the HGH. Congratulations.

Hell yeah. Hopefully my GP will prescribe me the tests for criteria a and I can pass.

 

[Wild_Man]

Looks like A should not b a problem for you based on what you said earlier.

At least it will be doctor-prescribed and properly monitored, that's #1 for safety!

I hope so. It would suck if my pituitary has the ABILITY to make GH but it has just decided not to for some reason.

I read somewhere that low levels of body fat can cause adult-onset GH-deficiency. Apparently, your body thinks you're in a starvation state and down-regulates GH production.

I have pretty low body fat levels (~8%) just by nature of me being 20 y/o and still having a high metabolism from when I was a kid. I never thought that it was an issue since I still eat 2300-2500 calories per day. But maybe I'm in the "unhealthy territory" of body fat levels. I've never tried to diet/shred or anything so I never considered this to be a possibility.

With my IGF-1 labs, my leptin level was also tested and it was pretty low. These were the results:

My height is 5'11" and my weight is 159 lbs so BMI is 22.2. But I'm mostly muscle and very little fat so although the BMI is in the healthy range, less of it is fat than with the avg person. So I can see my body thinking that I'm in a starvation state I guess.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[Keepfit1]

One of the reasons they hesitate to prescribe Hgh is because it is a GROWTH hormone, it essentially grows everything. That small lump on your prostate you do not know about and won't for another 30 years will grow just as much as muscles etc...

A lot of people abuse Hgh hence the heistation from Drs. BigTex was right though, Modified GRF (1-29) and a GHRP (Ipamorelin, GHRP 2, GHRP 6 or Hexarelin) are much better options.

I also need to raise my IGF-1 and 3, I tried Ipamorelin but after about 5 days I started to feel strung out/stressed , I wondered if it lowered cortisol?. I have seen few others on forums reporting same on Ipamorelin. I have some GRF (1-29) but have not tried it yet as felt awful after Ipamorelin , is there other peptides or combos I could try , wary of MK etc re the hunger issues. I was taking 100mcg of Ipamorelin at night, when i stopt it I felt okay again about a week later

 

[Keepfit1]

Ever try IGF1 lr-3 ?

Strange you should mention that, is that a synthetic version of IGF-1? Dr Hertoghe recommends a cocktail of about 75%GH and 25% IGF-1 because he says HGH lowers cortisol and IGF-1 raises it . He also reckons older guys dont benefit so much from GH and need the IGF-1. I tried GH only and felt bad on it.