Using low dose T3 as replacement for caffeine

[Joe Sixpack]

I keep thinking ritalin would be a better and safer replacement for caffeine.

I could likely get a prescription for ritalin since I do have ADD?

Probably you could. I have used ritilin in the past as well. It is very effective. Way more effective than caffeine. I cup of coffee will tide me over for 1-2 hours. Ritilin works for 3-4. Extended release even longer.

BUT, since ritilin is a controlled substance it is more of a pain to get. In my state the doc has to write a written script every month. He can't just call it in. So you have to stop by your docs office each month.

I have concerns about using ritilin long term. I do not think it is safer than caffeine. But that's a whole other bag of worms.

 

[DragonBits]

Probably you could. I have used ritilin in the past as well. It is very effective. Way more effective than caffeine. I cup of coffee will tide me over for 1-2 hours. Ritilin works for 3-4. Extended release even longer.

BUT, since ritilin is a controlled substance it is more of a pain to get. In my state the doc has to write a written script every month. He can't just call it in. So you have to stop by your docs office each month.

I have concerns about using ritilin long term. I do not think it is safer than caffeine. But that's a whole other bag of worms.

I almost feel immune to caffeine, my mother is even worse, she drinks coffee right up to bed time.

If I don't get caffeine, I do get the typical headache withdrawal symptom. But I don't get all that much of a boost from it, I have developed too high a tolerance. But it does seem to help get me going in the morning.

 

[Vtail]

I almost feel immune to caffeine, my mother is even worse, she drinks coffee right up to bed time.

If I don't get caffeine, I do get the typical headache withdrawal symptom. But I don't get all that much of a boost from it, I have developed too high a tolerance. But it does seem to help get me going in the morning.

You ever try Modafinil? I've been using it off and on for years. For me its much more effective than caffeine. It's a prescription drug but you can get it overseas without.

 

[DragonBits]

You ever try Modafinil? I've been using it off and on for years. For me its much more effective than caffeine. It's a prescription drug but you can get it overseas without.

Thanks, but I don't have a problem staying awake, my main problem is staying asleep through the night. Though I have a lot of things that would wake anyone up, there is also a tendency to wake up often even taking that into account.

It I did get ritalin, it would be for ADD.

 

[drkelp]

I use 50mcg t4 daily for hypo, tried adding t3 a couple of times my temperature actually goes down. No idea why...

 

[dikow]

You can't live without cortisol. The symptoms you have say you don't have enough to support the T3 your taking. You have to have a sufficient amount of cortisol before you can use T3.

Symptoms of low cortisol - Stop The Thyroid Madness

I have high cortisol, which I think contributes to my fatigue in the morning. Do you think T3 would help in my case?

 

[captain]

I have high cortisol, which I think contributes to my fatigue in the morning. Do you think T3 would help in my case?

What is the cause of the high cortisol level? Fatigue and elevated cortisol is linked to Sleep Apnea.

 

[dikow]

What is the cause of the high cortisol level? Fatigue and elevated cortisol is linked to Sleep Apnea.

I don't have apnea. But I have all the symptoms of the so called "adrenal fatigue". Would T3 help with this?

 

[captain]

I would think if you have adrenal fatigue T3 would make you worse. Adrenal fatigue would be inadequate cortisol. You said you have elevated cortisol.

 

[dickielongate]

I totally quit caffeine. I always knew it made me jittery and I didn't like the dependence. Medically speaking it's dependence not addiction as is often stated, but it's a real thing. I do believe many caffeine users find that in the morning it gets them going, but later in the day, it's less effective.

I do also believe when tolerance is low enough, the euphoria of caffeine can be great. But once some of us enter the stage of higher tolerance, as is typical, the effect can be more like staving off dependence.

There is no doubt caffeine dependence and effects on mood, blood pressure, cortisol regulation are varied from person to person, so I'm sure it's fine for many. For me it's really not fine. I've spent 20+ years with cortisol out of whack, and retrospectively, can now appreciate how it affected my interactions with people. Since quitting caffeine and adding in ashwaghanda, I can honestly say I'm a different person. Very interesting to learn that my chemistry rather than psychology was at the root of my experiences.

I had borderline low t4 and high tsh (5-6) when starting TRT. I never felt as I hoped i would on TRT until I ditched caffeine and added NDT and modafinil. Right now I feel better than ever. If you want to feel 'stimulated', caffeine or ritalin might be preferable to you. For me being stimulated means I am not 'myself'. I've really enjoyed being completely calm and yet alert, something I've never managed before.

 

[fifty]

How long have you been off caffeine?

 

[Vince]

1. Cortisol decreases TSH, lowering thyroid hormone production.

2. Cortisol inhibits the conversion of T4 to active T3, and increases the conversion of T4 to reverse T3.

The other most significant indirect effect the adrenals have on thyroid function is via their influence on blood sugar. High or low cortisol can cause hypoglycemica, hyperglycemia or both. Blood sugar imbalances cause hypothyroid symptoms in a variety of ways.

Cortisol and Thyroid Hormones | Hypothyroid Mom

 

[Gman86]

I totally quit caffeine. I always knew it made me jittery and I didn't like the dependence. Medically speaking it's dependence not addiction as is often stated, but it's a real thing. I do believe many caffeine users find that in the morning it gets them going, but later in the day, it's less effective.

I do also believe when tolerance is low enough, the euphoria of caffeine can be great. But once some of us enter the stage of higher tolerance, as is typical, the effect can be more like staving off dependence.

There is no doubt caffeine dependence and effects on mood, blood pressure, cortisol regulation are varied from person to person, so I'm sure it's fine for many. For me it's really not fine. I've spent 20+ years with cortisol out of whack, and retrospectively, can now appreciate how it affected my interactions with people. Since quitting caffeine and adding in ashwaghanda, I can honestly say I'm a different person. Very interesting to learn that my chemistry rather than psychology was at the root of my experiences.

I had borderline low t4 and high tsh (5-6) when starting TRT. I never felt as I hoped i would on TRT until I ditched caffeine and added NDT and modafinil. Right now I feel better than ever. If you want to feel 'stimulated', caffeine or ritalin might be preferable to you. For me being stimulated means I am not 'myself'. I've really enjoyed being completely calm and yet alert, something I've never managed before.

Do you mind telling me your thyroid protocol? Including brand of your NDT, dosage, timing, and if you’re using T3 as well? Thanks.

 

[dickielongate]

1. Cortisol decreases TSH, lowering thyroid hormone production.

2. Cortisol inhibits the conversion of T4 to active T3, and increases the conversion of T4 to reverse T3.

The other most significant indirect effect the adrenals have on thyroid function is via their influence on blood sugar. High or low cortisol can cause hypoglycemica, hyperglycemia or both. Blood sugar imbalances cause hypothyroid symptoms in a variety of ways.

Cortisol and Thyroid Hormones | Hypothyroid Mom

That is a new angle for me. I've never looked into what the causation might be, but I am aware that hypothyroidism is also strongly associated with insulin resistance.

Do you mind telling me your thyroid protocol? Including brand of your NDT, dosage, timing, and if you’re using T3 as well? Thanks.

I settled on 2 grains (two tablets) per day, in the morning, of Thiroyd brand from Thailand. No extra T3. I tried twice daily dosing, but could not detect any difference.

Finding the dose is quite easy I found. Start with 1 tablet, continue for a couple of weeks, probably to allow for saturation or adaptation, I'm not sure. Then increase by half a tablet every few days until it's too much. You'll know because you'll feel a bit like your body is in overdrive. Incidentally, it doesn't feel like caffeine, it's unpleasant.

Also incidentally, I also got my mother to switch from Levothyroxine (synthetic t4) to NDT, and she has reported a completely new lease of life. Her TSH was perfect on Levo, but she had felt like crap for years and just accepted it.

 

[dikow]

1. Cortisol decreases TSH, lowering thyroid hormone production.

2. Cortisol inhibits the conversion of T4 to active T3, and increases the conversion of T4 to reverse T3.

The other most significant indirect effect the adrenals have on thyroid function is via their influence on blood sugar. High or low cortisol can cause hypoglycemica, hyperglycemia or both. Blood sugar imbalances cause hypothyroid symptoms in a variety of ways.

Cortisol and Thyroid Hormones | Hypothyroid Mom

That was one of the reasons I was thinking of adding some T3 instead of increasing my T4 dose even further.

Check that @captain

 

[captain]

I have read that there is a point with T3 dose you become insulin resistant. I think this is from increase in Cortisol. Cortisol increases with T3 dose if I remember correctly. If you have adrenal insufficiency you need hydrocortisone before you start T3. I am no expert on this by a long shot.
From Phizer
Acute adrenal crisis in patients with concomitant adrenal insufficiency: Treat with replacement glucocorticoids prior to initiation of CYTOMEL treatment.
Worsening of diabetic control: Therapy in patients with diabetes mellitus may worsen glycemic control and result in increased antidiabetic agent or insulin requirements.

http://labeling.pfizer.com/ShowLabeling.aspx?id=703

 

[dickielongate]

I have read that there is a point with T3 dose you become insulin resistant. I think this is from increase in Cortisol. Cortisol increases with T3 dose if I remember correctly. If you have adrenal insufficiency you need hydrocortisone before you start T3. I am no expert on this by a long shot.
From Phizer
Acute adrenal crisis in patients with concomitant adrenal insufficiency: Treat with replacement glucocorticoids prior to initiation of CYTOMEL treatment.
Worsening of diabetic control: Therapy in patients with diabetes mellitus may worsen glycemic control and result in increased antidiabetic agent or insulin requirements.

http://labeling.pfizer.com/ShowLabeling.aspx?id=703

I can well believe that too much T3 pumps your cortisol. After seeing anxiety go down dropping coffee and adding ashwagandha, it was very clear when I went past optimum with the NTD, because the anxiety started appearing again.

I wonder if having both T4 and T3 or NDT, because the body controls the conversion from the T4, it might be more possible to dial in the dose. Perhaps also less peaks and troughs?

Docs will acknowledge adrenal insufficiency, but say it's rare, but many docs deny adrenal fatigue as a fake disease. But cortisol and adrenal disregulation is a real thing for sure and very common, and caffeine is acknowledged to be a big factor for some. I would guess only a tiny minority would need to resort to hydrocortisone.

I believe if you have a chance to fix the basics before turning to intervention you have a much better chance of feeling good. On the other hand use of hormones and drugs to make you feel young again as personal choice seems to attract a lot of moral disapproval.

T3 declines with age, and low T3 in the elderly is associated with worse outcomes from disease, etc. I have come to regard thyroid hormone replacement the same way I see TRT. I believe NDT to be safe and superior to synthetic hormones, and see myself potentially using it as a tool to fight ageing.

 

[dikow]

I have read that there is a point with T3 dose you become insulin resistant. I think this is from increase in Cortisol. Cortisol increases with T3 dose if I remember correctly.

I think cortisol will increase if you have normal thyroid function and add T3, for weight loss for example. However, if you are hypo and add T3, then cortisol will decrease.

When I check my cortisol again I will let you guys know the changes if any.

 

[dikow]

I believe if you have a chance to fix the basics before turning to intervention you have a much better chance of feeling good. On the other hand use of hormones and drugs to make you feel young again as personal choice seems to attract a lot of moral disapproval.

T3 declines with age, and low T3 in the elderly is associated with worse outcomes from disease, etc. I have come to regard thyroid hormone replacement the same way I see TRT. I believe NDT to be safe and superior to synthetic hormones, and see myself potentially using it as a tool to fight ageing.

Seems there is a lot of political correctness with doctors regarding TRT. I was baffled to hear from a doctor that it was absurd to give TRT to men with low T but that she was happy to give testosterone to females who wanna be transgender. Could you believe that!

 

[dikow]

Oh certainly. I tried everything to try to get dialed in on T3 only. At one point I started taking 5mcg at 8, 5mcg at 9, 5mcg at 10, etc. I always got the same reaction. I would be fatigued up until a certain point and then the next 5mcg dose would start feeling hyper symptoms. I don't get the same effect on Armour. With Armour I feel appropriate stimulation on an appropriate dose.

Is it safe to stay on mild hyper symptoms ? I think I prefer to have mild hyper symptoms rather than stay hypo. The fatigue is horrible