Trt not working, low SHBG

[brunoreus]

Test cyp 20mg subq daily
HCG 500iu mondays and fridays



Yes I also feel effects 2-3 weeks into any protocol change but they are usually negative. Fatigue, a little depression, and up and down energy. Things start to go positively for me around week 5-6. I hate changing my protocol and the last time I did was the most brutal which was EOD to ED. I was massively depressed around week 3. Felt like a zombie.

Ok so you are not taking AI, no problem with E?
I will consider HCG, for the moment im taking clomid 25mg daily because im very worried about fertility and I have proved in my labs that clomid raises my LH and FSH.
Probably when I find a protocol that works finally, I will switch to HCG.
Also hearing opinions about this

 

[jronly11]

Yes my e2 was at 60 and i reduced my t dose from 40 mg eod to 34 mgs to bring it down. It went down to 45 but I had good and bad days on that protocol. Ive yet to do labs on my current daily protocol which Ive been on since Nov '19.

 

[Systemlord]

Ok, now I dont know if I should change from IM to subq, and also from E to C hahaha. Today was mas 13th day into daily IM 15mg ENantste injections.

You just need to have patience and not change things too often or you are going to be dialing in 6 months from now with nothing to show for it. You only just started a new protocol 13 days ago and already you are thinking about going from Test E to Test C and going from IM to SQ and none of these changes will lead to immediate relief as you will still have to wait 6 weeks for hormone levels to stabilize.

Let's say you change to Test C, you just hit the reset button and another 6 weeks till levels stabilize, half way through this change you want to try SQ, hit the reset button again and another 6 weeks, before you know 6 months has gone by and you don't feel any better and is when guys start thinking about quitting TRT and performing a restart.

A year later after the restart fails they are ready to accept reality and you have come full circle and you are right back where you started.

This process is a marathon, not a sprint.

Half lives of medications. Most underrated aspect of TRT

 

[brunoreus]

You just need to have patience and not change things too often or you are going to be dialing in 6 months from now with nothing to show for it. This process is a marathon, not a sprint.

Question, if I take HCG instead of clomid, wont my FSH be at 0 with the possibility of not restarting? Because clomid raises both Lh and Fsh, i like the HCG option tho

 

[brunoreus]

Yes my e2 was at 60 and i reduced my t dose from 40 mg eod to 34 mgs to bring it down. It went down to 45 but I had good and bad days on that protocol. Ive yet to do labs on my current daily protocol which Ive been on since Nov '19.

Understand, so you changed to dailies basically to control E?

 

[Systemlord]

Question, if I take HCG instead of clomid, wont my FSH be at 0 with the possibility of not restarting? Because clomid raises both Lh and Fsh, i like the HCG option tho

HCG mimics LH and stimulates LH receptors, if FSH is too low to be useful for sperm then there is always FSH injections.

 

[jronly11]

Understand, so you changed to dailies basically to control E?

Not really i changed it to dailies because of all the reading I've done here and other forums that suggest low shbg guys do better on dailies. Im hoping that my e2 is under control but I doubt it. I get really bad anxiety here and there but when I don't have bouts I feel awesome. Good mood, great sex drive, and full of energy. By the way one of the symptoms that I had pre-trt was insomnia which disappeared after I started trt. It was the first thing I noticed when I jumped on. I can fall asleep most days easily now.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

If you had low SHBG prior to taking testosterone then you have insulin resistance. It's virtually guaranteed. Fix that, and you fix the low SHBG problem which in turn makes TRT drastically more effective.

 

[brunoreus]

If you had low SHBG prior to taking testosterone then you have insulin resistance. It's virtually guaranteed. Fix that, and you fix the low SHBG problem which in turn makes TRT drastically more effective.

Yes I did have SHBG 15 pre Trt, Im 20 years old tho, do you think that may be the reason or just genetics? If you fix insulin resistance SHBG raises to normal levels?
Ps: Im not obese by any means. I have regular body fat. I make this clear because I have also read an association between low shbg, low insulin resistance and obesity.
Thank you.

 

[brunoreus]

You just need to have patience and not change things too often or you are going to be dialing in 6 months from now with nothing to show for it. You only just started a new protocol 13 days ago and already you are thinking about going from Test E to Test C and going from IM to SQ and none of these changes will lead to immediate relief as you will still have to wait 6 weeks for hormone levels to stabilize.

Let's say you change to Test C, you just hit the reset button and another 6 weeks till levels stabilize, half way through this change you want to try SQ, hit the reset button again and another 6 weeks, before you know 6 months has gone by and you don't feel any better and is when guys start thinking about quitting TRT and performing a restart.

A year later after the restart fails they are ready to accept reality and you have come full circle and you are right back where you started.

This process is a marathon, not a sprint.

Half lives of medications. Most underrated aspect of TRT

Im tempted into switching from Im to subq since most protocols I have read from low shbg guys use subq, do you think I would loose the 2 weeks i have been into daily IM if I do this or its reasonable to think it will couple as part of the same protocol?

 

[Systemlord]

Im tempted into switching from Im to subq since most protocols I have read from low shbg guys use subq, do you think I would loose the 2 weeks i have been into daily IM if I do this or its reasonable to think it will couple as part of the same protocol?

I don't know where you read this, but my advice is research a little more. I have low SHBG and tried SQ, it's like the entire shot converted to estrogen and was a horrible experience. If you have a high body fat percentage I would pass on it on SQ.

Changing from IM to SQ will amount to a protocol change because the way T is released via SQ and things will change forcing your body to re-adapt. You will be starting over from scratch and these last 2 weeks never happened.

 

[AndrogenHacker]

Jist curious, what's your lifestyle like?

Diet?
Exercise?
Do you take any supplements?

 

[Jason Sypolt]

Yes I did have SHBG 15 pre Trt, Im 20 years old tho, do you think that may be the reason or just genetics? If you fix insulin resistance SHBG raises to normal levels?
Ps: Im not obese by any means. I have regular body fat. I make this clear because I have also read an association between low shbg, low insulin resistance and obesity.
Thank you.

It's really an association between SHBG and IR and not bodyfat. I was not fat either, and I had perfectly normal glucose and A1c as well. Check your fasting insulin and thyroid (TSH, Free T3, Free T4, Reverse T3). You will probably be shocked. The normal range for insulin is BS just like with testosterone. Fasting insulin should be less than 8 mIU/L and the normal range goes up to 25. And the normal ranges for thyroid labs aren't very good either.

I had to get my thyroid working properly and that nearly tripled my SHBG to 25, but my insulin was still high. So I was put on additional anabolics and that along with continuing to improve diet has finally knocked down my insulin. It was an entirely invisible problem. I had to inject T every day (twice at one point), dosing, micro-dosing, creams all day, all kinds of other things and none of it felt good until I fixed the IR. Trying to work around low SHBG is just treating the symptom - the very same thing that infuriates people who came from traditional healthcare, and it rarely works.

 

[hardrlz]

It's really an association between SHBG and IR and not bodyfat. I was not fat either, and I had perfectly normal glucose and A1c as well. Check your fasting insulin and thyroid (TSH, Free T3, Free T4, Reverse T3). You will probably be shocked. The normal range for insulin is BS just like with testosterone. Fasting insulin should be less than 8 mIU/L and the normal range goes up to 25. And the normal ranges for thyroid labs aren't very good either.

I had to get my thyroid working properly and that nearly tripled my SHBG to 25, but my insulin was still high. So I was put on additional anabolics and that along with continuing to improve diet has finally knocked down my insulin. It was an entirely invisible problem. I had to inject T every day (twice at one point), dosing, micro-dosing, creams all day, all kinds of other things and none of it felt good until I fixed the IR. Trying to work around low SHBG is just treating the symptom - the very same thing that infuriates people who came from traditional healthcare, and it rarely works.

By "none of it felt good" you mean you didnt experience any positive effect at all , or it was inconsistent ? Also how long were you on a diet for your IR to improve ?

 

[brunoreus]

It's really an association between SHBG and IR and not bodyfat. I was not fat either, and I had perfectly normal glucose and A1c as well. Check your fasting insulin and thyroid (TSH, Free T3, Free T4, Reverse T3). You will probably be shocked. The normal range for insulin is BS just like with testosterone. Fasting insulin should be less than 8 mIU/L and the normal range goes up to 25. And the normal ranges for thyroid labs aren't very good either.

I had to get my thyroid working properly and that nearly tripled my SHBG to 25, but my insulin was still high. So I was put on additional anabolics and that along with continuing to improve diet has finally knocked down my insulin. It was an entirely invisible problem. I had to inject T every day (twice at one point), dosing, micro-dosing, creams all day, all kinds of other things and none of it felt good until I fixed the IR. Trying to work around low SHBG is just treating the symptom - the very same thing that infuriates people who came from traditional healthcare, and it rarely works.

How did you fix the IR?
What was your shbg before and after fixing it?

 

[Jason Sypolt]

By "none of it felt good" you mean you didnt experience any positive effect at all , or it was inconsistent ? Also how long were you on a diet for your IR to improve ?

Both, but I was mostly feeling no positive benefit at all. I changed my diet slowly because that was easier - 6-7 months. Cut back on sugar, pasta, noodles, potatoes, breads, and I don't eat rice that often. I drink carbonated water instead of soft drinks although Nelson and I split a Coke on Saturday. It's hard at first, especially the first 2 weeks. But after several months you look at that stuff and it doesn't even sound good. Diet or "Eating clean" is very important, but you are mostly going to end up frustrated and give up unless your body is working properly and your hormones are balanced.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

How did you fix the IR?
What was your shbg before and after fixing it?

It was 8-10 before. 25 now.

T3 (Cytomel/Liothyronine) fixed my thyroid.

Nandrolone increased lean body mass which increases metabolism and helps burn fat.

And Stanozolol will burn fat rather quickly.

Getting proper labs to monitor and measure everything.

 

[brunoreus]

Both, but I was mostly feeling no positive benefit at all. I changed my diet slowly because that was easier - 6-7 months. Cut back on sugar, pasta, noodles, potatoes, breads, and I don't eat rice that often. I drink carbonated water instead of soft drinks although Nelson and I split a Coke on Saturday. It's hard at first, especially the first 2 weeks. But after several months you look at that stuff and it doesn't even sound good. Diet or "Eating clean" is very important, but you are mostly going to end up frustrated and give up unless your body is working properly and your hormones are balanced.

So you raise your SHBG only with diet? How much?

 

[jronly11]

Luckily that's not the case for everyone with low shbg. My shbg is also real low (10) but I feel the effects of trt strongly wih EOD and definitely ED. But now I want to check my thyroid and IR.

 

[brunoreus]

HCG mimics LH and stimulates LH receptors, if FSH is too low to be useful for sperm then there is always FSH injections.

What dose of HCG do you recommend me if I am in 15mg T daily? Also, what does IU mean? Because I keep reading that on HCG, is 500 IU = 0.5 mililiters? Sorry for the ignorance on the topic