Using nandrolone with Testosterone for less side effects

[Jinzang]

Not all studies mention dose in the abstract.. The two studies that mention dose are, first, a rat study:

"10 mg/kg body weight of nandrolone was administered intramuscularly twice a week for 8 weeks. This dose is comparable with a dose frequently used by heavy AAS abusers [1600 mg a week for a 80 kg man]."

The second, a rabbit study used a much larger dose:

" The effect of chronic treatment for 16 weeks with testosterone (25 mg−1 kg−1 week−1) and nandrolone (50 mg−1 kg−1 week−1) on serum lipids of male hypercholesterolemic New Zealand rabbits was investigated. [2000 mg and 4000 mg a week for a 80 kg man]"

Must have been some big bunnies by the end of the 16 weeks. So the relevance of these results to doses that would typically be used in TRT (no more than 150 mg a week) is not clear.

 

[Will Brink]

Not all studies mention dose in the abstract.. The two studies that mention dose are, first, a rat study:

"10 mg/kg body weight of nandrolone was administered intramuscularly twice a week for 8 weeks. This dose is comparable with a dose frequently used by heavy AAS abusers [1600 mg a week for a 80 kg man]."

The second, a rabbit study used a much larger dose:

" The effect of chronic treatment for 16 weeks with testosterone (25 mg−1 kg−1 week−1) and nandrolone (50 mg−1 kg−1 week−1) on serum lipids of male hypercholesterolemic New Zealand rabbits was investigated. [2000 mg and 4000 mg a week for a 80 kg man]"

Must have been some big bunnies by the end of the 16 weeks. So the relevance of these results to doses that would typically be used in TRT (no more than 150 mg a week) is not clear.

So essentially they were designed to find an effect, a negative effect. I'd be amazed if such doses didn't result in a negative outcome of some sort. Lets try 20x the dose of all manner of drugs we know to be safe at typical therapeutic doses and see what happens... So, human studies using doses actually reflective of a therapeutic human dose, is what we need. Those are essentially of no value at all to making any clinical decisions, although it's not uncommon to see lipid changes at typical bbing doses, which are still well below the above. 200mg-800mg were pretty typical bbing doses, but of course rarely used alone, so again, confounders that don't allow accurate choices.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

"The effect of chronic treatment for 16 weeks with testosterone (25 mg−1 kg−1 week−1) and nandrolone (50 mg−1 kg−1 week−1)"

Which is equivalent to 2000 mg per week of T and 4,000 mg nandrolone per week for an 80 Kg (175 Lb) man.

Common! LOL

 

[Jeromefrance]

What About a lowdose masteron like 75mg per week ?

 

[Will Brink]

"The effect of chronic treatment for 16 weeks with testosterone (25 mg−1 kg−1 week−1) and nandrolone (50 mg−1 kg−1 week−1)"

Which is equivalent to 2000 mg per week of T and 4,000 mg nandrolone per week for an 80 Kg (175 Lb) man.

Common! LOL

That the rats/mice/rabbits didn't just drop dead half way through the study at those doses is litteraly support for the relative safety of that compound.

 

[Will Brink]

What About a lowdose masteron like 75mg per week ?

Little data, different AAS, so really no conclusions to be made from this nandrolone data in my view.

 

[wernerbrewer]

"The effect of chronic treatment for 16 weeks with testosterone (25 mg−1 kg−1 week−1) and nandrolone (50 mg−1 kg−1 week−1)"

Which is equivalent to 2000 mg per week of T and 4,000 mg nandrolone per week for an 80 Kg (175 Lb) man.

Common! LOL

HOLY SHITE! That's alot of grapeseed oil in your tissues!

 

[maxadvance]

The issue with nandrolone is that it wreaks havoc on the arteries. If it weren't for that, I'd be an advocate for its use (although there is some data suggesting it is neurotoxic). For patients with legitimate cachexia, it's one thing to improve their quality of life at the expense of long-term risk, but the prospect of heart disease is just too dangerous for otherwise healthy men. The data I've seen suggests that even a low dose (50-100mg) could pose a serious risk to cardiovascular health.

I'm with Will, what is your source, please post it?

 

[masfield]

i guess i'm one of the few here taking both t and n (in my case, for a muscle wasting disease). both at 200 mg twice a week dosages. i started at 300 each, but i've gotten terrible acne, face, chest, back, arms, so i've reduced the doses by a third. it's been about six weeks now, with no change in the acne, for which i've also tried zinc soap, selsen blue, all different manner of things. just started doxy a week ago and no change with that yet either.

anyway, i don't believe i've experienced side effects from the n but then again i'm not sure what i'd be looking for.

my muscle atrophy hasn't gotten any worse since starting about 2 years aafio, but not any better either. i'm afraid to stop now, just 'cause if things did get worse, i'd be getting very close to life in a wheelchair.

 

[maxadvance]

i guess i'm one of the few here taking both t and n (in my case, for a muscle wasting disease). both at 200 mg twice a week dosages. i started at 300 each, but i've gotten terrible acne, face, chest, back, arms, so i've reduced the doses by a third. it's been about six weeks now, with no change in the acne, for which i've also tried zinc soap, selsen blue, all different manner of things. just started doxy a week ago and no change with that yet either.

anyway, i don't believe i've experienced side effects from the n but then again i'm not sure what i'd be looking for.

my muscle atrophy hasn't gotten any worse since starting about 2 years aafio, but not any better either. i'm afraid to stop now, just 'cause if things did get worse, i'd be getting very close to life in a wheelchair.

The acne is from the deca for sure, try Nizoral, it's the only thing that semi works for me

 

[masfield]

i'll give it a go, thanks. only reason i haven't is, you can only get 1% here in the u.s, and my understanding is that it takes 2%.

 

[warrior1]

But boy do you feel good on it, no joint pain, muscle fullness, no bloating etc. I like 150mg per week mixed with test.

 

[Cope]

I had shoulder surgery 2 months ago and it was recommended to try low dose Deca to help with recovery. So I started this week, with 100mg per week, split e3.5 along with my T. I hope it works.

 

[Another Great Day]

I had shoulder surgery 2 months ago and it was recommended to try low dose Deca to help with recovery. So I started this week, with 100mg per week, split e3.5 along with my T. I hope it works.

I had shoulder surgery 2 months ago and it was recommended to try low dose Deca to help with recovery. So I started this week, with 100mg per week, split e3.5 along with my T. I hope it works.

Hi, Did this help with your recovery?

 

[wernerbrewer]

Updates?

 

[Cope]

Yes, sorry, took longer to get Deca than I expected. So, I am on week 5, running 150 mg Deca per week, split e3.5d, with my normal injections. My physical therapist is amazed at the progress I have made. Pain is way down, basically I don’t notice it. Range of motion is the current fight but that is going great since I have recovered 100% of my previous strength and the pain no longer prevents stretching.

 

[Another Great Day]

Great, thanks for the update.

 

[Cope]

After 10 weeks of taking a low dose of Deca, I have stopped. I was planning on 12 weeks but i figured 10 was a good test. My results were great. Should strength increased above where I was before surgery. My range of motion is almost back to normal and my therapist predicts I will be throwing a baseball by the end of the month. Only negative was the water retention. I really feel it in my hands, in the morning. Since my last shot last Thursday, I’m already down 6 lbs, while body fat % has not changed. If joint pain returns, I would definitely do it again, but would have a diuretic or AI on hand to deal with the water.

 

[Another Great Day]

Great news! Thanks for the update. How much water weight was associated with the 150mg Deca?

 

[Cope]

I figure it will take a couple weeks to come out, and I’m hoping the 12ish pounds I gained in the 12 weeks was mostly water. Will update in 10 days or so.