TRT & Pheromones (Question for the Ladies, Especially)

[ClashCityRocker]

A while back, I read a thread about how sterilization through vasectomy changed (or reduced) a guy's pheromones so markedly that some women completely lost interest in their mates. The accounts were all anecdotal, but for some women, apparently, this is a very big deal. Some even claimed they could tell immediately when a guy has had a vasectomy.

My question: Since long-term supplemental T will eventually render a guy sterile, has anybody noticed the same phenomenon?

 

[ClashCityRocker]

Here's the post to which I was referring: Anecdotal accounts of women with regards to their experiences with men who've had vasectomies

 

[Jucaro]

I haven't read any studies on this topic, but from personal experience I believe that pheromones depend on testosterone itself, or its synthesis in the testicle. When I first hugged and kissed my current wife, about 4 years ago, she tells me that she was caught by my scent and despite it being the first time, she felt an attraction and an irresistible desire to be hugging me and smelling me (I never used perfume or any artificial scent) and that produced a strong sexual arousal for her. Since then she has been addicted to my skin. I was on TRT (87.5 mg a week) and HCG at 250 mg twice a week at that time. On a couple of occasions since I've been with her I have stopped TRT and HCG, and she tells me that then my skin becomes neutral and she stops perceiving what she used to.
Having said this, I don't understand how a vasectomy could have that effect, if it doesn't produce any kind of endocrine change.

 

[Phil Goodman]

Here's the post to which I was referring: Anecdotal accounts of women with regards to their experiences with men who've had vasectomies

Didn’t see anything in there that suggested it was due to pheromones. I think this statement pretty much nails it.


“The raw possibility that I could be filled with a child by his semen is gone. My body doesn't crave his fluids at all.”



It’s more likely to be a psychological thing than a physiological thing. Obviously this is just anecdotal, but I had a vasectomy years ago and have always had a great sex life with my partner. I’m also pretty certain that my pheromones never took a hit. And now that I’m on trt they are definitely strong. Only way to test it would be to have strangers try to pick out the person who has had one and see if the results are significantly more accurate than what could be attributed to guessing.

 

[ClashCityRocker]

Maybe pheromones is not the right term. But there is something apparently physical going on for some of these folks. I don't think anybody would argue that a person's sense of smell, and the perceptions that go along with that, is part of of sexual attraction. And at least some of the women argue that changed after a guy's vasectomy (although whether or not that's attached to sterility, per se, is speculation). Somebody mentioned "NGF, a powerful protein that triggers fertility and sexual interest in females," as a possible factor.

Then again, as Jucaro mentioned, it could also be that TRT is actually beneficial in this regard (although how HCG figures into the equation is another consideration).

As to the psychological point, it's easy to see it going both ways. It would be interesting to compare women who are and are not in their childbearing years to see if there was any difference in reaction. It seemed like most of the women in that thread were still of childbearing age.

I don't have any particular theory or ax to grind. But the premise of those stories is potentially very significant, even if the risk is highly variable. Considering how much more popular vasectomies and TRT are becoming, it would be worth investigating as a possible component of informed consent.

 

[Phil Goodman]

Maybe pheromones is not the right term. But there is something apparently physical going on for some of these folks. I don't think anybody would argue that a person's sense of smell, and the perceptions that go along with that, is part of of sexual attraction. And at least some of the women argue that changed after a guy's vasectomy (although whether or not that's attached to sterility, per se, is speculation).

And, as Jucaro mentioned, it could also be that TRT is actually beneficial in this regard (although how HCG figures into the equation is a another consideration).

As to the psychological point, it's easy to see it going both ways. It would be interesting to compare women who are and are not in their childbearing years to see if there was any difference in reaction. It seemed like most of the women in that thread were still of childbearing age.

I don't have any particular theory or ax to grind. But the premise of those stories is potentially very significant, even if the risk is highly variable. Considering how much more popular vasectomies and TRT are becoming, it would be worth investigating as a possible component of informed consent.

I tend to prefer studies that don’t rely on questionnaires, but not really sure how you could study this topic without that approach. Here’s a study that showed satisfaction significantly improved in men across most or all metrics, but was pretty much unchanged for women (except in arousal where it got a little better…which is contradictory to the claims made on the forums you shared).

Impact of vasectomy on the sexual satisfaction of couples: experience from a specialized clinic

Vasectomy is the simplest, safest, and most effective form of definitive fertility control in men [1]. Vasectomy is used for 10% of contraception worldwide but only for 2% in Germany [2]. The aim of this study was to investigate the impact of vasectomy ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And another one

The effect of vasectomy on the sexual life of couples - PubMed

This is the first report to our very best knowledge that showed the positive impact of vasectomy on sexual satisfaction of couples. Vasectomy is a safe operation with minimal complication rates.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Not to say it doesn’t negatively impact some females, but it would hard to quantify the rates at which it diminishes and rates at which it helps. Lots of indicators that it generally helps more than hurts though, which could be for various reasons. Besides the obvious ones of no need for condoms or fear of pregnancy, I imagine a lot of women come off of birth control when their partner has a vasectomy. For some women birth control hinders sex drive, for some it helps, and for some there is no obvious difference…so the impact would come down to how it affects that individual.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

This is likely another case where multiple pathways are involved. Women can apparently sense men who have compatible genes. Women's senses may be compromised by hormonal birth control however as described in the book "Your Brain on The Pill". We likely understand very little of what is going on so caution is the best course of action. There are many anecdotal reports of Trenbolone having a very noticeable effect on women's attraction.