Trying to Regain Natural Testosterone After High T Dose Use

[Imashortee]

Okay, hello all. New here, but in dire need of help. So I'm 27 years old, and have used anabolic steroids in the past, but my wife was wanting to conceive a child so I came off. I was on testosterone for approximately 2 years at supraphysiological levels. After coming off, I took a pct of hcg 2000 iu eod for a total of 10 shots, followed by Clomid and Nolvadex therapy, at 50mg and 20mg respectively. After 2 months of being off with ascended testicles and clear semen, I had blood work done.

testosterone serum - 55 (264-916ng/Dl)
Lh - <.2 (1.7-8.6miu/ml)
Fsh - .3 (1.5-12.4miu/ml)
Estradiol - 6.5 (7.6-42.6pg/ml)

So upon learning I was still shut down, I came to the conclusion that running 500iu eod with Nolva 20mg daily should provide a much needed boost and hopefully restore fertility.

After being on this protocol for about a month and few days, I have this updated bloodwork.

Testosterone, serum 233 (264-916)
Lh 0.3 (1.7-8.6)
Fsh 0.9 (1.5-12.4)
Estradiol 6.6 (7.6-42.6)

So it's an increase but I'm still shut down. I just don't know where to go from here. I've been feeling better, and have had improved testicular size and they are hanging low for most parts of the day. If you guys have any input, I am more than willing to consider all advice. I'm currently not on any testosterone, just the hcg and Nolva. Thanks all

 

[Nelson Vergel]

You still have substantial HPTA dysfunction.

Did you take the Clomid in combination with Tamoxifen or one after the other? Exposure time?

Have you considered TRT+ 500 IU every other day of HCG?


There are several protocols to attempt to restore HPTA, but none has been studied in more than a small sample and none have been compared to each other. Factors such as age, whether or not the man had hypogonadism before starting anabolics, whether or not he used HCG with anabolics, and how long he was exposed to anabolics affect results. Some men's testosterone, LH and FSH never return to "normal". Here are a few examples:

 

[madman]

Okay, hello all. New here, but in dire need of help. So I'm 27 years old, and have used anabolic steroids in the past, but my wife was wanting to conceive a child so I came off. I was on testosterone for approximately 2 years at supraphysiological levels. After coming off, I took a pct of hcg 2000 iu eod for a total of 10 shots, followed by Clomid and Nolvadex therapy, at 50mg and 20mg respectively. After 2 months of being off with ascended testicles and clear semen, I had blood work done.

testosterone serum - 55 (264-916ng/Dl)
Lh - <.2 (1.7-8.6miu/ml)
Fsh - .3 (1.5-12.4miu/ml)
Estradiol - 6.5 (7.6-42.6pg/ml)

So upon learning I was still shut down, I came to the conclusion that running 500iu eod with Nolva 20mg daily should provide a much needed boost and hopefully restore fertility.

After being on this protocol for about a month and few days, I have this updated bloodwork.

Testosterone, serum 233 (264-916)
Lh 0.3 (1.7-8.6)
Fsh 0.9 (1.5-12.4)
Estradiol 6.6 (7.6-42.6)

So it's an increase but I'm still shut down. I just don't know where to go from here. I've been feeling better, and have had improved testicular size and they are hanging low for most parts of the day. If you guys have any input, I am more than willing to consider all advice. I'm currently not on any testosterone, just the hcg and Nolva. Thanks all

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4854084/
https://www.researchgate.net/public...pothalamic-Pituitary_Dysfunction_a_Case_Study
http://www.eje-online.org/content/173/2/R47.long
http://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(14)00140-X/fulltext
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4988681/

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Thanks for the references, madman. We should add the protocol used to each one

 

[madman]

Thanks for the references, madman. We should add the protocol used to each one

My pleasure Nelson!

 

[Imashortee]

You still have substantial HPTA dysfunction.

Did you take the Clomid in combination with Tamoxifen or one after the other? Exposure time?

Have you considered TRT+ 500 IU every other day of HCG?


There are several protocols to attempt to restore HPTA, but none has been studied in more than a small sample and none have been compared to each other. Factors such as age, whether or not the man had hypogonadism before starting anabolics, whether or not he used HCG with anabolics, and how long he was exposed to anabolics affect results. Some men's testosterone, LH and FSH never return to "normal". Here are a few examples:





QUOTE]
Hey Nelson, thanks for taking the time to respond. I take the Clomid and tamoxifen together in the morning, and inject 500iu hcg every other night. I have considered doing trt and hcg, but my only real goal is to achieve fertility and conceive a child. And I'm under the impression that suppressing my HPG axis further with anabolics would be counter intuitive. I've already lost 35lbs on this endeavor due to low testosterone, so I'm willing to face those consequences. My testosterone levels were mid 600s before cycling, and I was exposed to testosterone for 2 years, with other substances sporadically throughout, namely nandrolone decanoate and Trenbolone enanthate. Hcg was unfortunately not during this blast. And again, I have no intention of restoring myself to normal levels per say, only what would be necessary for fertility. I have Hmg, hcg, Clomid, nolva, and arimidex available to myself, so I can run nearly any combination that you guys think would help me be successful.

On a side note, because my testosterone quadrupled in a month on hcg, am I correct in thinking that the problem wouldn't necessarily be with my testicles but like you said, rather a suppressed Hpta? Thanks again for responding and offering me insight.

and thank you madman for those links, I read them last night at work. If I'm understanding it correctly, it's that the longer time suppressed, the longer the recovery in those who had no underlying medical reason. But it seems as though fertility was able to be achieved in nearly all of the candidates, though some said it took up to 2 years.

Going forward, I'm just wondering if there is any combination of medications I could be taking to improve my likelihood, and what those options may be. Thanks again both of you, I really appreciate it.

 

[Mr S]

Recovery of spermatogenesis following testosterone replacement therapy or anabolic-androgenic steroid use
(PDF) Androgenic Anabolic Steroid Use and Severe Hypothalamic-Pituitary Dysfunction: a Case Study
http://www.eje-online.org/content/173/2/R47.long
http://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(14)00140-X/fulltext
Former Abusers of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids Exhibit Decreased Testosterone Levels and Hypogonadal Symptoms Years after Cessation: A Case-Control Study[/
I’m just curious, does HCG monotherapy cause HPTA dysfunction? Does HCG shuts you down as well?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Yes, HCG shuts down LH and FSH contrary to what most doctors think. It can increase sperm count as monotherapy in some men using 1500 IU three times per week.

 

[Mr S]

Yes, HCG shuts down LH and FSH contrary to what most doctors think. It can increase sperm count as monotherapy in some men using 1500 IU three times per week.

What happens when HCG is part of my TRT protocol? 100mg T Cypionate once a week with 500iu HCG EOD? The Cypionate suppresses LH hence the HCG mimics LH to maintain stimulation which helps the testicles to produce endogenous T. Why is in this case beneficial?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

What happens when HCG is part of my TRT protocol? 100mg T Cypionate once a week with 500iu HCG EOD? The Cypionate suppresses LH hence the HCG mimics LH to maintain stimulation which helps the testicles to produce endogenous T. Why is in this case beneficial?

Read these two. They explain why hCG is beneficial to increase testosterone inside testicles:

Best HCG Dose for Men on TRT: Two Studies That Used HCG with Testosterone

HCG Use in Men on Testosterone: How to Determine the Right Dose

 

[Mr S]

Read these two. They explain why hCG is beneficial to increase testosterone inside testicles:

Best HCG Dose for Men on TRT: Two Studies That Used HCG with Testosterone

HCG Use in Men on Testosterone: How to Determine the Right Dose

I will. thanks a bundle!

 

[Mr S]

What happens when HCG is part of my TRT protocol? 100mg T Cypionate once a week with 500iu HCG EOD? The Cypionate suppresses LH hence the HCG mimics LH to maintain stimulation which helps the testicles to produce endogenous T. Why is in this case beneficial?

Read these two. They explain why hCG is beneficial to increase testosterone inside testicles:

Best HCG Dose for Men on TRT: Two Studies That Used HCG with Testosterone

HCG Use in Men on Testosterone: How to Determine the Right Dose

i read both. Since I’m not trying to preserve fertility, I gather that I only need 500iu of HCG twice a week to prevent testicular atrophy, correct? I find my dose of HCG 500iu EOD unnecessary to be honest.